Seferis interviewed by Edmond Keeley Art of poetry 13 Paris Review 50 (1970
Seferis was nearing the end of his longest visit to the United States at the time of this interview, which took place in late December of 1968. He had !st completed a three"month term as fellow of the #nstit!te for $dvanced St!d% in &rinceton, and he was in partic!larl% good spirits beca!se he felt that his visit had served for a kind of re!venation' an interl!de free from the political tensions that had been b!ilding !p for some months in $thens and the occasion for both reflection and performance. (he latter incl!ded a series of of readings)at Harvard, &rinceton, *!tgers, &ittsb!rgh, +ashington, D.., and the -H$ &oetr% enter in /ew -ork) Seferis reading in 0reek and the interviewer in nglish, each appearance with its distinct 2!alities of e3citement and response. #n &ittsb!rgh, for e3ample, the a!dience 4composed mostl% of local 0reek"$mericans5 seemed bewildered b% the poetr% d!ring the reading b!t responded to the poet d!ring the reception afterward as the% might to 0reeces e3iled king. (he /ew -ork reading began with an introd!ction b% Senator !gene carth%. D!ring the disc!ssion period several 2!estions from the a!dience had to do specificall% with the political sit!ation in 0reece. Seferis ref!sed to answer them. He was tho!ght to be evasive b% some in the a!dience, b!t he held his gro!nd, and d!ring the dinner following the reading he gave his reasons in private' He didnt consider it proper to critici7e his government while a g!est on foreign soil, safel% o!tside the bo!ndaries of the governments displeas!re. He saved his answers for his ret!rn to 0reece' an !ncompromising statement against the dictatorship presented to local and foreign correspondents in defiance of martial law and at obvio!s personal risk 4 The New York Times, Times, arch 9, 19695. (he combination of diplomatic tact and high conscience that defines the political character of Seferis also colors his presence and personal st%le. He is a heav% man, his voice gentle when disengaged, his movements slow, almost lethargic at times %et he has a habit of gripping %o!r arm as he moves, and the grip, tho!gh amiable in the old"fashioned !ropean manner, remains %o!ng and firm eno!gh to give %o! word of the strength still in him. $nd the voice voice has a second edge that c!ts sharpl% when he senses something d!bio!s or facile challenging it. (hen, on the diplomatic side again, comes a sense of h!mor' a love of nonsense, of the ris2!: oke, of kidding himself and others with a wr% little moon of a smile that appears !ne3pectedl% in his oval face)
especiall% after hes trapped his listener with the 2!estion' ;+h% are %o! la!ghing<= $n $merican poet once referred to him as a ;iddle"astern troglod%te= troglod%te= in a poem abo!t his first reading in /ew -ork some %ears ago. +hen the interviewer finall% got !p the co!rage to show him the poem, Seferis fi3ed him with a sharp, !ncompromising look. ;iddle"astern troglod%te. *idic!lo!s and inacc!rate. # once called m%self a appadocian troglod%te, and that is what # plan to remain. +h% are %o! la!ghing<= (hen the smile. (he interview took place in the Seferis temporar% home at the #nstit!te for $dvanced St!d%, an !npretentio!s second"floor apartment with three rooms, with a large window overlooking the gro!nds, the bookcase almost empt%, none of the modern 0reek paintings and classical treas!res that set the st%le of the Seferis home in $thens. -et the poet was delighted with the place beca!se it gave him access to a n!mber of e3otic things' changing trees, and s2!irrels, and children crossing the lawn from school. His wife aro)hair still gold and braided like a girls) was present thro!gho!t the interview, sometimes listening with apparent am!sement, sometimes preparing food or drinks in the backgro!nd. (here were three recording sessions. Seferis wo!ld take a while to warm !p with the microphone watching him from the coffee table, b!t whenever he began to reminisce abo!t friends from the war %ears %ears and before)Henr% iller, D!rrell, >atsimbalis)or the %ears of his childhood, he wo!ld rela3 into his nat!ral st%le and talk easil% !ntil the tape died o!t on him.
#/(*?#+* @et me start b% asking %o! abo!t the #nstit!te for $dvanced St!d% and how %o! feel, onl% recentl% retired from the diplomatic service, abo!t beginning a new career as a st!dent. 0A*0 SB*#S % dear, the problem which p!77les me is' +hat is advanced st!d%< Sho!ld one tr% to forget, or to learn more, when one is at m% stage of advanced st!d%< /ow # m!st sa%, on a more prosaic level, that # eno% ver% m!ch the whole sit!ation here beca!se there are ver% nice people, ver% good friends, and # eno%)how eno%)how shall # p!t it<)their hori7ons. hori7ons. (here are man% hori7ons aro!nd me' science, histor%, archaeolog%, theolog%, philosoph% . . . #/(*?#+*
especiall% after hes trapped his listener with the 2!estion' ;+h% are %o! la!ghing<= $n $merican poet once referred to him as a ;iddle"astern troglod%te= troglod%te= in a poem abo!t his first reading in /ew -ork some %ears ago. +hen the interviewer finall% got !p the co!rage to show him the poem, Seferis fi3ed him with a sharp, !ncompromising look. ;iddle"astern troglod%te. *idic!lo!s and inacc!rate. # once called m%self a appadocian troglod%te, and that is what # plan to remain. +h% are %o! la!ghing<= (hen the smile. (he interview took place in the Seferis temporar% home at the #nstit!te for $dvanced St!d%, an !npretentio!s second"floor apartment with three rooms, with a large window overlooking the gro!nds, the bookcase almost empt%, none of the modern 0reek paintings and classical treas!res that set the st%le of the Seferis home in $thens. -et the poet was delighted with the place beca!se it gave him access to a n!mber of e3otic things' changing trees, and s2!irrels, and children crossing the lawn from school. His wife aro)hair still gold and braided like a girls) was present thro!gho!t the interview, sometimes listening with apparent am!sement, sometimes preparing food or drinks in the backgro!nd. (here were three recording sessions. Seferis wo!ld take a while to warm !p with the microphone watching him from the coffee table, b!t whenever he began to reminisce abo!t friends from the war %ears %ears and before)Henr% iller, D!rrell, >atsimbalis)or the %ears of his childhood, he wo!ld rela3 into his nat!ral st%le and talk easil% !ntil the tape died o!t on him.
#/(*?#+* @et me start b% asking %o! abo!t the #nstit!te for $dvanced St!d% and how %o! feel, onl% recentl% retired from the diplomatic service, abo!t beginning a new career as a st!dent. 0A*0 SB*#S % dear, the problem which p!77les me is' +hat is advanced st!d%< Sho!ld one tr% to forget, or to learn more, when one is at m% stage of advanced st!d%< /ow # m!st sa%, on a more prosaic level, that # eno% ver% m!ch the whole sit!ation here beca!se there are ver% nice people, ver% good friends, and # eno%)how eno%)how shall # p!t it<)their hori7ons. hori7ons. (here are man% hori7ons aro!nd me' science, histor%, archaeolog%, theolog%, philosoph% . . . #/(*?#+*
C!t dont %o! feel o!t of place among so man% scientists< So man% historians< SB*#S /o, beca!se # am attracted b% people whose interests are not in m% own area. #/(*?#+* Do %o! think theres an advantage)as # think avaf% wo!ld probabl% have tho!ght)to being in dialog!e with historians< #n other words, do %o! feel that histor% has something partic!lar to sa% to the poet< SB*#S #f %o! remember, avaf% was proud was proud of of having a sense of histor%. He !sed to sa%' ;# am a man of histor%=)something like that, # dont remember the e3act 2!otation. # am not that wa% b!t still, # feel the press!re of histor%. #n another another wa%, perhaps' more m%thological, more abstract, or more concrete . . . # dont know. #/(*?#+* How abo!t the relation of the 0reek poet to his partic!lar historical tradition< -o! once said that there is no ancient 0reece in 0reece. +hat did %o! mean b% that e3actl%< SB*#S # meant 0reece is a contin!o!s process. #n nglish the e3pression ;ancient 0reece= incl!des the meaning of ;finished,= whereas for !s 0reece goes on living, for better or for worse it is in in life, life, has not e3pired %et. (hat is a fact. Ane can make the same arg!ment when one disc!sses the pron!nciation of ancient 0reek. -o!r scholars in $merica or in ngland or in Brance ma% be 2!ite right in adopting the rasmic pron!nciation' for them 0reek is a dead lang!age b!t for !s it is another stor%. (he fact is, %o! consider that ancient 0reek has terminated its f!nction at a certain point, and this enables %o! to prono!nce it)with m% regrets )in an arbitrar% wa%. #/(*?#+*
(hen %o! obvio!sl% see the 0reek tradition in lang!age, as well as in other things, as a contin!o!s process. (hat is not the belief of some classical and C%7antine scholars in this co!ntr%)and, # s!ppose, elsewhere. SB*#S -o! know wh% that happens< Ceca!se the s!bect, the histor%, of 0reece is so large that each scholar limits himself to a certain period or branch, and nothing e3ists o!tside of it. Bor e3ample, 0ibbon considered that a tho!sand %ears of life were a decline. How can a people be in decline for a tho!sand %ears< $fter all, between the Homeric poems and the birth of hrist eight h!ndred %ears elapsed)or something like that)and then pres!mabl% there were a tho!sand %ears of decline. #/(*?#+* An the 2!estion of the 0reek poets relation to his tradition, it has alwa%s seemed to me that the 0reek poet has an advantage over his $nglo"Sa3on co!nterpart who makes !se of 0reek m%tholog% and sometimes even of 0reek landscape. # remember %ears ago when # was writing a thesis on what # tho!ght were nglish infl!ences in the poetr% of avaf% and Seferis, # asked %o! abo!t certain images that crop !p in %o!r landscape, for e3ample, the s%mbolic meaning of the stat!es that appear in %o!r work. -o! t!rned to me and said' ;C!t those are real stat!es. (he% e3isted in a landscape # had seen.= +hat # think %o! were sa%ing is that %o! alwa%s start with the fact of a living, act!al setting and move from there to an% !niversal meaning that might be contained in it. SB*#S $n ill!stration of that from someone who is a specialist in classical stat!es came the other da% from an nglish scholar who was lect!ring abo!t the stat!ar% of the &arthenon. # went !p to congrat!late him after his lect!re, and he said to me, as # remember' ;C!t %o! have a line which e3presses something of what # meant when %o! sa% the stat!es are not the r!ins) we are the r!ins.= # mean # was astonished that a scholar of his caliber was !sing a line from me to ill!strate a point. #/(*?#+*
(he imager% that a poet gets from his childhood is something weve disc!ssed before. -o! once disting!ished %o!rself from the average nglishman b% s!ggesting that donke%s probabl% did for %o! what footballs and cars might do for them. # remember %o! also talked abo!t the sea and the sailors of %o!r native village near Sm%rna. SB*#S -o! know, the strange thing abo!t imager% is that a great deal of it is s!bconscio!s, and sometimes it appears in a poem, and nobod% knows wherefrom this emerged. C!t it is rooted, # am certain, in the poets s!bconscio!s life, often of his childhood, and thats wh% # think it is decisive for a poet' the childhood that he has lived. # think there are two different things f!nctioning' conscio!s and s!bconscio!s memor%. # think the wa% of poetr% is to draw from the s!bconscio!s. #t is not the wa% %o! write %o!r memoirs, lets sa%, or the wa% %o! tr% to remember %o!r past, %o!r earl% life. # remember man% things from m% childhood which did impress me. Bor instance, when # was a child # discovered somewhere in a corner of a sort of b!ngalow we had in m% grandmothers garden)at the place where we !sed to spend o!r s!mmers)# discovered a compass from a ship which, as # learned afterwards, belonged to m% grandfather. $nd that strange instr!ment)# think # destro%ed it in the end b% e3amining and re"e3amining it, taking it apart and p!tting it back together and then taking it apart again)became something m%thical for me. Ar again, when a!t!mn approached, when there wo!ld be a rather strong wind, and the fishing barges wo!ld have to sail thro!gh ro!gh weather, we wo!ld alwa%s be glad when the% were at last anchored, and m% mother wo!ld sa% to someone among the fishermen whod gone o!t' ;$h, bravo, %o!ve come thro!gh ro!gh weather= and he wo!ld answer' ;adam, %o! know, we alwa%s sail with haron at o!r side.= (hats moving to me. &erhaps when # wrote abo!t Ul%sses in that earl% poem %o!ve commented on E;Upon a Boreign ?erse=F)perhaps # had in mind somebod% like that fisherman. (hose ;certain old sailors from m% childhood= who wo!ld recite the Erotokritos. #n an% case, # think it is alwa%s a bit dangero!s to make !nconscio!s images conscio!s, to bring them o!t into the light, beca!se, %o! know, the% dr% o!t immediatel%. #/(*?#+* Have %o! felt an% b!rden from having spent so man% %ears writing for a tin% a!dience)an a!dience so small in the earl% %ears of %o!r career that %o! had to p!blish %o!r work at %o!r own
e3pense and iss!ed something !nder three h!ndred copies of each vol!me< (hat is a sit!ation 2!ite !nfamiliar to an established $merican poet. SB*#S #ll give %o! an e3ample. +hen # p!blished m% first vol!me, Strophe ETheTurning Point F, # iss!ed 1G copies. (hat was in 19I1. $nd # remember that in 19I9 there were still copies available at the bookseller)copies that # withdrew from circ!lation so that # co!ld bring o!t a new edition of the vol!me in 19J. C!t # m!st sa% that soon after that things began to change a bit. +hen # left for g%pt after the collapse of 0reece in the war against 0erman%, # left behind me three editions of m% work) Log Book I, Mythistorema, and Book of Exerises, besides the earlier vol!mes !istern and Strophe)left them there all brand new, witho!t having sold a single cop% before # sailed for rete and airo with the 0reek government in e3ile, as %o! know. D!ring m% absence ever%thing was sold o!t. +hen # came back, no copies remained. (he foreign occ!pation)enem% occ!pation)had given the 0reek p!blic the opport!nit% of concentration and reading. $nd # reckoned that when # ret!rned at the end of the occ!pation # was m!ch better known in 0reece than before. #/(*?#+* #ts a ver% strange phenomenon, the revival of interest in poetr% d!ring the period of the occ!pation in 0reece. #ve heard abo!t this from other poets' 0atsos and l%tis, for e3ample. &oetr% became an activit% that bro!ght together the $thenian intellect!als for readings and disc!ssion, so that in a wa% it became the richest period for poetr% in this cent!r% after the period of the thirties. SB*#S l%tis p!blished his book d!ring the occ!pation, and 0atsos his' # mean the famo!s "morgos came o!t d!ring the occ!pationK #/(*?#+* +hat happened after the occ!pation< +h% was there silence for so long among the leading poets<
SB*#S #t wasnt silence. (imes had changed, and hori7ons had widened, and ever%bod% tried to see more of life o!tside the co!ntr% the% were tr%ing to find new modes of e3pression. #/(*?#+* # wonder if %o! have felt an%thing new and interesting thro!gh reading to large p!blic a!diences in this co!ntr%. (he evidence of friends of mine who have no knowledge at all of 0reek is that the% have capt!red, from %o!r reading in 0reek, a different sense of the poetr%s rh%thm from what the% get o!t of m% reading in nglish. SB*#S (hat is ver% important. C!t # can sa% something more abo!t this e3perience of reading in $merica. (he other da% another poet reacted b% sending me a poem abo!t m% reading. (hat is a new kind of response. C!t still, the important thing is to see reactions, not to be appla!ded or not appla!ded. #/(*?#+* $fter %o!r reading at *!tgers this fall, someone in the a!dience asked %o! what %o! tho!ght of the nglish translations of %o!r poetr%, and %o! went on to make genero!s gest!res towards %o!r nglish translators, b!t then %o! added' ;Af co!rse the best translation of m% poetr% is in hinese, a lang!age which # dont !nderstand at all.= SB*#S #t isnt diffic!lt to elaborate on that beca!se, %o! know, # feel in lang!ages that # know, perhaps beca!se # know them too well 4not nglish, b!t in Brench, for e3ample, which # know reall% well5 that there are other possibilities in the translation. Bor hinese there are no other possibilities. C!t translating)#m changing the 2!estion a little bit)is interesting alwa%s beca!se it is a means of controlling %o!r own lang!age. /ow of co!rse the nglish lang!age is a more stable lang!age than o!rs we have to create o!rs, so to speak, all the time we are writing. #/(*?#+*
&o!nd said that translation is a means for a writer to sharpen contin!all% his awareness of his own lang!age, and he advised %o!ng poets to translate whenever the% co!ld. SB*#S &rovided %o! dont overdo it, # think it is alwa%s !sef!l. #/(*?#+* -o! are a poet who writes in a lang!age which few people know o!tside 0reece. # wonder if %o! feel an% resentment of the fact that %o! are known in the world of poetr% o!tside %o!r own co!ntr% largel% thro!gh translation. SB*#S (here are compensations. Bor e3ample, abo!t a %ear ago, # received a letter from an $merican sa%ing to me' ;+ell, # have learned modern 0reek in order to read Seferis.= (hats a great compliment, # think. #t is m!ch more personal than the case of a man who learns a foreign lang!age at school, isnt it< #ve heard other people sa%' ;+ell, %o! know, we learned o!r 0reek from %o!r poems.= $ great reward. $nd then # sho!ld add, perhaps, this sit!ation of not having a ver% large a!dience has something good in it, too. # mean, that it ed!cates %o! in a certain wa%' not to consider that great a!diences are the most important reward on this earth. # consider that even if # have three people who read me, # mean reall% read me, it is eno!gh. (hat reminds me of a conversation # had once !pon a time d!ring the onl% glimpse # ever had of Henri icha!3. #t was when he had a stopover in $thens, coming from g%pt, # think. He came ashore while his ship was in &irae!s !st in order to have a look at the $cropolis. $nd he told me on that occasion' ;-o! know, m% dear, a man who has onl% one reader is not a writer. $ man who has two readers is not a writer, either. C!t a man who has three readers=)and he prono!nced ;three readers= as tho!gh the% were three million);that man is rea##y a writer.= #/(*?#+* -o! said earlier there is a problem in 0reek of establishing a lang!age. (hats something which most $merican readers nat!rall% dont !nderstand. +e have a lang!age. A!r problem is alwa%s to stretch the lang!age which we have so that it somehow shows a new vitalit%. +hen %o! talk abo!t establishing or creating a lang!age, %o! mean something 2!ite different.
SB*#S +eve had the calamit% of academic intervention. ark %o!, # mean from both the left and the right. #n the beginning we had the intervention of professors who wanted to transform o!r living lang!age into something abstract in order to reach some sort of ;idea= of a p!re lang!age. An the other side, we had the fight for demotiki, as we call the pop!lar spoken lang!age. C!t this tradition)the professorial tradition)was so strong that there was a sort of academic mind which fo!ght activel% for both the p!ristic and the vernac!lar lang!age. (he best wa% to progress is b% forgetting all that academic intervention. Bor e3ample, # admire ver% m!ch the retan *enaissance. #n that period %o! find a whole poem)ten tho!sand lines, an enormo!s poem) where there is no strain at all, no effort at all the lang!age f!nctions 2!ite nat!rall%, witho!t an% flagrant tendenc% to be learned. #/(*?#+* #ts interesting that %o! take an effortless poem for a model beca!se # remember that, in another conte3t, %o! described st%le as the diffic!lt% one enco!nters in e3pressing himself. SB*#S # said that in lect!ring abo!t akri%annis, who, as %o! know, never learned how to write or read !ntil the age of thirt%"five. +hen %o! see his man!script, it is like a wall)a wall b!ilt !p o!t of stones, one placed on top of the other. #t is ver% strange. Bor e3ample, he never !ses p!nct!ation at all. /o paragraphs. /othing. #t goes on like that. $nd %o! see that each word is added to another word like a stone on top of another stone. # mean, in an% case, that when %o! reall% feel something, %o! face the diffic!lt% of e3pressing it. $nd that, after all, forms %o!r st%le. #/(*?#+* +hat are the diffic!lties %o!ve enco!ntered in establishing %o!r own st%le< SB*#S (hats another stor%. #n m% %o!th # worked ver% m!ch over the 0reek lang!age. 0lossaries, old te3ts, medieval te3ts, and things of that kind. C!t the diffic!lt% wasnt onl% in st!d%ing them
the diffic!lt% was how to forget them and be nat!ral. # had the blessing, perhaps, of being nat!ral, # dont know. (hats for others to sa% . . . #/(*?#+* # know %o! alwa%s considered it the first order of b!siness for a poet to tr% for econom% in st%le. (his seems to be in contrast to the dominant mode of %o!r predecessors)at least the mode of &alamas and Sikelianos. SB*#S (hats perhaps a local characteristic. # felt at the time of m% earl% efforts that in 0reece the% were too rhetorical, and # reacted against it. (hat was m% feeling. $nd # reacted against it in man% wa%s. Bor e3ample, in the !se of words, of adectives)especiall% compo!nd adectives, which # avoided. (o avoid certain things is deliberate with me, %o! know. % interest in e3pression was not so m!ch in the color of the lang!age, which 0reek has plent% of, b!t in precision above all and in order to be precise, %o! have to be spare in the !se of %o!r material. -o! remember that ?aler% said l%ricism is, after all, the development of an e3clamation, of an ;$h.= Bor me ;$h= is 2!ite eno!gh. # never tr% to elaborate on the e3clamation. #/(*?#+* @et me p!rs!e the matter of st%le as process of !sing lang!age sparingl%. Do %o! agree that in %o!r own work there is a development, a f!rther econom% of means, between Strophe and ever%thing that followed it< SB*#S Af co!rse. #t is not so m!ch a st%listic development as a sort of evol!tion. ver%thing evolves. # mean, one has to evolve)one has to see new things. Ane has to see other aspects and e3press these other aspects. ertainl% there is an evol!tion, b!t # dont see it as a ;development= in inverted commas. #f # had %ears more in front of me, # wo!ld perhaps write in another wa%, even in another st%le. # might again !se the strict line or rh%med verse, perhaps. #n poetr% %o! change the base of things from time to time in order to have a fresh e3pression. (he main thing %o! are looking for in poetr% is to avoid worn"o!t e3pressions. (hats the great problem.
#/(*?#+* +hat abo!t the problem of developing a prose st%le< -o! are one of the ver% few poets in 0reece who has had almost as strong an impact on the lang!age of prose criticism as %o!ve had on the lang!age of poetr%. Developing a live %et caref!l prose st%le m!st have been part of %o!r str!ggle from the beginning. SB*#S -es, b!t, %o! know, m% str!ggle was alwa%s for precision. (hat is at the base of it. $nd of co!rse in prose it appears more obvio!s)# mean the matter of econom%. #/(*?#+* (his tape machine seems to have stopped recording. Sa% something and lets see if its still working properl%. SB*#S +allace Stevens was in an ins!rance compan%. #/(*?#+* @ets hope it will go on with !s for a while. Ane of %o!r remarks which has interested me is abo!t the 2!estion of the relation between poetr% and p!blic service # think %o! said that the important thing was for the poet not to have a ob which was directl% connected with that of being a poet. SB*#S # didnt sa% the ;important= thing. # dont know, reall%, beca!se # cant speak for other people b!t for me at least, # s!ppose that it is a help not to be in a ob where # have to write as # write in m% notebooks or poetr% books. Bor e3ample, # am not a professor or a teacher or even a newspaperman. # prefer to have another occ!pation. #/(*?#+*
+as there an%thing in %o!r professional career)that is, the e3perience %o! had as a diplomat)which ma% have infl!enced in some wa% the imager% of %o!r poetr% or affected the partic!lar themes %o! chose to e3press< SB*#S # dont believe that an% themes or an% imager% were created b% m% ob, tho!gh # might mention)how did %o! translate it<)the lines from ;@ast Stop=' ;so!ls shriveled b% p!blic sins, each holding office like a bird in its cage.= # mean that is one of the few images # have drawn directl% from m% p!blic service. C!t # co!ld have felt that even if # had not been in the diplomatic service. C!t it was important for me that # had a ob which was not related to m% creative work. $nd the other thing is that # was not)how shall # p!t it<)not obliged to deal with models which belonged to literat!re. Af co!rse, there are tro!bles in that career. (he main thing # s!ffered from was not having eno!gh time. $ltho!gh others might tell %o! that it is better not to have time beca!se it is the s!bconscio!s which is doing the poetical work. (hats the point of view of (om liot. # remember once, when # was transferred from @ondon to Ceir!t 4this was after !st one and a half %ears of service in @ondon5, # told him' ;% dear r. liot, # think # am fed !p with m% career and # shall give !p all this.= # remember his sa%ing' ;Ce caref!l, be caref!l if %o! do that,= and then he mentioned the s!bconscio!s)the s!bconscio!s working for poetr%. $ nd # told him' ;-es, b!t if # have a ob, an official ob which is interfering with m% s!bconscio!s, then # prefer not to have a ob. # mean # wo!ld prefer to be a carpenter and to be where m% s!bconscio!s is 2!ite free to do whatever it likes, dance or not dance.= $nd # added' ;-o! know, # can tell %o! when m% p!blic life began to interfere with m% s!bconscio!s. #t was on the eve of the war with the #talians)in September J)when # started having political dreams. (hen # knew 2!ite well that m% s!bconscio!s was s!ffering the onsla!ght of m% official ob. #n dreams responsibilities begin.= #/(*?#+* -o! once made a comment abo!t the connection between poetr% and politics . . . SB*#S -o! mean what #ve said abo!t propaganda writing, or ;engaged= writing, or whatever %o! call that kind of writing in o!r times. # believe that something real, as far as feeling is concerned,
sho!ld be elaborated as feeling. # dont consider that $esch%l!s was making a propaganda pla% b% p!tting the s!ffering &ersians on stage, or desperate Ler3es, or the ghost of Dari!s, and so forth. An the contrar%, there was h!man compassion in it. Bor his enemies. /ot that hes not of co!rse glad that the 0reeks won the battle of Salamis. C!t even then he showed that Ler3es defeat was a sort of divine retrib!tion' a p!nishment for the h!bris that Ler3es committed in flagellating the sea. Since his h!bris was to flagellate the sea, he was p!nished e3actl% $y the sea in the battle of Salamis. #/(*?#+* #s it possible to compare poetr% across national lines< Ar do we alwa%s have to make 2!alitative comparisons strictl% within a single tradition< SB*#S # feel a sort of rel!ctance abo!t comparing poets. #t is ver% diffic!lt)even within the same tradition. (r% to compare Dante and $lfred, @ord (enn%son, for e3ample' +hat that wo!ld lead to, # dont know. Ar, in the Brench tradition, how can %o! compare *acine and ?ictor H!go< -o! have to go ver% deep, to the bottom of the tradition, in order to find some sort of common gro!nd where the comparison can fairl% take place. An the other hand, for e3ample, # m%self !sed -eats in m% Stockholm acceptance speech beca!se # had been reading, !st a few months before m% trip to Stockholm, ;(he Co!nt% of Sweden,= where he reco!nts the whole affair of his election to the /obel &ri7e' his trip to Stockholm, the ceremon%, and ever%thing. $nd there # felt a sort of relation with him as a h!man being)not as a poet b!t as a h!man being beca!se -eats belonged to a small co!ntr% with a great folklore tradition, a co!ntr% which, after all, had political t!rmoil. C% the wa%, theres another e3ample of a p!blic poet who doesnt write propaganda. He writes, for e3ample, a poem abo!t an #rish airman which isnt at all propaganda. ;(hose # fight # do not hate)= etc. Ar he writes ;(he Second oming.= (hat, too, is not propaganda' ;(he center cannot hold,= etc., which after all starts somewhere in #rish political life b!t it goes deeper, and thats the whole point, # think. #/(*?#+* -o!ve mentioned at %o!r readings, in talking abo!t ;(he >ing of $sine,= the fact that it had taken %o! two %ears to find a wa% of writing abo!t that partic!lar e3perience, and then, at some
point, after having given %o!r notes for that poem to a friend, %o! completed the final draft in one long evening. liot has implied that %o! finished the poem 4between ten &.. and three in the morning5 e3actl% beca!se %o! didnt have %o!r notes before %o!. SB*#S # had no notes. $nd he ma% have been right. # dont know. #n m% home in $thens, # have all m% papers and m% books. $nd # wonder if thats a helpf!l thing or not, if its not better to have !st a blank writing desk witho!t an% papers or an% books at all, where %o! can sit at reg!lar ho!rs ever% da%. #/(*?#+* Do %o! normall% make notes on the e3perience of a poem before %o! write it< SB*#S Ah, there are man% wa%s. Sometimes # do. Sometimes # do not. (here are things which %o! have to remember, and # have to record these somewhere, so of co!rse # make notes. Bor e3ample, there is a poem where # have !sed the chronographer akhairas, where it was impossible to avoid referring to that stor% abo!t the demon of fornication. #/(*?#+* # didnt mean notes once the poem has been composed in %o!r mind, b!t notes on the e3perience which, in effect, becomes the poem. SB*#S /o, # dont do that. +hen # sa% notes, # mean there are those on the material, notes which are needed beca!se the% are descriptive. $nd there are notes that are ideas, poetical ideas. Bor e3ample, poetical e3pressions, poetical !tterances, that is the kind of notes # mean. #f # were to write a poem abo!t %o!)# might make a note that ;ike has ceased to smoke for man% %ears.= # mean if the things so!nd well in 0reek to m% ear, # co!ld write it. (hats all)things which are indifferent to other people. (hese # call poetical notes. Sometimes # disregard them altogether, and sometimes # go back to them. Sometimes, when the% are 2!ite forgotten, b% having a
glimpse at them, # sa%' ;Ah, that poem was rather interesting,= altho!gh the% dont sa% an%thing at all to the ordinar% person. Still, the% take me back to a certain atmosphere which, in the meantime, has been working, elaborating, a form in m% mind. #/(*?#+* Do %o! keep these notes or do %o! destro% them< SB*#S Ah, # destro% a lot. Some months ago in $thens)there was somebod%, a sort of Hellenist, who was interested in photographing notes. $nd # had the impression that # had kept m% notes on The !istern. # looked for them in all m% files, and it appeared to me then that # had destro%ed them. (he onl% thing that # fo!nd was the ;/otes for a +eek= which have been p!blished 2!ite recentl%)that is, the two missing poems from that gro!p. #/(*?#+* #m sorr% abo!t that, in a wa%, beca!se # think The !istern is a poem that all of !s have fo!nd obsc!re in places, and the notes might have helped)might have helped me, an%wa%. SB*#S Dont complain abo!t it. (he% might have made the poem m!ch more obsc!re, %o! know. Bor e3ample, the general idea abo!t m% evol!tion in poetr% is' ;$h, %o! see, Seferis started with reg!lar lines, rh%mes, strict versification, and then he moved to free verse.= +hen # see m% notes, # see that the main poem of Strophe, the ;rotikos @ogos,= appears to be in ver% strict versification b!t m% notes show me that this poem was also written in free verse. # have fo!nd some of the first drafts. #/(*?#+* +o!ld %o! ever consider p!blishing them< SB*#S C% 0od, no.
#/(*?#+* Do %o! think thats the reason liot was so caref!l abo!t not rediscovering the lost parts of The %aste Land, which have now been rediscovered< SB*#S +hen he told me the stor% abo!t the writing of The %aste Land, he seemed 2!ite desperate abo!t the man!scripts being lost. An the other hand, he also told me how !sef!l)he stressed that point)how usefu# the intervention of &o!nd had reall% been. #/(*?#+* Do %o! approve of p!blishing discarded things< SB*#S # dont know it depends. #t needs a great deal of tact. /ot b% the poet himself b!t b% his editors. #f the% p!blish them, the% tend to stress that the% are all"important discoveries, and # think this is bad. Averpla%ing it. (he editors and the philologists are alwa%s overdoing things, # think. #/(*?#+* # know from a section of %o!r diar% which m% wife and # translated that %o!r relationship with liot was an important one in %o!r life in vario!s wa%s. # wonder if an% other literar% fig!res who are known in the +est have also been important to %o!. #m thinking partic!larl% of Henr% iller and @awrence D!rrell and ma%be others # dont know abo!t. #m thinking also of %o!r own compatriots' (heotokas and >atsimbalis, for e3ample. SB*#S D!rrell was m!ch %o!nger than me, %o! know. He was a ver% interesting %o!ng man when # met him. He was in his mid"twenties. # met him with Henr% iller. (he% came to $thens to see the oloss!s of aro!ssi, >atsimbalis. #t was on the da%)if m% memor% is correct)of the declaration of war.
#/(*?#+* C!t of co!rse >atsimbalis wasnt the oloss!s at that point. SB*#S /o, b!t iller was threatening to make him something ver% colossal. #/(*?#+* +ell, he did. SB*#S #t was nice to meet them the% were, lets sa%, the first)or if not e3actl% the first, then the second or third)readers with an !nderstanding of what # was doing. Bor e3ample, one of them, iller or @arr%, told me after reading m% poems' ;-o! know what # like abo!t %o! is that %o! t!rn things inside o!t. $nd # mean that in the good sense.= (hat was a ver% nice compliment for me at that time. #/(*?#+* How did the% come to know %o!r poetr%< SB*#S How. Hm. (here were then in nglish onl% the translations of >atsimbalis. an!script translations, # mean. #/(*?#+* +hen the% came to $thens, wh% did the% go directl% to >atsimbalis< +h% was he the man whom the% approached< +as he well known as a literar% fig!re o!tside 0reece< SB*#S # dont know. #t was a matter of common friends, perhaps. He became a bigger literar% fig!re after The !o#ossus of Maroussi . $t that time he was more in contact than # was with the
nglish and $merican literar% circles. (here was a sort of international bohemia, # might sa%, b% then in $thens. # mean on the eve of the war. # m!st add that >atsimbalis has that wonderf!l 2!alit% of being witho!t evil intention in his heart. He might critici7e somebod%, b!t in a good" hearted wa%. $nd he believed that o!r co!ntr%, o!r little co!ntr%, was able to do something. He had that sort of belief. #/(*?#+* +hat abo!t Henr% iller< How did %o! respond to him< SB*#S # like iller beca!se he is a ver% good"hearted man, and # think)e3c!se me for sa%ing so, b!t this is not a criticism' #t is great praise to sa% abo!t a writer that he is a good man)iller has a great deal of generosit% in him. Bor e3ample, when the moment came for him to go back to $merica 4he was advised to do so b% the $merican cons!l as an $merican national, he had to go back home beca!se the war was coming near5, he said to me one da%' ;% dear 0eorge, %o!ve been so kind to me, and # want to give %o! something.= $nd he prod!ced a diar% which he had been keeping d!ring his sta% in 0reece. # said' ;@ook here, Henr%. C!t after all, # know that %o! are going to write a book, and %o! cant write the book)# mean %o! might need %o!r notes.= He said' ;/o. $ll those things are here,= pointing to his head. # offered to make a t%pescript cop% for him to give him. ;/o,= he said, ;a gift m!st be whole.= +ell, thats a splendid wa% of behaving, # think. $nd # shall never forget that. (he diar% was a sort of first draft of the !o#ossus. C!t with more personal e3plosions. $nd more okes, of co!rse. #/(*?#+* (here are 2!ite a few okes in the book, too. SB*#S (he trip to H%dra is splendid and the channel of &oros. *emember< % feeling abo!t iller is this' Af co!rse its a great thing to have an !nderstanding of the ancient a!thors b!t the first man # admired for not having an% classical preparation on going to 0reece is iller. (here is s!ch a freshness in him.
#/(*?#+* (he freshness of being read% to take it all in for the first time, %o! mean< SB*#S # s!ppose # was the first man to give him a te3t of $esch%l!s, when he decided to go to %cenae. C!t of co!rse he doesnt see an%thing from $esch%l!s he sees, in the plain of $rgos, redskins while he hears a a77 tr!mpeter. (hat is spontaneo!s behavior. $nd # admire it. #/(*?#+* Ma77 tr!mpeter< SB*#S (he a77 tr!mpeter was inspired, # s!ppose, b% @o!is $rmstrong. Ceca!se he had heard $rmstrong on a small gramophone)a 2!ite elementar% gramophone)that # had then in m% home in $thens. # m%self had discovered a77 eight or ten %ears earlier . . . #/(*?#+* Cefore illers arrival in 0reece. So %o! ta!ght him abo!t a77< SB*#S # was thirt%"two or thirt%"three at that time. $nd # became a a77 addict. # said to m%self, after all, %o! have discovered at the same time the importance of Cach)the great Cach) and the importance of a77. # remember once # said to itropo!los' ;Bor me, m% dear maestro, a77 is one of the few wa%s left for !s to e3press feeling witho!t embarrassment.= (hat was in IG. /o, IJ. #/(*?#+* +as there an% other writer abroad or in 0reece with whom %o! had a partic!larl% close relationship<
SB*#S #ts depends on what period %o! are referring to. Bor e3ample, # had ver% close relations with Sikelianos once !pon a time. # met him first in 199, tho!gh it did not become a close relationship !ntil after his illness and m% ret!rn to 0reece in 19JJ. D!ring his illness, Sikelianos was reall% remarkable, when he had all those crises in his health. +hile # was serving abroad, # wo!ld take advantage of m% trips to $thens to go and see him. Ane time # heard that he had !st been thro!gh a sort of cerebral hemorrhage. # fo!nd him at the theater wearing dark glasses)a premiNre at the /ational (heatre. # said' ;Ah $ngelo, # am so glad %o! are here, beca!se # had heard that %o! were not so well.= ;% dear,= he said, ;it is s!ch a splendid thing to have a little r!b% on the top of %o!r brain.= He meant the hemorrhage. # said to him' ;#t is a splendid thing that %o! can talk abo!t it that wa%. # am so glad.= He said' ;0eorge, look here. # shall tell %o! a stor% d!ring the ne3t intermission.= # approached him d!ring the ne3t intermission. He said' ;Have %o! read &oam$o# <= #ts a sort of Brench thriller. Sikelianos went on' ;Ance !pon a time a woman had thrown vitriol against the face of *ocambol, and *ocambol was in danger of losing his e%esight so he was taken b% one of his henchmen to the best specialist in &aris, and the specialist e3amined him ver% caref!ll% while the friend of *ocambol was sitting in the waiting room overhearing the conversation of the doctor. $nd the doctors concl!sion was' Sir, %o! have to choose between two things' either lose %o!r e%esight or be disfig!red. (here was a moment of heav% silence then the voice from the waiting room, the voice of the friend of *ocambol, was heard' *ocambol has no need of his e%esight.= #/(*?#+* (ell me more abo!t Sikelianos. So little is known abo!t him o!tside 0reece. SB*#S $nother thing which # have mentioned in writing, at the time of his death. He had a great crisis in $thens, and # r!shed to see him # was ver% an3io!s he had collapsed in the ho!se of a friend. $nd again, the same splendid reaction. # said to him' ;% dear $ngelo, are %o! all right<= He said' ;#m all right. C!t # had a splendid e3perience. # saw the absol!te dark. #t was so bea!tif!l.= #/(*?#+*
Did %o! know &alamas< +hat kind of man was he< SB*#S -o! know, it is strange the memories # have kept of people. Bor e3ample, other people admire Sikelianos for their own special reasons m%self, # was attracted b% those tragic and splendid moments of Sikelianoss last %ears. /ow &alamas' Ane of m% last memories of him was when # went to tell him good"b%e beca!se # was leaving shortl%. D!ring o!r conversation he referred to vario!s cra7% people mentioned in his poetr% and added' ;-o! know, we have man% mad people in m% famil%. # wanted once !pon a time to write a book called (o 0enos ton @o3on.= How can we translate that into nglish< ;(he breed of . . .= #/(*?#+* Af madmen. SB*#S /ot 2!ite of madmen. Af ;obli2!e= men. #/(*?#+* '$#i(ue men< SB*#S #m tr%ing to get the precise translation of the word. #/(*?#+* Unbalanced men, perhaps. SB*#S # said to him' ;r. &alamas, it is a pit% %o! didn)t write s!ch a book.= Ceca!se # tho!ght it wo!ld be a good book. He had an interesting sense of h!mor. #/(*?#+*
+hat do %o! consider &alamass most significant contrib!tion to 0reek literat!re< SB*#S +ell, # said it in *okimes, b!t # wo!ld repeat' his ver% important contrib!tion to the 0reek lang!age. # mean compared to his, avaf%s e3pression seems rather faint, altho!gh at certain moments more real. #/(*?#+* C!t the min!te %o! sa% ;altho!gh more real= . . . SB*#S $gain, what # appreciate ver% m!ch in avaf% is his having started with terrificall% !nreal poems, and then, b% insistence and work, he fo!nd at last his own personal voice. He wrote ver% bad poems !p to his thirt%"fo!rth %ear. (he fail!re of those poems cannot be translated or comm!nicated to a foreign reader beca!se the lang!age of the translation is alwa%s bo!nd to improve them. (here is no possibilit% of translating that sort of thing faithf!ll%. -o! know, what # admire)let me p!t it m% own wa%)what # admire abo!t avaf% was this' He was a man who starts at a certain age with all signs showing that hes !nable to prod!ce an%thing of importance. $nd then, b% ref!sing and ref!sing things which are offered him, in the end he finds, he sees, as the% sa% he becomes certain that hes fo!nd his own e3pression. #ts a splendid e3ample of a man who, thro!gh his ref!sals, finds his wa%. #/(*?#+* +hat did he ref!se precisel%< SB*#S 3pressions, and the eas% things, verbosit%)that sort of thing. (ake his poem on ancient traged%, for e3ample. #t is ver% bad. #t is something !nbelievable. C% p!tting aside things like that, avaf% improves his e3pression !p to the end of his life, even !p to the last poem he wrote on the o!tskirts of $ntioch' the happenings between the hristians and M!lian. $nd # admire him for going on to the end like that. Hes a great e3ample. He had the co!rage, !p to the end of
his life, not to admit certain things, to reect them. $nd thats wh% # have do!bts abo!t all these people who are tr%ing to p!t into circ!lation all the reected writings of avaf%, !nless one is ver% caref!l in reading him. -o! know, that needs a great deal of discernment. #/(*?#+* (o t!rn now to the other well"known writer of the older generation, what abo!t >a7ant7akis< #n the U.S., avaf% is the poet whos respected b% those who are themselves poets) $!den, for instance, and man% of the important %o!nger $merican poets most of them know avaf%, and most of them have a s%mpathetic attit!de towards him. C!t among st!dents and among those who are !st beginning to learn abo!t literat!re, >a7ant7akis is b% far the most pop!lar 0reek writer, both as poet and as novelist. #ncreasingl% m% ob is to tr% to disc!ss >a7ant7akiss work)whether poetr% or fiction)witho!t diminishing him. SB*#S # dont wonder. (he thing is that one m!st have a possibilit% of being in contact with a writer, and that # cannot do in the case of >a7ant7akis)a terrible thing for me, %o! know. # m!st give %o! a warning as far as >a7ant7akis is concerned. An the one hand, there is his poetr%) what is called poetr%)and thats the 'dyssey se2!el, of co!rse, and his pla%s in verse and on the other hand, there is his prose' the novels. /ow, as far as the novels are concerned, # am not competent to !dge. # dont know how to speak abo!t the novels. # have not read all of them. # hear from people whom # tr!st that the% are ver% good, and the% ma% well $e ver% good. C!t the 'dyssey se2!el is another matter. (here, altho!gh %o! have interesting passages, #m afraid there is no poetr% in them. # sa% interesting passages)passages that are informative abo!t the man >a7ant7akis b!t # dont believe thats poetr%, at least not the poetr% # believe in. #/(*?#+* +hat abo!t as ;idea,= 2!ite aside from poetic considerations< $s statement of a philosophical or religio!s position. SB*#S # dont know. # have no idea abo!t philosophical positions and worldviews. -o! know, whenever worldviews begin interfering with writing)# dont know. # prefer worldviews in the
sort of dr%, rep!lsive, and 4# dont know how to p!t it5 prosaic wa%. # dont like people who tr% to e3press worldviews in writing poetr%. # remember once # had a reading in (hessalonike, and a philosopher stood !p and asked' ;C!t what, after all, r. Seferis, is %o!r worldview<= $nd # said' ;% dear friend, #m sorr% to sa% that # have no world view. # have to make this p!blic confession to %o! that # am writing witho!t having an% worldview. # dont know, perhaps %o! find that scandalo!s, sir, b!t ma% # ask %o! to tell me what Homers worldview is<= $nd # didnt get an answer. #/(*?#+* (o move on to a more general s!bect, %o! said d!ring one of o!r conversations in $thens that a circ!mstance which is notable abo!t 0reek writers in this cent!r% was that so man% of them were o!tside the >ingdom of 0reece proper. -o! mentioned %o!rself as an instance, having been bro!ght !p in Sm%rna. o!ld %o! comment on the wa%s %o!r Sm%rna origin ma% have infl!enced %o!r work or %o!r general role as a man of letters< SB*#S @et me sa% that # am interested in ever%thing which finds e3pression in the 0reek lang!age and in 0reek lands)# mean, taking 0reek lands as a whole. Bor e3ample, # was terribl% interested, as %o! know, in what happened in rete in the seventeenth cent!r%. $nd in another wa%, people in *omania, for e3ample, the principalities of oldavia and +allachia, interested me ver% m!ch)even odd minor people like >aisarios Dapontes, if %o! know who he is. # think he was from somewhere in the northern islands, Skopelos of the Sporades, and he lived a long part of his life in the principalities, then onstantinople, and finall% he retired to t. $thos !nder the name of >aisarios. # dont mean that he is a great poet, simpl% that his wa% of e3pressing himself interests me. # dont sa% that he writes great poetr%, b!t after all, one feels that in those co!ntries in the eighteenth cent!r%, there was s!ch a flo!rishing of 0reek letters. $nother monk of t. $thos)#m tr%ing to remember his name)%es, his name was &amberis, wrote a poem, not a ver% long one beca!se it wo!ld be an impossible achievement to write a long poem !nder the s%stem he decided to !se. He called it ;&oiema >arkinikon,= so to sa%, ;&oem ancero!s.= #t was devised so that it co!ld be read from left to right or from right to left, and still attempting to make sense)b!t a sense so remote that he had to p!t notes e3plaining what each line meant. (hese small details am!se me, %o! know. $nd # think that the% add to the too professorial image we have of 0reek literat!re. Ar again, another te3t' ;(he ass of the
Ceardless an.= #t is a te3t written in the form of a mock ass that parodies the ass in a rather shocking wa%. #t am!ses me especiall% beca!se # dont see eno!gh light comic te3ts in o!r literat!re. ither people refrained from writing s!ch te3ts, or s!ch te3ts were eliminated b% somber"minded academics. #/(*?#+* (hats an interesting remark. -o!ve said on another occasion that one thing which %o! find that the $nglo"Sa3on tradition has and no other tradition has is that element of nonsense)an element which is fairl% contin!o!s in o!r literat!re and which seems alwa%s to have e3isted in some form. SB*#S (he $nglo"Sa3on tradition is certainl% different from o!rs in that respect and # believe that no continental co!ntr% can claim the same kind of nonsense that dward @ear and @ewis arroll offer. #/(*?#+* -o!ve spent three periods of service in ngland, spread over the best part of %o!r literar% career. Did %o! find it an especiall% congenial climate for work< SB*#S /ot reall%. $ ver% good place for me for writing was when # was in $lbania beca!se # was 2!ite !nknown there, and ver% isolated at the same time # was near 0reece, # mean, from the lang!age point of view, and # co!ld !se m% free time to advantage. (here were no e3ha!sting social f!nctions. #/(*?#+* +hat abo!t %o!r ac2!aintance with nglish men of letters d!ring %o!r earl% %ears in ngland< -o! met liot, of co!rse. SB*#S
/o, # had a letter of introd!ction to liot, and # rang his office, b!t the secretar% informed me that liot was in the United States. #t was the time when he was harles liot /orton &rofessor at Harvard. # never met liot nor an% other writer in the beginning. Birst of all, # was rather sh% as a person then, it was a period when # was groping to find m% own f!rther e3pression. #n contrast, when # came to ngland after +orld +ar ##, m% period in the iddle ast had created a great man% friends among the nglish, and when # came back to ngland as o!nselor at the mbass%, # had no diffic!lt% at all beca!se b% then # was 2!ite well known in ngland. #t was !st after the p!blication of m% first translation into nglish, The +ing of "sine and 'ther Poems, in 19J8. #/(*?#+* D!ring the period of %o!r first official visit to ngland, # wonder whether %o! had an% contact with nglish or $merican literat!re that %o! fo!nd partic!larl% e3citing along with liots work. SB*#S # think a ver% instr!ctive man for me, as # fo!nd o!t afterwards, was +. C. -eats. C!t #m talking abo!t -eatss earl% period. $fter all, %o! see, # had endeavored to e3ploit folklore m!ch as -eats did. #/(*?#+* +hat abo!t $merican literat!re< Did %o! have an% favorite $merican a!thors in %o!r formative %ears< SB*#S #t is an odd thing for !s)# s!ppose that happens to ever%bod% abroad)# mean, one gets into literat!re and art b% chance. Bor e3ample, # dont remember on what occasion # came to know $rchibald ac@eish. $nd # translated him, as a matter of fact. # think # am the first man to have translated him in 0reece. (hen there was arianne oore. # had translated arianne oore before the war also. ;(he onke%s,= ;(o a Snail.= #/(*?#+*
-o! sa% %o! enco!ntered them b% accident. +hat was the accident< SB*#S Ah, # dont know. Some review where # saw the poems, # dont remember which one. $nd again, 7ra &o!nd. # had alread% translated three !antos before the war. #/(*?#+* +hen # bro!ght !p $merican literat!re, # was reall% thinking abo!t the older $merican poets' +alt +hitman and mil% Dickinson, for e3ample. SB*#S # knew +alt +hitman. Ceca!se # started with Brench literat!re, and +alt +hitman was translated into Brench earl% eno!gh to be available to me. $nd then Henr% iller had an admiration for +hitman. He gave me man% hints abo!t him. (hat was 2!ite near the o!tbreak of the war, of co!rse. C!t # keep reading +hitman, as, in m% %o!th, # was reading dgar $llan &oe. #/(*?#+* /ow that %o!re abo!t to go back to 0reece, do %o! have an%thing that %o! can sa% abo!t this partic!lar visit to the United States)which is %o!r third visit, if #m not mistaken)an%thing abo!t %o!r impressions of this co!ntr%< SB*#S % third visit to $merica has been the most important of all, this visit it has been more s!bstantial than the others. # dont believe that visiting /ew -ork helps %o! to !nderstand $merica. !rio!sl% eno!gh, # am now in the middle of a wood in a remote place, &rinceton, %et # have been able to see and !nderstand more of $merica from this remote place than if # were in a great center. #/(*?#+* Af co!rse &rincetonians dont think &rinceton is all that remote.
SB*#S +ell, # mean for others who are tr%ing, when the% are traveling, to see cosmopolitan centers, it might look remote. $nd after all, we travelers do not attend co!rses at the !niversit%. #/(*?#+* +hat have %o! seen in partic!lar d!ring this visit that has impressed %o!< SB*#S # dont want to mention things which impress me, %o! know. /obod% knows what impresses him on the spot. # mean it takes time to be elaborated somehow b% memor%. #/(*?#+* Did %o! get some work done< SB*#S -es, # think # did. # cant sa%. # dont know how to speak abo!t work done. # have the impression that one can speak abo!t work done onl% when the work is finished. # am not inclined to speak abo!t m% work d!ring the period of elaboration. C!t in an% case, there is an inner feeling that %o! have not lost %o!r time. +hich is something. # mean, # want to be honest with %o!' # cannot mention an%thing reall% done. (he onl% thing # can mention to %o!)and #m not going to mention the s!bstance of it)is that # wrote a poem of two lines. #/(*?#+* -o! !st received a vol!me of !gene carth%s poems. # fo!nd that rather moving' to discover that he had in fact written a vol!me of poems, and apparentl% d!ring his campaign last %ear. SB*#S -es, wh% not< # mean # can ver% well !nderstand that. #f there was a period of e!phoria, there is no reason wh% it sho!ldnt happen in poetr% at the same time that it happens in a
chapter of politics. Ane of m% poems, ;(hr!sh,= was written after a terribl% active period of m% life)# mean, politicall% active, beca!se # was principal private secretar% to the *egent of 0reece !st before going to &oros. Af co!rse poems do not appear like an er!ption b% a volcano the% need preparation. $nd # think back on ;(hr!sh,= # can well mark notes, lines, which # had started writing d!ring the previo!s %ear, that most active %ear. /evertheless, # remember da%s when the ob was killing, beca!se # was not a politician, # was !st a servant, a p!blic servant, and # remember da%s when # started going to m% office at something like eight oclock in the morning and ret!rned back home the ne3t da% at five oclock in the morning witho!t having had an% meal or an% sleep. # mention that, of co!rse, not in order to move %o! b!t in order to show %o! that, after all, time was pressing then. C!t # was also writing. Af co!rse, there are other things which infl!enced m% work at that time, and among other things # might mention the fact that # ret!rned to m% co!ntr% after a great period of longing, at the end of the war. #/(*?#+* Do %o! feel that, in addition to the lines %o! wrote, the poem was gestating in some significant wa% d!ring this ver% active period, so that when %o! went to &oros it co!ld come o!t as the coherent work it is in a relativel% short period< $ month of vacation, wasnt it< SB*#S (wo months. (he first long holida% # ever had d!ring m% career)the longest one. #/(*?#+* $nd %o! were able to write the poem)and it is a long poem)in effect d!ring one sitting' the long sitting of that two"month vacation< SB*#S /o. -o!ll find the stor% of m% writing that poem in the diar% of this period, the period of J6 on &oros. # !sed to go for a swim)no, first # wo!ld c!t wood in the garden 4which was a h!ge garden5, then go to the sea, and then work !p to night, !p to darkness, which started at seven oclock. $nd it is strange, %o! know, how)e3c!se me for talking like this)# noticed how one is cleansed progressivel% b% s!ch a life. Bor e3ample, # noticed that cleansing in m% dreams, as # mentioned in this diar% which has been recentl% p!blished.
#/(*?#+* # have onl% one more reall% general topic to bring !p. # wonder if %o! feel, as the res!lt of %o!r rather !ni2!e position in 0reek letters now)# s!ppose an% poet has a !ni2!e position in his co!ntr% once hes won the /obel &ri7e)if %o! feel that this in an% wa% has affected %o!r sense of a p!blic role as a man of letters as distinct from %o!r private role as a poet)an% responsibilit% %o! ma% feel towards %o!nger poets, for instance, towards the c!lt!ral life aro!nd %o!, or an% position %o! ma% sense %o! have to maintain in relation to %o!r co!ntr%. SB*#S # sho!ld from the beginning tell %o! 2!ite bl!ntl%)if # can sa% it in nglish)that the /obel &ri7e is an accident, no more than an accident. #ts not an appointment. $nd # have no feeling that # have been appointed to an% sort of f!nction. #t is !st an accident which one has to tr% and forget as soon as possible. Atherwise, if %o! are overda77led b% that sort of thing, %o! get lost and fo!nder. $t the time # won the pri7e, there was a sort of)how can # p!t it in nglish<)a sort of assandra"like critic who wrote that Seferis sho!ld be ver% caref!l beca!se hes going to be completel% dried !p as far as his work is concerned and even die from vario!s illnesses since that sort of thing happens to people who have that kind of s!ccess. He was !st e3aggerating the one side of it witho!t considering, after all, what showed in the wa% # reacted to the pri7e. Bor e3ample, # said in Stockholm to m% !dges 4or whatever the% are5' 0entlemen, # thank %o!)this at the end of a sort of lect!re # gave there)for allowing me, after a long effort, to be no$ody, to be !nnoticed, as Homer sa%s of Ul%sses. $nd # was 2!ite sincere. $fter all, # dont recogni7e the right of an%bod% to take %o! b% the back of %o!r neck and throw %o! into a sort of ocean of empt% responsibilities. +h%, thats scandalo!s, after all. #/(*?#+* /ow lets move awa% from the iss!e of the /obel &ri7e. 0reece, being a small co!ntr%, seems to me to have alwa%s had, somehow, a tradition 4its an informal tradition, !nlike the Critish one5 of an !nofficial b!t generall% recogni7ed poet la!reate)a feeling among poets and their followers that there is one spokesman for poetr% in each partic!lar generation)even if the role of spokesman is sometimes self"ass!med. Sikelianos, for e3ample, pla%ed that role. $nd in his da%, so did &alamas.
SB*#S +ell, %es, 0od bless them, b!t #m sorr% to sa% that # never felt # was the spokesman for an%thing or an%bod%. (here are no credentials which appoint an%bod% to be a spokesman for something. /ow others consider that a sort of f!nction which m!st be performed b!t # think that is, after all, wh% # have written so little. #ve never felt the obligation # have to consider onl% that # am not dried !p as a poet and to write. # mean that has been m% feeling from the ver% beginning. # remember when # p!blished m% first book, there were lots of people who said' ;r. Seferis, %o! m!st now tr% to show !s that %o! can do more.= # answered them' ;0entlemen, %o! m!st consider that ever% poem p!blished b% me is the last one. # never have an% feeling abo!t its contin!ation.= % last poem. $nd if # write another one, its a great blessing. /ow how m!ch # have worked in order to prod!ce the ne3t poem, or how m!ch # have not worked, is another matter)a private matter. Athers think that the% are the voices of the co!ntr%. $ll right. 0od bless them. $nd sometimes the%ve been ver% good in that f!nction. #/(*?#+* Mo%ce felt that wa% a bit. #m thinking of the famo!s remark b% Stephen Dedal!s at the end of " Portrait of the "rtist as a Young Man, ;to forge in the smith% of m% so!l the !ncreated conscience of m% race.= SB*#S # can give %o! another e3ample. #n m% %o!th there was an enormo!s amo!nt of disc!ssion abo!t the problem of knowing, or tr%ing to define, what is 0reek and what is not 0reek) praising one thing as 0reek and condemning something else as !n"0reek' tr%ing, in short, to establish ;the real= 0reek tradition. So # wrote, ;0reekness is the s!m of the a!thentic works which are going to be prod!ced b% 0reeks.= +e cannot sa% that we have some works creating the conscience of 0reece. +e see a line, b!t s!rro!nded b% large margins of darkness. #t isnt simple. # dont know what m% voice is. #f others, for the time being, consider that it is theirconscience, so m!ch the better. #ts !p to them to decide. #ts not !p to me to impose beca!se %o! cannot be a sort of dictator in these matters. #/(*?#+*
Some wo!ld think %o!rs the health% attit!de, b!t there are other people who feel that a /obel &ri7e winner, especiall% when he is the onl% one the co!ntr% has ever had, ought to be a spokesman and a p!blic conscience. SB*#S #t might be so, b!t, after all, one takes the attit!de which is imposed on him b% his nat!re, or whatever %o! call it. $t the same time, # have never forced m%self to write an%thing which # didnt think necessar%. +hen # sa% ;necessar%,= # mean which # had to e3press or be smothered. #/(*?#+* +ell, #ve r!n o!t of 2!estions. Since %o! dont have an% grand advice for the %o!nger generation, #ve nothing more to ask %o!. SB*#S # hae advice. #/(*?#+* Ah %o! do- 0ood. SB*#S # have the following advice to give to the %o!nger 0reek generation' to tr% to e3ercise themselves as m!ch as the% can in the modern 0reek lang!age. $nd not to write it !pside down. # have to tell them that in order to write, one m!st believe in what one does, not seeming to believe that one is believing something. (he% m!st remember that the onl% ob in which one cannot lie is poetr%. -o! cant lie in poetr%. #f %o! are a liar, %o!ll alwa%s be discovered. &erhaps now, perhaps in five %ears, in ten %ears, b!t %o! are going to be discovered event!all% if %o! are l%ing. #/(*?#+* +hen %o! speak of l%ing, %o!re speaking first of all abo!t l%ing against %o!r emotional . . .
