James Nederlander to the stand. Examination by For IRS Donna Hubert For Estate Avram Salkin Q: Good afternoon, Mr Nederlander, first I want to thank you for being here. ?????????????????????????????????????????? A.???? Los Angeles, New New York, Chicago.??? Chicago.????? ?? And I grew up in>>>>>???? in>>>>>???? Q. So after you education, did you become involved in the family business A. Yes Q. And so erm, Tell me a little bit about your grandfather and what he did? A: My grandfather grandfather ran ran a theater theater in Detroit. Detroit. And he produce produced d plays. Q: And did move to the east coast or did he stay in Detroit A: He stayed stayed in Detroit. Detroit. Q: Okay. And then did he start the Nederlander Organization? A: He started the Nederlander Nederlander organizat organization, ion, yeah. Q: Okay. And then did other family members become involved in the business? A: Correct. Q. Siblings or other family memebers A/ No, my grandfather grandfathers s siblings siblings no, My father father was the primary one and his his brothers brothers
were involved, as well. Q: What was your father involvement would have been? A: He ran everything. From working under my grandfather to expanding the company, moving it to New York, producing shows. He would go the New york to get show to come to Detroit,, extend to Los Angeles and Chicago. Q: Did your organization acquire ownership of theaters? A: Yes. Q: In what cities. A: Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, San Diego, London. Q: And today, how many theaters does the Nederlander Organization own? A. laughs Q. Approximately A. About, twenty seven. Q: And the Nederlander Organization produces shows? A: Yes Q: Okay, And so are these shows on Broadway? A: Most of them are. Some of them are no longer with us. Q: ok. Can you name some of the shows that the Nederlander organization produced? A: Under my father's office?
Q: Either your father or yourself. A: Annie, In Sympathy, Movin' Out, On Your Feet!, (????), Romeo and Juliet...more, and others, as well. Q: Okay thank you. Can you tell us a little about the process of deveopng a braodway play or show? A: Well there's a lot of different ways to do that. One, you can go see a show at a particular venue around the world and say this is something I realy want to bring to New York. ..Or you can create it from the beginning. Q: And have you done both of those? A: Yes. Q: Can you give some examples of some of those. A: Umm, I saw The Man Bradley cooper up in Williamstown...went up there and told Bradley , “This is an amazing show production. Please come to New York”. We talked about it, six months later he decided 'yes'. ..My father saw Nicholas Nickleby in London, he thought it was something that may never make money but yet America probably should see it..and it did come to New York and it was a masterpiece. Umm, I have approached certain artists to ask to see if their catalog might be available to make a musical, or certain books that may be interesting as a play or a musical. So, it really expands from finding something that you really like, to creating something that you really like. Q: And have you done musicals?
A: Yes. Q: Do you remember any of the names of the musicals? A: On Your Feet! Q: And what is On Your Feet! ? A: On Your Feet! is the story of Emilio and Gloria Estefan. From where they began to where they are now. Q: Okay. And is that show is still playing? A: It is. Q: Now, did there come a time in 2008 where you were approached to do a Michael Jackson-themed Broadway show? A: Correct. Q: And who contacted you? A: Peter Lopez. Q: And who is Peter Lopez? A: He was the attorney for Michael Jackson..at the time. Q: Okay, and did you know him from before? A: Yeah, I knew him periodically, on and off, you we'd be in sort of places but I cant remember Q: You knew who he was?
A: Yeah. Q: And what did he tell you when he called.. did he call you? A: Yes, he did. Q: Okay, and what did he say? A: He said would you like to make a musical out of Michael Jackson’s music? Q: And what did you say? A: Sure! Q: Okay, then what happened after that? A: Well uhh, eventually I met Michael. And we talked a little bit about an idea. And then...nothing, basically. Q: It didn't come to pass? A: No. Q: No. Okay. Did you come to Los Angeles to discuss a possible project this..for a Broadway show? A: Yes. Q: And did you have a meeting or meetings- A: With? Q: With Mr. Lopez? A: He pretty much came to New York.
Q: Did you also fly to L.A.? A: Um-hum. Q: Did you go to the Bel-Air Hotel? A: Yes. Q: Did you have a meeting at the Bel-Air Hotel? A: Yes, I did. Q: Do you remember who was there? A: Michael Jackson and Peter Lopez. Q: And did you..Was Tohme Tohme at the meeting? A: Yes, yes, he was there, as well. I actually met him before I met Michael through Peter Lopez at the Bel-Air Hotel. Q: And did you work out a deal memorandum recording the proposed show? A: Eventually. Donna Hubert: Exhibit-- may I approach the witness, Your Honor? Judge: Yes. Donna Hubert: Let the record reflect I have just given-Exhibit 19J. to the witness and it is also up there in front of you on the large screen. A.Okay. Q: Do you recognize this doc ument?
A: Yes, I do. Q: Can you look at the page that's numbered page 10. A: Um-hum. Q: Is that your signature on the document? A: It is, yes. Q: Is this the deal memorandum that you were working on with Michael Jackson? A: Yes. Q: Now I believe that when we met in New York ..you would ask about shows, correct? A: I do believe that one should talk to a neighbor or someone and try to explain to them what a show's about because that gives you a decent sign whether they're interested in it or not. Q: And did you ever do that for this show? A: Uhhh, no because we didn't finish any deal so I (????). Q: Okay. Now if you would look at page 6 of the deal memorandum, the section that says 'credit'. Just take a minute and look that over. …..So, did this agreement, are you done looking over that A. ..No……. Okay Q. Albright so did the deal memorandum provide for Michael Jackson to be listed in the credits of a Broadway play?
A: Sure. Yes. Q: And did it also require the use of his moniker: 'The King Of Pop'? A: Say that again, I'm sorry. Q: Well, okay. Let me rephrase that. And was it required that all press releases include the moniker: 'The King Of Pop'? A: It says it here, but you know, we never had a deal so nothing was really authenticated from this. Q: Did any money change hands because of this deal memorandum? A: No. Q: At the time that you were talking to Michael Jackson, Tohme Tohme and Peter Lopez and signing this deal memorandum, did you have any concerns about Michael Jackson’s image? A: No. Q: And at the time that you were signing this deal memorandum, were you concerned about the allegations that were made against Michael Jackson? A: No. Q: Why not? A: He had a great catalog. So.. it didn’t bother me. Q: Okay. Did you believe a Michael Jackson show coul d be successful?
A: Um, I'm going to quote my father who is no longer with us. He would always say, “Son, no one can pick a hit or a flop”. So.. I have no idea if this would have been successful or not. HE would have no idea if it would be a success or not. He was alive when they were doing this and HE didn't know. No one knows. Q: What about with respect to other Broadway shows? Do you ever know? A: No. Q: What about something like Hamilton- A: (Congratulations????) Q: --were you (sure of????) of Hamilton? (lots of laughter in court) Q: I didn't mean to cut off your answer, what did you say? A: No um, we were just an investor. But I didn't know what it was going to be. Q: So there was no guarantee that Hamilton would be a success? A: No. ..Look, no guarantees. My father, again, would say, “How do you become a millionaire in the theater business? Start off as a billionaire.” (laughter in court) Q: So, did anybody else in your company have a concern about Michael Jackson’s image or allegations? A: No.
Q: At the time that you entered this deal memorandum, if you remember, was there anything going on in London that you needed to consider or think about? A: Yeah, there was a Michael Jackson musical that was going on. Q: And were you concerned about that? A: A little bit, a little bit. But then I saw it, and it was not really concerning. ***(Howard Weitzman sniggers)**** Q: So that didn’t deter you. A: No. Q: Alright. And did any complications arise as you started to consider this deal, were there any problems with Rod Temperton, or..? A: No, we were just in the negotiation process with him. You know, how he feels, We were in the process of making deals. Q: Okay, so what happened after that? Did the deal proceed, did it consummate? A: After what? Q: After you entered the deal memorandum? A: No. Q: And Michael Jackson died. A: Correct. Q: When he died did it cancel the project or put it on hold or what happened?
A: I don’t actually remember, it just, there was.. I don’t know. I don’t remember, it just STOPPED. Q: Alright. After he died you were still interested in producing a Michael Jacksonthemed Broadway show? A: Yes. Q: Did you discuss it with with the Michael Jackson's Estate, at all? A: ..Not really, I mean, no. Q: Did the Estate seem interested in moving forward with a Michael Jackson Broadway show? A: I don’t know if they did it or not, everything kind of just went to a standstill. ...A lot of this I don't remember anymore.. it just kind of (????). Q: Do you remember if your, if the Nederlander Organization fil ed a lawsuit against the Estate? A: I think that was our attorney at the time..and I don't recall exactly what the lawsuit was about, (????) Q: Would you have seen the complaint that- A: --I might have but I, I didn't really…. Donna Hubert:: Okay. May I approach? Judge: You may. Q: Let the record reflect, exhibit 31J, to the witness and to the Court in the first
stipulation of fact. If you could just take a moment to look at the document and see if it refreshes your memory? A: It looks familiar but I don’t remember any details here. Q: Do you know whatever the outcome was of this particular complaint? A: I don’t remember. Q: Okay. ..Would you still be interested in doing a Michael Jackson Broadway show today? A: Sure. Yes. Donna Hubert: Alright. I have no further questions. Judge: okay we go to cross examination Howard Weitzman: Just so you know, I can tell you what happened in the lawsuit. If you want to hear it. Judge: ...No. (laughter in court) CROSS EXAMINATION BY HOWARD WEITZMAN FOR JOHN BRA NCA
Q: So um, this Broadway deal memorandum for the potential Broadway play was for a musical stage play based on Michael Jackson and others' catalogs of music, correct? A: Correct. Q: I don't have any further questions, thank you. ..Nice to see ya.
Judge: This broadway show was going to have songs and other performers? A: Correct. Voth: Your Honor, the witness is excused. Judge: Oh he is (Break)
