Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng
Understanding teen intervention – Ocean 2 Film Transcript Cloe – Cloe Madanes Tony – Anthony Robbins Barbra Ocean Albert
Clo Cloe:
When When a tee teen n is is in in dis distr tres ess, s, what what is the the cau cause se?? Wha Whatt can can pare paren nts do di differ fferen entl tly y to to create rapid change in their teen’s behavior? How much do family dynamics affect the teen’s behavior even one who is dedicated to doing well? You are about to see. n the previous film we met !cean who described the conflict with her parents that led her to run away from home and to start cutting her legs. "ony led !cean to understand the situation with her parents more clearly and led her to a more stable family relationship. # few wee$s later, "ony and visited with with !cean and her parents at a relative’s home. #s you will see, !cean had ta$en the first important step towards improvement with no drug use, cutting or running away and she had began to create some positive changes in the family. %ow "ony and need to understand the larger patterns in !cean’s family environment to ensure the continued happiness of everyone involved. "ony and met with !cean and her parents in their family home near !cean’s house. Have you seen changes in !cean?
&arb &arbra ra::
!h she’ she’ss bee been n phe pheno nome mena nal. l. 'he’ 'he’ss bee been n gre great at sinc sincee she she got got hom home. e. 'he’ 'he’ss e(ceptionally, for me it’s find her li$e very easy to approach, very easy to tal$ to and $now that have changed a lot too since ocean has come home. )y role as far as having changed. have changed as far as* $now that am a fanatic as far as telling !cean to do this and to do that and to worry about her room, and to worry about the lights of her shower+
Cloe:
!h great.
&arbra:
"o worry about everything.
Cloe:
suspected.
&arb &arbra ra::
"ota "otall lly y all all the the way way,, whet whethe herr she’ she’ss got got a col cold d or or whe wheth ther er she she doe doesn sn’t ’t hav havee a col cold d and li$e everything, what time she goes to bed, everything and now since she got home, all am trying to do and thin$ am doing a pretty good ob ust to love and to show her that love her and let !cean be !cean.
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng Clo Cloe:
t’s t’s a goo good d si sign that that her her mot mothe herr has has real realii-ed ed that that perh perhap apss she she was was too too cont contro roll llin ing g or demanding and is now focusing on love.
&arb &arbra ra::
'he’ 'he’ss bee been n gre great at sinc sincee she she got got hom home, e, she’ she’ss ope open, n, she she see seems ms free free,, she she seem seemss peaceful, yeah, approachable is a good word.
Cloe:
"hat’s gr great. #nd who naudible /: /:/0:1/2
#lbert:
have seen lots of light, lots of flamboyant, carefree, maybe a bit cautious cautious it’s all there is.
Cloe:
What do you mean cautious?
#lbert:
Well she had, over Christmas 3ve, she had some guess brea$ings of her past that she was trying to deal with as far as her mom goes li$e her biological mom and she had done some of that stuff that she’s been holding onto guess all that writing that she had put together and we went went through that process Christmas 3ve and thought it was very brave for her that, li$e her life there is two e(tremes as one side and there is this side right and they are so opposite, there is so much dar$ one direction, there is so much light the other direction
Clo Cloe:
!cea !cean’ n’ss bio biolo logi gica call mot mothe herr had had been been a dru drug g add addic ictt fo for mo most of her her lif life. e. "he "he fa father ther is referring to the difference between the biological mother’s environment, the dar$ side and this family’s environment, the light side.
#lbert:
&ut+
&arb &arbra ra::
&ut &ut thi thin$ n$ thro throug ugh h it it all all !cea !cean n was was able able to be hers hersel elff too too and and tha thatt is is the the firs firstt time ’ve seen !cean be herself around her mother in that situation. 4o you $now what mean? 'he wasn’t that you $now, she wasn’t that everything is o$ and feeling and stuff. !cean was herself herself and !cean was hurt through it and and !cean was able to portray that to her mom. Which thought
Cloe:
'o you saw your mother?
!cean: !cean: Yes Cloe:
!h didn’t $now that, she came here?
&arb &arbra ra::
Well Well she she was was in in tow town n and and so they they me mett up, up, we me mett up up wit with h her her at !cea !cean’ n’ss cou cousi sin’ n’ss place
!cean: !cean: 'ee the baby #lbert: Yeah they ust had a baby &arb &arbra ra::
'o she she want wanted ed to ta$e ta$e a litt little le gif giftt to to the the bab baby y and and to see see her her cou cousi sin’ n’ss and and stuf stuff, f, right?
#lbert: Yeah &arbr rbra:
!ce !cean is very dedicated to her family so
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng Cloe:
'o what happened? How was it with your mum?
!cean:
t was good because now have closure in the situation li$e understand it, because was li$e should tal$ to her because maybe it will help or should ust continue and do li$e tough love $ind of thing, li$e dismiss her and you $now she wanted a different $ind of love and through seeing her and who she is, well now $now li$e, can5t help her naudible /:/6: 7/2 li$e she is on her own path, so that is how its going to go.
Cloe:
We tal$ed about this with !cean about how she has been all her life trying to help her mother and actually not tal$ing to her mother was not reecting her. t was ust a different way of trying to help and so was concerned about, !cean you are a little girl still, you are not supposed to be the helper of your mother, adults help each other. You $now she has family, she has friends, it s not up to you
&arbra:
t about her own emotional state and she tries when we are arguing, she tries to help either me or him or even ust calling naudible /:/6:602 this morning, she is rubbing my bac$ to ma$e me feel better and love her and appreciate her but we5ve, since !cean5s come to our house, nearly 6 years ago now or 1 years ago? 1 years ago, you $now we5ve told her !cean please you are the child now, let us fi( stuff, let us, you $now all her friends swarm up to !cean because !cean li$es to fi( everybody and fi( all the situations right?
Cloe:
"hat 5s how naudible /:/8:792 !ne cannot under estimate the protectiveness that children have towards their children. n the past, !cean has always trying to be the helper to her mother to the point that she was loosing her own identity and direction in life. t is a good sign that she now seems to be letting go of that role. %ow the father began tal$ing about the event that !cean had shared with us previously. When he too$ !cean home from a party that she did not want to leave.
#lbert:
or me, am one of the people that naudible /:/8:6;2 and gives and so on and so on, so mean there are times that have as$ed her to change, when last heard the change when reflect and say am going to ma$e some changes myself, right? !ne of the big things that understood that she came bac$ and we were tal$ing about is, she had wanted to go somewhere and &arbara went to pic$ her and the day was you are not going to stay there and when she came bac$, &arbra will say to her, you should do something, you should do something, li$e somehow you should tal$ to us and went from being a passive, caring, #lbert naudible /:/<:=/2 and if you don’t li$e this, maybe you should leave but was trying to be somebody that ’m not and
Cloe:
Well, understand that, we all say
#lbert:
t too$ away that safety net that was always there. "hat naudible /:/<:6/2 was trying to please everybody.
Cloe:
"he father became tearful as he reali-ed his terrible mista$e. He should not have suggested that !cean should leave home if she didn’t li$e the parent’s rules. He e(plains how he is caught between the love of his wife and his desire to please her and his love for !cean and his wish to do the right thing by her. "his is a
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng common situation, where one parent is much more lenient that the other. "his situation is even more aggravated when one of the parent is a step>parent. "he father also reali-es that by suggesting that !cean could leave the home, he was destroying her most basic sense of certainty and security. !cean had already had to leave the mother, now she was facing the possibility of her father. #lbert:
don’t $now how naudible /:/9:6/2 and am sorry because became and thin$ as individuals we should be individuals* we shouldn’t try to do things that are against our grain that ma$es us, especially when it comes to our identity
Cloe:
When a parent ma$es a mista$e it is important to apologi-e, the apology is healing because it eliminates confusion and confirms for the child the difference between right and wrong.
#lbert:
always try to reach out and help her so many times my hands have slapped me naudible /:/;:062 from people that didn’t care about themselves didn’t understand how much care about ocean right? You $now wal$ to school at < or 9 years old, < years old, wal$ing 0 miles one day and ust one day ’m on my way to wor$ and see this $id and reali-e, its my $id and stopped and she is li$e, everything is fine 4ad, everything is o$’, her food is got hair in it and its li$e that situation went on for 1 years, could never do that at her age naudible /:/;:6=2
Cloe:
'he told me about all of that
#lbert:
"o have her now and to have all these stuff happen in our lives so fast, so @uic$ and so much, its ust li$e it blew me away, its li$e mean
Cloe:
Aet me tell you something that want to tell that you have to be very careful. 'ometimes our children relate more to what we say than what we actually do. 'o you have to be very careful about what you say you are going to do and then you don’t do because !cean has a tendency to fend for herself and so you came into the room and told her and maybe you wanted to live ust live, so she decided to run away, you really didn’t mean that
#lbert:
%o of course not
Cloe:
Yeah bet,
#lbert:
"his was two month before !verlapping /:7/:182
Cloe:
"his is important, you tal$ed about ta$ing a bat to her boyfriend?
#lbert:
!h yeah
Cloe:
'he wanted to ta$e the bat to school to beat up another boy.
#lbert:
Yeah, yeah
Cloe:
You actually didn’t beat anybody with the bat but she was ready to tal$ about ust li$e she was naudible /:77:/;2 tremendous to stop. 'o $now you don’t do those things as an e(ample but be careful about what you say, you understand what mean?
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng #lbert:
Yeah
Cloe:
You do?
!cean:
Yeah, than$s
Cloe:
naudible /:77:0<2 li$e that and you want to be li$e him and so but you have to be very selective, he tal$s a tough tal$ but he doesn’t do those things.
Cloe:
#s a parent, it is easy to forget that everything you do and say, serves as a powerful e(ample for your child. Who may ta$e your word, more literally than you mean them. n case this father made ultimatums and threats, and !cean ended up ma$ing those threats real. %ow ta$e a moment to as$ yourself, as a parent do you ever ma$e punishments or conse@uences that are confusing or they ta$e away your child your basic certainties about relationships? 3very child needs to have certain essentials they can count on no matter what, even if they misbehave. 'uch as love, their own belongings, their education, there future and their place in the family. f you begin to ta$e away these essentials, the child can become confused and ma$e bad decisions. %ow "ony and go bac$ to tal$ing about the difference about what the father says and what he actually does. What he actually does
"ony:
He is a lover and he does naudible /:70:102
&arbra:
&ut when you said fear and when he is scared he+
Cloe:
He tal$s of that, yeah.
#lbert:
’ve tal$ed li$e have been li$e vicious person it’s li$e the ultimate choice. mean don’t want have to ma$e that choice but ’ll verbali-e it, it’s li$e o$ay li$e don’t want to ever show you this stuff, right but please understand it li$e when was tal$ing say that will brea$ your feet, you cant run away, you cant wal$ and was prepared in my mind, was actually thin$ing that that’s how scared was, was li$e whatever have to do ’m going to do it naudible /:7=:0/2 step li$ely enough maybe to brea$ a toe or something but the same way was seriously considering that was going to have to hurt this child’s feet so that she couldn’t run and mean didn’t+
Cloe:
t would be easier to ust loc$ her up in her room.
#lbert:
Well we tried that too.
Cloe:
!ne moment the father says maybe you should leave and soon after he is thin$ing of brea$ing her feet to prevent !cean from leaving. When the father alternates between these e(tremes, it is no wonder that !cean is confused about what’s right and what’s wrong and then stop hurting herself. What needs to change here is father’s e(ample for !cean. When people have pasts involving violence or drugs or alcohol abuse or when they have been in a war, they often struggle with memories of terrible things they had done long ago and this affects their behavior with their children. n the father’s case when communicating with his daughter,
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng his focus easily drifts to violence and thin$ing. #s s result, his communication with his daughter becomes violent. #s a parent it is very important that you separate from mista$es you made in the past and set powerful standards for the way you communicate with your child today. %ow ta$e a moment to as$ yourself when you get angry with your child, what do you say? 4o your words interrupt their basic sense of certainty in connection with you? f you do scare your children, do you later apologi-e so that they understand which behaviors are right and which are wrong. %ow let’s return to !cean’s family. #s a father e(plains what triggered him on that night to communicate the way he did to !cean. #lbert:
What ’d say, you $now the greatest thing about this is being able to sit down and be @uite honest with myself about what ’ve done and who am and deal with it because want to learn from this. never want to go through that. Well because that particular day li$e said was trying to be, was trying in my heart, was trying to say o$ay will show &arbra ust how tough can be and will show !cean+
&arbra:
Cause always say he is not tough enough.
#lbert:
will show !cean a side of me that she’s never seen before, right and thought well o$ay if you want to go there so badly and you would li$e to move in then it ust $ept escalating and worse for !cean, guess that was one of the safety+
Cloe:
!ne of the biggest challenges for parents is to assert the authority in a firm loving way without violence. n this case, the father had been trying to demonstrate his authority as a father but in fact he violated !cean’s sense of certainty of being his daughter. %ow needed to address one of the sources of problems in this family. "he mother and the father have different standards for how much they should monitor and critici-e !cean’s choices. am going to suggest a way that the parents can streamline their priorities for !cean so that everyone can feel less stressed about !cean’s behavior. 'o in relation to that, there is one thing that wanted to do to help you today here. "hat is ’d li$e you to thin$ of what are the three most important issues in relation !cean? )aybe four but better even than ust three, the three things that are necessary for you to feel confident that !cean is alright and ust three. "hey must be important so that we can get a way from her trying to deal with too much at the same time and because a $id can’t grow up li$e that, it is too much, its too overwhelming. 'ometimes parents correct a young person in too many ways and e(pect too much in too many areas. "he child can e(perience this not only as overwhelming but as a character attac$ where her very identity is threatened. When a child has over>reacted in a dangerous way to her parent’s communication as the case here, it is important to limit the parents through = or 1 most important baseline re@uirements that they will as$ of !cean. "hese are the baseline re@uirements for !cean to stay safe and out of trouble so that the family can avoid the type of problems that they have ust been having.
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng will as$ the parents to agree with each other on these three or four important re@uirements and in this way will guide them to what where they will be united in deciding on how to deal with !cean instead of divided and in disagreement that only e(acerbates !cean’s confusion. &arbra:
$now have a big part to play, ta$e responsibility for that. He’s been on me for even li$e, usually in the last, probably si( months or eight months since !cean went to high school, get off my bac$. Ai$e mean loo$ at what is important and what is not important today, and say that before and didn’t, do you $now what mean? Ai$e there is always so much stuff, li$e mean, ’ll catch myself before say it and say li$e, that is not important because this is happening because of me. love her to death
Cloe:
t’s a mother reflect !verlapping279:602
&arbra:
#lways, always and mean, and its more when get tired or am hurting or am feeling something then ta$e it over emotion, you $now big time. mean see that so ’ve wor$ed hard on that a lot last couple of wee$s since she’s gotten home.
Cloe:
What are the most important issues?
&arbra:
We were tal$ing about that the other day and mean came up with a couple
#lbert:
!ne was: stay at home and do your homewor$, its important and that is one of them. "he other one was, we should dialogue, at least tal$ for half an hour, the other one suggested is that we all hold hands and say, li$e !cean may probably say a @uic$ prayer of some sort and guess you had said four, guess the fourth will be stay physically fit. &ecause thin$ if you are physically fit, spiritually connected and you got dialogue as a family, mean
Cloe:
!$ay, all those things said, ust give him what the last few months have been, what are the most important issues that you wanted would thin$ for e(ample* not doing things that are illegal, would you consider that that is primary important, you don’t want her to go to ail
#lbert:
We wouldn’t condone alcohol in privacy
&arbra:
%o of course and mean honesty is huge and mean for !cean to be open and honest with us, whatever is going on in her life
Cloe:
"o the family. !$ay but the illegal part is important because as we were tal$ing, $ept, because wor$ in institutions for teenagers li$e you, $now what they are li$e. $ept imagining you in one of those places, it comes a point when even the fairy godmother here couldn’t get you out of it. am referring to 'age, "ony’s wife as !cean’s fairy mother. %ot being in trouble with the law is really important.
"ony:
"hat doesn’t come across as a surprise one because thin$ about all that stuff too but my way of thin$ing was o$ay. f loo$ after the spiritual stuff and $eep you,
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng if you can pray everyday and dialogue for half an hour a day and we’ve been through what we’ve been through, ust felt li$e, everybody is the law, its going to be one of the things you go by because you want to be clear headed, you want to be #W#A naudible /:07:=02 to be clear>headed enough because you can focus on various things that maybe important to you Cloe:
'o how can call this? !verlapping /:07:112 "hen the other things are the means to get by, naudible /:07:6/2 so that’s good. "here was another thing that you said, was honesty that combines with being able to go through the bible naudible /:00://2 everyday and fifteen minutes to tell you what she has been up to, what she is doing, communication part.
&arbra:
&ig time. "hat is so important, even yesterday when she got home from the mall, !cean’s gotten in to a habit, you $now, go to her room and closes the door and we don’t see her for an hour or two or whatever whenever she comes home and that started when she started, you $now smo$ing pot or whatever, coming home long after school. Yesterday when was changing Bacob’s naudible /:00:092 bolted right past us and said %o 'top 'top Come and show me what you’ve got’ right? Come and show me what you got to swing around that you $now, going into her room and closing the door. mean would li$e to ta$e the bolt off for a wee$ so can see her !verlapping /:00:6/2
&arbra:
'o what would be a good time to have the !verlapping /:00:6/2 love supper time.
Cloe:
We had the honesty and naudible /:0=://2 and we had not doing things that are really, what’ the third one?
#lbert:
really for a physical being ’m definitely concerned about how would want you to stay on top of that as far as gym goes and e(ercise and stuff goes.
Cloe:
"a$e care of her values.
&arbra:
"a$e care of her self
#lbert:
#nd we need !verlapping /:0=:0/2
&arbra:
'he wants to people over and wants to have friends over and stuff and there came a time even before all this happened )ichael and Cody then there was 'amantha and then there was )iranda and there was a whole group of people and everyday there was somebody else coming and !cean stopped wor$ing out, she stopped communicating with me li$e after school. 'ometimes we watched 4r. Dhil or !prah together and played with Bacob li$e all that stuff stopped and she was totally consumed with her friends and thin$ it’s really important even for me as individuals in the world is to ta$e time off for ourselves. 'ometimes !cean forgets to do that so we have to train them so o$ay now it’s stopped.
"ony:
'o what you are saying is relationship with her friends is going to be narrowed down.
&arbra:
t’s got to be balanced for her, !cean needs time to ta$e care of !verlapping /:01:712.
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng #lbert:
)onday to riday you are going to have school, you are going to have+
&arbra:
don’t agree with that. What you are saying, don’t agree with that at all.
Cloe:
Well e(plain to me.
&arbra:
Well he is saying )onday to riday no friends in her life. 'chool, family and !cean time. don’t agree with that.
Cloe:
"his is what mean that we have to agree on. &ecause if you agreed+
&arbra:
We tried that, remember we tried that and said didn’t thin$ that was fair. Ai$e !cean is going to school and !cean needs friends in her life so then start, o$ay she goes to gym )onday and Wednesdays, so she has to school and then she has showers and stuff so on "uesday and "hursdays maybe if it wor$s into her schedule and there is nothing else going on, she can have someone over !verlapping /:01:6<2
Cloe:
f we have three things, if you want to naudible /:06:/72 one of those three things then we can ma$e but if the schedule is not crucial and important, you are ust going to let her ma$e her own schedule. 'o that’s basically what you have to decide. s this of foremost importance? )aybe it is. t is up to you.
&arbra:
thin$ it is.
!cean:
thin$ what they are trying to say is important to them as li$e the third most thing me being li$e caring towards myself li$e physically or health wise or emotionally or whatever, ta$ing care of myself and ta$ing time out to do so and so during, are you o$ay and are you o$ay and forgetting+
"ony:
want you to be accountable for all your decisions. !$ay we are going to give you a format but want you to be able to ma$e the decision whether you are going to do my share of the night, sorry you cant call him because don’t have naudible /:06:6/2 and be e(cited about care, or you cant call me now because got homewor$, sorry you cant call right now because this is when we are going to have our supper, we are going to have our conversation+
&arbra:
"o do things that !verlapping /:08:/12
"ony:
#nd ma$e sure that your friends do not get above your rules or guidelines.
Cloe:
naudible /:08:772 you want her to be on a regular e(ercise program, you want her to+
&arbra:
Well she goes to the gym )ondays and Wednesdays and that’s important she does that.
Cloe:
#nd not maybe not ma$ing )onday to riday then not ma$ing it everyday+
#lbert:
t’s only )onday and Wednesday+
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng &arbra:
%o she’s tal$ing about her friends.
#lbert:
!h ’m sorry.
&arbra:
ts when it fits li$e+
#lbert:
Bust when it fits+
&arbra:
mean !cean can approach us and if we feel because we are her parents, if we feel that it is not appropriate, it’s not a good day, then !cean needs to learn to accept that and say o$ay you guys and carry on with her day.
Cloe:
Aet’s write down first what we already agreed on. We agreed on honesty, open communication
#lbert:
Drayer
Cloe:
#nd prayer. We agreed on not doing anything that is li$ely to naudible /:0<:002 and that includes alcohol, any type of drug* mariuana. 3ating fruits, any $ind of behavior, li$e violent behavior o$ay. 'o we are in agreement. What we are not in agreement is the point of ta$ing care of herself e(actly what that entails, what 4ad you are saying that you would prefer to have a regular schedule that is the same. &arbara is saying she would prefer to have fle(ibility. "he two of you would have to agree on this. %otice that constantly insisted that the parents agree. "he parents’ agreement with each other there is more important than the content of what they agree on. #lso they must both commit to none negotiation or even mentioning anything other than the three or four items that have been agreed on.
#lbert: Cloe:
!$ay, let’s ust try, let me ust try to clarify what ’m trying to say !verlapping: /:09:7<2
#lbert:
'o 70://, so anyway should call your friend naudible 09:012 to 7.=/. Can go to my friends? !$ay you can go to your friends. How long can stay at the mall and would say stay at mall up to five o’cloc$, will meet you at the food court. !$ay when get phone calls from want to stay later and she calls me and says 8 would come by and pic$ you about 8 and go and pic$ her up. 3very time these decisions are made, it’s the end, its final when go to pic$ her up, she says that, her ne(t re@uest was, can go to my friends place and spend the night. Well the reason was ust !verlapping 0;:/02
&arbra:
Well she is a child and wants to
#lbert:
understand, let me finish please. #nyway, now to me its li$e o$ay, you $now very well to me the biggest was the ifs’. f you can’t handle that conversation with your friends then you can as$ me, if you are not sure your friend can fit in the, naudible /:0;:092 please as$ me. What it does to me is it opens up dialogue between you and her which you going to have babies to loo$ after, you $now you are going to have naudible /:0;:=02 on the plate
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng &arbra:
&ut it’s a Yes or %o sweetheart, its not a big deal
#lbert:
"hese decisions, personally don’t feel li$e she can ma$e these decisions without causing her some problem of some sort.
&arbra:
!$ay, that is what you are trying to say. You hear what he said, that is what is trying to say. We have to come up, we are going to fi( that, we are going to tal$ about
!cean:
What naudible /:=/:/72
&arbra:
"he answers we going to get
#lbert:
Well the answers
&arbra:
#ll these @uestions that you as$ed that you are going to accept and you are going to get hurt that, no you cant go to the mall till 7:=/, no you cant go here, no you cant go to naudible /:=/:7=2 whatever dad or &arbs+
Cloe:
Aet me help you with this. thin$ it is important to understand that when !cean says can stay until 8:// or can go to a friend’s house, she is as$ing you to understand her situation. 'o thin$ it would be very good instead of ust saying no, it is important to say why.
&arbra:
!f course, right.
Cloe:
3(plain to me why you want to do that.
#lbert:
did that.
Cloe:
Aet me give you an e(ample, the night at the Halloween party that caused this whole turmoil, she had a special situation that she would really would have wanted you to understand which was that all her friends were fighting with each other then at ;:=/ they had ust made out so that it didn’t begin !verlapping /:=/:=62.
&arbra:
&ut Cloe the same with the Halloween party mean understand that but the thing with the Halloween party which had been going on for three nights prior to the Halloween party. 'o we told her for two days before the party please don’t as$ if you can spend the night !verlapping /:=7:702
Cloe:
Aet me finish my thought.
&arbra:
'he needs to understand that what we say is what’s going to happen not that’s right.
Cloe:
’m not saying no to that but what am saying is if she had a chance to e(plain then say no and let her e(plain her situation and then if still you have+
&arbra:
&ut !cean has to learn accept that because feel that she doesn’t for me.
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng "ony:
'he wont, if you ust let her e(plain but you don’t hear her, it wont ma$e any difference. 'he will suffer for her agenda.
Cloe:
"hat’s what mean here. "ony emphasi-es the importance of truly understanding. f the parents don’t ta$e the time of understand !cean’s needs and re@uests, then !cean will feel reected by the decisions they ma$e. f !cean feels reected, she will not be able to give the parents the respect and the authority they want. &arbie has been raising her voice and spea$ing over me because she feels that her rules for !cean are being challenged.
!cean:
"he thing li$e you ust said here if you can let me e(plain don’t feel your li$e, feel li$e you are saying you are o$ay. 'he can tal$ but the answer is still no.
&arbra:
Eight, of course not.
Cloe:
4on’t ma$e the decision hit her.
&arbra:
%o before. !verlapping /:=0:==2
#lbert:
#nd even important even though we said no three days before that, !verlapping /:=0:=82
&arbra:
#nd there’s lots of times+
#lbert:
'hould have been fle(ible and should have been yes. "hat would have been my ta$e on that.
&arbra:
What to stay at the party?
#lbert:
"hree days before that you don’t understand said no you don’t do this you don’t do that and then later on Halloween night it was li$e no you naudible /:=0:6/2 three days before that but that particular situation wanted to be fle(ible and say yes you can stay because would have understood that, how much important it was to her.
&arbra:
You would?
Cloe:
You didn’t say that.
#lbert:
told her.
&arbra:
4id you?
#lbert:
Yes.
Cloe:
%ow we see one of the sources of the conflict of Halloween night. "he father, the mother and !cean were in a triangle that prevented them from hearing each other’s real needs. n the interest of her parental authority, &arbie had made a firm decision not to let !cean stay later at the party. "he father would have considered letting !cean stay but &arbie had implicitly as$ed him to support her
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng decision and her authority. "he father was now in the middle position. Hearing opposite demands from both sides. f he lets !cean stay at the party, &arbie would have ta$en that he was subverting her authority and siding with his daughter against &arbie. 'o the father too$ his wife side with such force that he was no longer hearing or understand !cean who felt completely misunderstood and reected and we $now what happened after that. What the family needs is an agreement between the parents that is firm without not being reected of !cean needs and which is so strong that there is no ris$ or fear of the daughter standing between the parents, 'o what helps when counseling the teenager is if you understand that all of her communication+ &arbra:
'o get mi(ed messages because have heard ma$e your nos be no and your yes be yes.
Cloe:
'ay that again !verlapping /:=1:092
&arbra:
f have already said that you cant do that, right. Ai$e say !cean wants to go to a party on riday night. 'he as$s me today. "oday is )onday and for some reason whether the place is at or whatever say no sweetheart don’t thin$ so. "hen on "hursday she approaches me and says oh well this is going to happen and this is going to happen’ and even though feel more comfortable about all of them, am almost saying yes because have already said no thought you were supposed to stay at naudible /:=1:692
Cloe:
%o, why should you stay? %o people ma$e mista$es+
&arbra:
%o may be no and yes may be yes as parents. 4idn’t they ust air it last night?
Cloe:
don’t $now.
&arbra:
!bviously. !verlapping /:=6:772
Cloe:
Aisten to me for a moment first. Deople ma$e mista$es and change their minds all the time. #nd so if you ma$e a mista$e and you didn’t have more information then you can change. am challenging &arbie’s idea that parenting should be based on rigid rules rather than understanding the particular child or circumstances. n the military, rigid rules are necessary, in a family they are not. &arbie will respond by revealing the real reason why she has been ma$ing her decisions rigid and permanent.
!r even if you get more information you may simply !verlapping /:=6:192 &arbra:
$now some of my and this is going to be huge for me to say, some of my decisions are based on, feel li$e have control as a parent in this relationship. 'o sometimes when say that, want !cean to respect me for who am and don’t want to go bac$ and say o$ay sweetie because there are a lot of times she’s as$ed
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng and because have said no already, feel li$e have to stic$ to that for her respect. Cloe:
'he will respect you even more if she reali-es that you really understand and that even though you love her, understand her, you still have to give her guidance and you still have to ta$e responsibility and you have to be able to say no to protect her.
&arbra:
Eight.
Cloe:
&ut you have to understand that teenagers communication a lot of the time is ust an attempt to be understood because most girls this age don’t feel understood by their parents. "hey really don’t and whenever she says anything or ma$es a face or answers bac$ or whatever it is that she does, ust stop and thin$ for a moment. s there something she is trying to get us to understand? Aet’s listen to what it is, let’s hear her point of view and then give her guidance because unconditional love is not enough, you have to guide her. &arbie cries as she e(plains that the feeling underlying her rigid rules, is how difficult it is to feel accepted as a step mother. suggest that whenever !cean seems demanding or unreasonable, &arbie should practice understanding. "his is something that is easy to do and that will help her to feel better as a step mother. %ow ta$e a moment to as$ yourself, can you thin$ of something that your child does when they want to feel understood? Children are always testing their parents to see their love and understanding. "hey often do this by challenging you and watching whether you get angry or whether you will give them a loving response. %ow as$ yourself when your child tests you, how can you show them in a loving way that you are in charge and that you are ta$ing care of them? How can you assert your parental authority by understanding their needs? %ow !cean will share her point of view.
!cean:
Ai$e said before with the saying yes say no thing, if you do say no, you have to give me reasons. &ecause you are ust li$e no, why cause try to understand more view and feelings towards this li$e maybe li$e try to ma$e some more communication try to get it to go this way and this way. 'o we all understand the situation, right as full as possible. #nd if you say, if as$ed you if can go somewhere and you say no, ’m li$e why !verlapping /:=9:=/2
Cloe:
could say have a bad feeling !verlapping /:=9:==2
&arbra:
#nd then !cean will come bac$ with something else !verlapping /:=9:=92
Cloe:
'he is going to argue with you to death and she is old enough that she can tal$ anybody !verlapping /:=9:1<2
&arbra:
#nd that’s why have said for me it is easier for him to be the no and yes guy because it doesn’t go that much between those two, absolutely
Cloe:
naudible /:=;://2 are you in agreement with that or+
#lbert:
don’t have any problem because what did when went to the mall last time, she wanted to go to her friend. 'o as$ed her why and then e(plained to her
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng why it was important to me and for her that she should come home and it was o$ay and then &arbra:
"hey do well, agree they do very well+
Cloe:
%otice &arbie pointing out the bond of love between father and daughter. 'he doesn’t want to be the one to say no because she feels that as a step mother, she doesn’t have that $ind of bond. Well &arbie want to say something and in regard to !cean. t’s not her mother that is better than you. thin$ at this moment you have a baby and another on the way, you should choose whether you want him to ta$e this on or you want to do it, it’s your choice, you have enough on your plate. %ot that it’s, am suggesting that you he do what you tell him to do because you have a lot on your plate right now. %ot because don’t thin$ that you would be perfect, of course not. am empowered by &arbie to be the one to decide who deals with !cean emphasi-ing &arbie’s confidence and the fact that she is dealing with so much right now
Cloe:
!cean values connection with her family so when someone ma$es a decision, she wants to understand the reasoning and the emotions behind the decision. %ow "ony will give the family his perspective on their communication styles.
"ony:
"he first thing want to tell you is naudible /.17:712 when a teenager is tal$ing, they are not efficient. t5s not efficient. "hey are ust tal$ing to be understood and your ob is to be a detective naudible /:17:002 with anyone naudible /:17:0=2. "hey don’t want, they tell you things implicitly not e(plicitly. #nd so you have to become 'herloc$ Holmes to say what5s really behind all these pieces. #nd they are not e(pecting you, she does the same thing. You are supposed to read their minds, you are supposed to $now because they $now that a woman would understand, a woman would figure out all this implicit communication. naudible /:17:102. "his young woman is a lot. 'he5s bright as hell* she5s developed significance by being everybody5s healer and fi(er. 'he5s done it out of necessity with her mama you $now and with you and she is driven. 'econd thing is she is hardly significant because you5ve told her a story. You5ve told her a story a million times about loo$ing down this little baby girl and thin$ing what the hell am doing with myself and that5s where you change it, she is your angel girl, its the problem with that story. "he story is great but you cant living the past story with her. You got to see what she is today because what it does it has created for her she cannot and does not want to be. 'he $nows how to meld with any environment she is smart as naudible /:10:7<2 she $nows how to get the right answer to the right person, whether it5s me whether it5s Dine Dearl whether it5s you, she $nows how to do that stuff part of this is been survival instinct to her. 'he said so herself we tal$ed. Eemember she said you $now was li$e* 5m a chameleon she said. 'he $nows that and it5s very obvious to me it5s li$e she got on stage with one person and when you got on stage the second part you were you. You $now the difference, she $nows li$e you would choose presenting and then you $now part of naudible /:10:=;2 you $now was fitting in and doing all stuff to be significant and the !cean ust shows !cean, she is ust a total law. 'o she has become the fi( it person she has got a significance in that piece naudible
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng /:10:6/2 to that piece. &ut she has a little threat. "he threat is my father has an image of me and if 5m not that he will be destroyed. 'he is busy ta$ing care of you trying to be perfect and she isn’t perfect. 'he isn’t got to be perfect and fran$ly if she was you would be screwed over. 'he needs to be able to have her dar$ side and her light side. 'he needs to have that in ways that are acceptable meaning that you are parents agree at a appropriate the stage of her life but she got to be able to have that. 'he cant ust be your little angel girl every moment because then she has to be fa$e with you. #nd when being fa$e with you now got a real problem because now we don’t have a real relationship. #nd now she is losing so much trust because that5s her mother, she doesn’t want to be li$e her mother. ust want to be in that place and yeah she is finding herself trapped into being that to try to please you to ma$e everything o$ because when she was telling you about that night, interesting thing was she was telling me all that stuff and said what does all that mean? You $now what was that really about? What did that mean, what was your father doing and everything else, and then she went that was bad. #nd there was this little smile. Cloe:
"ony emphasi-es the importance of understanding !cean and her desire to help others. &ut most importantly to understand that as long as the father continues to hold !cean on a pedestal as the angel that saved him she does not relate to !cean as a human being with her faults and her dar$ side.
"ony:
5ll show you the film 5ll send the film. naudible /:11:792 smiling about and she was li$e don’t $now. 'o what was the smile about and she was li$e because you gave her attention because she doesn’t get any not matter what you do this will roll once in desperately for her mother and father. #ll humans do. 'he didn’t get it from her mother because her mother is the selfish person at this stage of her development she is the child so here is how she view her account. #nd with you she has to the perfect person also so that you will be o$ay, and you can feel li$e you’ve done a ob and you haven’t failed, you don’t go to that fear place you are into where you are so scared that you love her so much and you don’t want to fail so much that the fear state that’s all it was. t’s ust get the hell out of here and go somewhere else. Fo be with her, that’s not what you want, that’s what you are saying out of fear li$e survival will brea$ your feet. You have to understand that whenever you say to a woman this is not true to admit, you can say wa$e up, do that stuff bac$ and forth we can position anything we can even go toe to toe if that’s it naudible /:16:7/2 this conversation. said one time you do that naudible /:16:762 if you don’t do place last window and she went hysterical. You threw this little plate in the last window, what the hell naudible /:16:072 you threw your plate on last window but the female physiology you and process things when it’s words, it’s words. Certain words can get to emotion. #ll words can be processed emotionally by a woman. "hey feel those words* they ma$e a picture in their head. 'he pictured you smashing her feet ust trying to feel how my father, he loves me how could he do that?
Cloe:
"he father needs to understand that his teenage daughter processes language in a much more emotional way than he does as a grown man. When he says something violent, his daughter feels it in her body and even remembers it as a violent event. Clearly this is the case as !cean has acted on his threats.
"ony:
so part of the ob is her trying to be perfect so that you will love her. Her not wanting to fail and needing to be, what she is loo$ing for right now still she wants
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng freedom but thin$ that somehow she is smart enough to $now that even though am a teenager can do anything want am smart as any adult and so forth, don’t $now about life e(perience and ma$e mista$es here she, there’s a little bit of her that still respects me for naudible /:18:0<2 and from you especially. t was an e(cuse besides being perfect. %ow you have another woman in your life. 'he wants to be the woman in your life. t’s not bad, she ust wants to be more and you’ve got another and what is interesting is thin$ she feels loved by &arbie but &arbie also is coming out central. &ut and one of the naudible /:18:1;2 because you are not. &ecause what happens is you can be but you are also thin$ing all the time what she didn’t have, what she didn’t do the whole story of that is not lining you to be present now sometimes to ma$e decisions for what you are right for. "hat is what she is saying. 'he’s saying you are not tough enough on !cean. Cloe:
"ony refers to &arbie as command central because she has ta$en such a strict leadership position with !cean even though she is not the biological parent and even though it puts a strain on al of her relationships. "he leader in the family is the person who sees the family’s needs most clearly and ta$es action even when it means being firm or being perceived as the bad guy. "ony is telling the father that idoli-ing !cean and being so afraid of hurting her* he is disempowering himself as a father. When he doesn’t do the father’s ob, the mother has to step in and this creates the triangle where the mother has to be the bad guy in both relationships so much of the time. nstead the father has to honor his wife first and he must ta$e up a position of firm guidance with !cean then both parents would be united and would be able to handle any family problem.
"ony:
You have to honor your wife first and she’s got to learn to respect that so it’s li$e that when she’s a mom. "he great thing about this family is that there is magical see that there wasn’t in my family is that mom and dad in this family are meeting, share the blame, they come first, they come first no matter what. "hese $ids, thought this $ids would feel something but they don’t they all feel loved.
Cloe:
"ony is referring to 'haron and &ill who are "ony’s in laws and &arbie’s adoptive parents. "ony teaches that parents have to put their relationship first in the family so that the children grow up with an e(ample of committed love that they can emulate when they become adults.
"ony:
What is ama-ing though is that’s why she wants to love you completely, because she is there. What she will start to do is she’s going to angle towards the baby, she’s going to angle towards !cean and you are going to have a disaster. !cean will not grow up healthy because for sure the love of her dad as the primary love of her life and she can see that that’s more important honoring a relationship between those two and subconsciously that’s what happened with her. 'he will love her again and her husband will be a secondary love and she will never be happy. You cannot be happy without relationship. "here is a hierarchy to relationship. 'he has to $now that you honor this woman first and that you worship your daughter but this woman comes first always and would love and die for you as my daughter. 'he has to see that line. f she doesn’t see that line, you don’t help her, you hurt her and you hurt your wife and hurt yourself.
Cloe:
When parents don’t put each other first, there is a tendency to form what is called a cross generation coalition. # cross generation coalition is a coalition between a
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng parent and a child where the other parent feels disempowered and left out. or instance the father might find himself in a coalition with !cean against &arbie and &arbie might find herself in a coalition with her son against the father. "hese coalitions are conducive to conflict and disturbing beh avior because a parent is deliberately or unwittingly empowering a child against the other parent. # good family organi-ation is one where the hierarchy is clear. "he parents are in alliance and they are both in charge of their children. or this to happen, the parents have to put each other first. "ony:
#nd the more you do that, the more you triangulate with trying to fill !cean’s every need, love her so brother you $now, would bow for her, would do anything for her. &ut wont do anything for her that will hurt her including things that will ma$e me loo$ good. #nd said she might be Censored /:6/:=<2 about it later because love her, ’ve got to serve her and $now that she can be as bright as can be but she doesn’t have enough life e(perience to $now what it means. 'he can stand up and loo$ to circles among her friends you don’t wor$ circles around me. 'o can see what she’s doing. 'ome of it don’t see it but ust let it go place in everything else so your ob, you are the critical component here. t’s not &arbra, it’s your as &ill has said wow because am a man, have to honor my wife first. have to love my wife first instead of living in fear that !cean wont feel loved by )ya that’s Censored /:67:702 she $nows you love her, all you’ve got to do is not say the things you’ve said, what you are again and all you have to do is to ta$e the time and ta$e time consistently to be with her and then there wont be competition. &ecause she is not doing it consciously. t’s not li$e she is consciously trying to beat on &arb. 'he ust wants love.
Cloe:
now that "ony and have clarified the agreement between the parents, it’s time to return to the three or four re@uirements that !cean will have to follow in order for her parents to feel that she is o$ay. Eemember the re@uirements so far were first that she cannot do anything illegal and second that she has to be honest with her parents and able to discuss life with them. %ow am going to suggest another base line and re@uirement in which the parents should agree. !cean is too young to have se(. )any parents find this topic very difficult to address with a child but that is all the more reason to ma$e it clear in the basic re@uirement. don’t thin$ that !cean is physically, emotionally or spiritually ready, spiritually ready to have se(. n human beings se(uality has been aped at that’s why in marriages it is considered a sacrament because marriage is what unites a man and a woman in a se(ual relationship and when se( happens without that $ind of love and spirituality to a very young grown it’s damaging. 'o thin$ that you need to protect her from pre marital se(ual relationships with people there is not a spiritual conte(t of love because she is ust going to get hurt. t’s not a good thing.
#lbert:
spo$e to him.
Cloe:
Gltimately thin$ it is in her control.
#lbert:
t is in her control.
Cloe:
t’s not in anybody’s control, it’s her. #nd you have to understand that spirituality and se(uality are related. 'e( is not li$e you give a piece of ca$e li$e something
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng ust pleasant to do. t touches your soul and maybe fortunately you don’t $now the pain that comes from the se(ual relationship naudible /:6=:0;2 !verlapping /:6=:=72 too young for that. Cloe:
You have to protect her as far as possible and then have your thing. "here’s nothing wrong with se( when it is in a committed loving spiritual relationship.
&arbra:
'he is too young to e(perience that.
Cloe:
&ut of course she can have that. "his brings me to something else important that wanted to say today. We have to tal$ a little bit about !cean’s mother because one thing that concerns me very much is that when !cean decided to cut off her mother, and not to spea$ to her anymore, she became her mother, she began to do things that her mother does. #fter addressing the issue of !cean’s pre mature se(ual relationship and the pain that it could cost, address anther pain that has not been tal$ed about. ts true that !cean seems to have stopped trying to help her mother but then what she had began to do was even worse. #lcohol drugs and se( all behaviors reminiscent of her mother.
"ony:
Five us some e(amples.
Cloe:
#lcohol
&arbra:
'mo$ing pot.
Cloe:
'mo$ing pot, irresponsible behavior li$e wal$ing away, running away li$e live in the streets. 'o don’t $now what the solution is. thin$ that it would be much better for !cean to have some communication with her mother or some little thing that she does or something. We have to protect her from becoming her mother. "hat’s what am saying. When you cut somebody off, you tend to incorporate them. When you got mad at your father, you began to do the things that your father had tal$ed about that you would never do and !verlapping /:6;:=72 they are bad for e(ample ta$ing the bag of somebody else
!cean:
never naudible /:66:7<2
#lbert:
thin$ we sensed, we used to pray everyday and everyday we always put her mother naudible /:66:002 we’ve done this li$e si( or seven years great and then the last year because we were seeing so many changes going on with her mother, had gotten your ac@uaintance over and had seen !cean really so large and she was so filled with the relationship and then her mother fell off the way side and then see !cean slowly start to be turning again and was thin$ing li$e, and then would, li$e didn’t have a proper situation so maybe it might be easier if she doesn’t hear her name anymore and then it might be easier, o$ay don’t want you to tal$ing to her because you are always promising her stuff and you never do it. 'o we ust started wal$ing and then started reali-ing that after a period of time that thought my own hired heart said this one day, you $now what !cean, thin$ we should be buying your mother a gift and thin$ we should probably,
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng immediately it was li$e there was no hesitation at all and thought shit here go again and have made a mista$e. "ony:
How did you feel when you last actually saw your mom?
!cean:
t really, li$e said before, it’s closure honestly because what said before li$e had always been li$e what a loving mom because she would always be there whenever li$e try give and get in touch and all that shit whenever would respond to it in the same way because didn’t want to li$e ma$e her feel hurt, or reected or whatever, right. ust wanted to blah, blah, blah but because am not that way anymore, understand the way her mind wor$s and the way should be and the way things wor$ for the better, because me responding saying yes is not going to benefit anybody and that’s li$e lying to myself and saying that she does love me or she does miss me is li$e one of the first things she said when we got upstairs was well miss you so much and instantly am li$e don’t even go there, do not touch that, li$e don’t because it is bullshit. &ecause even when she was in li$e a career before they wouldn’t let her to tal$ to me because they told her li$e you are using your children. "hey don’t miss you because she was always need to tal$ to, she has to tal$ to me, she misses me, she needs to hear from me. li$e well she doesn’t, she $nows your life, she $nows that you love her and whatever she doesn’t need to hear you tal$ to her all that which was a reali-ation to me too but li$e which is li$e naudible /:6<:1<2 bac$ li$e whatever form the way and cant because it is dump and don’t want to do that because it is wrong, it’s not real and cant communicate with her li$e anyway because, li$e couldn’t tal$ to her about all this and stuff because there is no reason, cause it’s li$e, it’s not my mom, it’s+
Cloe:
!cean let me say something. "he big way naudible /:69:/<2 in her own way she loves you.
!cean:
!h $now.
!verlapping /:69:772 Cloe:
#nd when she misses you and wants to tal$ to you, she’s real not fa$e, she really loves you. t’s ust she has her own way of loving. t’s not a maternal way. Aet me tell you something some parents are real parents, li$e their father is a real dad* some parents are more li$e an aunt or uncle. 'o if you thought of her as an aunt not as a mother, she is your aunt, she is there sometimes and she is affectionate and maybe she is even funny and fun and then she disappears li$e an aunt or an uncle does, doesn’t show up for months, then appears again and she is loving as nothing had happened, that’s an aunt and you can still love her as an aunt. 'he doesn’t behave li$e a mother. "hat is all you have to accept
am giving !cean a way to love her mother as an aunt without being constantly frustrated and disappointed because the mother doesn’t behave li$e a mother. !cean:
%o she’s not an aunt or a mother. 'he’s ust li$e what she claims she is mom li$e not technically wouldn’t even consider because &arb put a, my mom has never been my mom. Ai$e she never tal$s to me li$e+
Cloe:
'he said naudible /:6;:=72
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng !cean:
%o she’s not. 'he is a stranger $now all too well because that’s why don’t connect with her, touch her because it is not real, it’s ust not you, it’s !verlapping /:6;:162
Cloe:
$now never said that.
!cean:
#nd $now she loves me and she may miss me but the reason don’t connect and tal$ with her is because there is no reason because $now she is on drugs and stuff naudible /:6;:662
Cloe:
Your pain, you would li$e her to be your mom naudible 7://://2 and that’s what causes the pain but maybe over the time, not today, not right now but at some point in time, you will recogni-e that she loves you all way that is more similar to an aunt or to a cousin !verlapping 7://:762
&arbra:
Well it ta$es years for a child to understand. ust understood that with my mother in the last five years after that she was my mother. Ai$e there was a time that hated her and thought she didn’t love me and thought $now my mother doesn’t love me, the only way she $nows how to love me, you $now what mean honey. t ta$es years !verlapping 7://:=12 my natural mother and it too$, probably naudible 7://:1/2 so 09, 0; years old, four years ago. finally understood my mother and now can accept her for who she is and you $now+
"ony:
naudible 7://:1;2 a controversy there that your mother called and you ust hung up the phone.
&arbra:
Hey ’m done with her now.
"ony:
'ee that, this is lady is this age, am done with her right, you $now what mean, and it’s their survival+
Cloe:
"he reality is you are never done with your mother and +
&arbra:
"rue.
!cean:
Yeah that’s what am saying, am not done with her but said no.
&arbra:
&ut !cean is not getting what, thin$ !cean is not getting what she means and of course !verlapping 7:/7:7;2 she is but
Cloe:
'he has naudible 7:/7:002
&arbra:
&ut when her mother is here and am across the room !cean mean in her heart she would love it from her mother, of course she would. t is beautiful that she feels that way towards me and am glad that can give her that but it is not the same for !cean. !cean needs her mother, !cean wants her mother+
"ony:
&ut the plain reality and this is the reality you’ve got to remember. "his is the spiritual faith you’ve got to remember. You’ve got to see that Fod gave you a mother and you’ve got to ta$e the oys of that and see that the mother that bore you physically is focused on herself and she is an aunt or uncle at best.
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng !cean:
When she was warm, it sounds li$e+
Cloe:
You can accept that and you can caress her also and ust say no there’s time. t’s a sign of affection.
!verlapping 7:/0:/;2 "ony:
Eemember that time when you dad had that conversation with you and the ne(t morning he went to naudible 7:/0:7=2 li$e what, how can he do that after last night? &ecause what we did last night was a scared little boy frea$ed out, feeling li$e he is failing you, don’t loo$ li$e that because someone is screaming at you. Ai$e every communication we’ve ever been will end up with one or two things, it’s either a cry for help or it’s a loving response. "hat’s all there is. When people are angry and piss you off, they are ust screaming out and saying oh feel insignificant, feel unloved, feel unworthy, feel’ that’s all they are really doing and so most people respond with a cry for help with a cry for help which is what he did. When he did that the ne(t morning, was he loving you this morning? He was loving you 7//, that was real love you guys gave the ne(t morning but you couldn’t feel it course of your rules. f he treats me li$e that it means you don’t love. You’ve got to get it in blac$ and white it is not that way sweetheart and your mother coming and doing this with you, what you thin$ is playing games with you, is ust you scared of opening up and feeling and you are hurting them seems li$e she loves you. t doesn’t loo$ li$e it and you don’t want to believe it and even if they smac$ your little tights, it doesn’t seem sincere but the tightness is she is beating herself up because she $nows she hasn’t been there for you, she’s hoping she can reach you but afraid she wont so she is ending up in ruins. Ai$e even at face value it doesn’t loo$ very loving when she is saying this. t loo$s what you call fa$e. What you are calling fa$e is internal pain. 'he beat, no matter how selfish she is, she beats herself on the ground and that’s why she still abuses.
#lbert:
naudible 7:/=:=62 so one moment she tries to show her affection, the other 76 years has been !cean has set on the outside of the door waiting for her mother to come out through that door and later what time she met her mother on mothers day only for her mother to show up four days later. 'o mean this $nowledge, or this system or this pattern has been so long that now all over sudden everybody is saying !cean you don’t have to feel this way and this is her, this is how she feels li$e, sha$e, get your hands off me, don’t touch me right. What we are saying to her the reason !verlapping 7:/1:/<2 she is trying not to be hurt again which understand.
Cloe:
!cean frustrations and pain about her mother stems from her wish that her mother would be able to be a real mother to her. #t some point in her life, !cean needs to come to terms with who her mother really is to accept that she cannot change her mother and to accept her as a member of her family li$e an aunt.
!cean:
&ecause it’s li$e she $nows or thin$s that will pull away. 'he $nows wont and that’s why pull away because she is so oh !cean love you, miss you’ and she is the same pattern as she has always been all my life.
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng "ony:
t won’t change her.
Cloe:
You are still thin$ing you could change.
"ony:
!cean do you thin$ that you can fi( her? "he only thing that is going to fi( her, if #nnie is going to fi(+
&arbra:
4o you hear what they are saying honey?
!cean:
do.
&arbra:
&y you trying to change, is another way of you trying to fi( your mom to come bac$ to how you want her to be.
"ony:
You thin$ you are getting leverage if you don’t give her love then she will change.
!cean:
Inow what, li$e it’s disgusting when she touches me because don’t want her to because it’s my part obviously want to help her but don’t want her to touch me.
"ony:
You don’t want to hurt any more. You are sic$ of being hurt by her. You are sic$+
!cean:
t’s the same pattern, it’s not my mom, it’s some Censored 7:/6:072 person. )y heart was li$e don’t touch me because it’s ust li$e some stranger trying to do that. t’s the e(act the same thing and don’t want that that’s why am li$e don’t, li$e whatever right.
"ony:
"he more naudible 7:/6:=62 the feelings are ust going to come up honey because you do want her love. 'o what you have to do is you have to accept her love and what portion she can give and not ma$e it fa$e and not be hurt and ust say this, you have to change your perspective and say $now it’s disgusting. have love here more than could ever want if could ust open and trust and ta$e a hold of this woman. &ecause this woman is choosing me, she isn’t ust choosing me for army. f you thin$ that Censored 7:/8:/72
#lbert:
#re you saying that when we are standing down, !verlapping 7:/8:/<2
"ony:
#re you hearing me right now?
!cean:
Yeah.
"ony:
'he is choosing you not because he is #nnie, and not ust to please #nnie. You get that?
!cean:
Yeah.
"ony:
You really !verlapping 7:/8:7=2
"ony:
&ecause she can do a lot to try and please her but thin$ you $now &arbra well enough to $now that she spea$s her mind in ways that are not always easier but she has chosen to love you. 'he’s afraid you don’t love her. You need to ta$e all that love and fear you have about your mother and give it to your mother. #nd $now your naudible 7:/8:==2 it’s not li$e she is a stranger, she is your aunt
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng because you are going to see her now and loo$s up for love she goes, you $now the love she goes most is the love she $nows how. #nd that will gradually soup. "hroughout all your pain you said she is a stranger all that it is doing is more hardening of your heart piece that’s going to hurt you anyway. "hat’s what worries me. t’s going to hurt you whether you $now it or not. What wor$s in a moment, it’s easier* it’s so much better that when you bottle up. You love me or not, you are in or not that’s the game that you played and that hurts you with your daddy that hurts you with &arbie that hurts you with you, that the game you’ve got to change. Aife is not blac$ and white. &lac$ and white is so much easier because it is easier to close the door open the door, right. #nd ’d rather close it if am going to be hurt. &ut honey you’ve got to open and open and open and the more you open and go through that pain, there’s more li$ely you are going to be. What you can do to tame the pain is you can do, what we are saying is that she brought me in this world, she is my aunt. "his is mom and you’ve got to give all your love and gratitude to her and ta$e all that sense you hear from her and if you $now anybody that fights with your mom and with her you’ve got to say. "his is real, this emotion that have appreciate it that have naudible 7:/<:1/2 that for her has won and $now in my face that she loves me and even though it doesn’t loo$ li$e. You’ve got to go to your faith, accept a little bit of love that she has and stop trying to change her. Dulling your love away from her is not going to ma$e you better. 'o it’s both+ "ony emphasi-es that not only that &arbie is the real mother but that &arbie had a choice and chose to love !cean and to be her mother. "he more !cean can accept &arbie’s love, the easier it would be for her not to live in pain about her biological mother and the easier it would be for &arbie to feel empowered and appreciated as !cean’s real mother. "ony:
#nd #lbert that’s also helping you, protect you. "he more these walls are put up of pain, the more pain you are going to be in because other robe you put your tiger bo( and pretty soon you are alone and there’s nothing you can feel anymore. "hese tears you are having are good feelings that they hurt, they are a good feeling. %ow you’ve got to say how can use this? 'he is my aunt, when she touches me, she does naudible 7:/9:=;2 when she gets out of her drug stupor she’s going to miss me. t hurts and want it always want that. have got to go to my favorite and say dad give me more and dad worships me maybe too much. %ot to worry.
#lbert:
Well there’s naudible 7:/9:662 what understand by you ma$ing a decision even though you are among strangers that by you ma$ing that decision it would ma$e your world easier to ma$e the same decisions on and am going to run away, o$ay am going to do drugs, o$ay am going to brea$ the law because they are going against the most sincere thing in the world that you need for identity and connection which is her mother and you $now the state that she is in, right. 'o that’s what thin$ am hearing. 'o basically what am hearing is please #lison, we understand how much you hurt and the pain is there but please !verlapping 7:/;:==2
&arbra:
"hat day your mama called and tal$ed to her right, and told !cean that tal$ed to her with love li$e tal$ed to her but when she needs to do stuff because have compassion for her because she is one of us, she is a drug addict and she is
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng sic$. $now that she loves !cean* $now she misses !cean and need, it disgusts me sweetheart when see her touching you. "ony:
#re you scared of the letter that you’ve given her is going to cause any unwanted clarity or+
#lbert:
Can tell you what her mother is? # mother is unconditional love. "hat’s what you wanted and your mom doesn’t have that right now.
Cloe:
&ut in her spirit she does.
"ony:
n her spirit she does but not in her behavior. "his woman wants your love so bad more than she will ever tell you or admit. 'he wants your love so bad, loo$ at the naudible 7:7/:762 when you said that. 'he wants your love because she loves you. 'he loves you and she’s afraid it’s not being reciprocated and she is damn fearful and she’s still trying to hoo$ you up with your mother. %ow if you want some demonstration of someone giving you some love here is somebody who wants your love. What we should be doing is going to bed, close the door but she $eeps thin$ing about what you need. Whether it’s her needs or not that’s what a mama does and anybody can be a mama or a dad. What it means is caring completely for you not even if it means a loss to her. Aoo$ at her face right now, loo$ at her. 'he worships you. You’ve got more love in this woman right here than you can possibly imagine. You want your daddy’s love, you want your mamas love it’s li$e it’s slapping your face and you are not seeing and it doesn’t loo$ li$e it because they want you to get scared. What do you get when you get scared?
!cean:
naudible 7:77:/82
"ony:
naudible 7:77:7=2 you’ve seen it. #nd how did you, that was hard, no, no, no and you are li$e you don’t understand me and all of this is fear. 'o you’ve got to remember every communication is a loving response or a cry for help. 'he is crying to you saying no, no, no. she’s saying please respect me, please show me that you $now that love you and that you will honor me. You don’t want her here to honor you by giving you the freedom of choices also and understand you but you are not ta$ing enough time to understand her. You ought to move her naudible 7:77:=<2 but you don’t understand her completely. f you understood her, you will be filled up* your mama womb will get filled.
!cean:
am glad you are, li$e told him li$e he has to stop to try and please me because for &arb is li$e forgotten about right here, is li$e respected well she should+ because li$e see that he can turn around and please me, he puts her at a lower level than me right. 4on’t do that because she is naudible 7:70:002 you’ve got to put her up there right.
Cloe:
!cean is telling the father that how upsetting it is to see him putting his daughter above his wife. "his confirms what every child feels but which few parents reali-e. 3ven though a child may want to be a parents favorite and may even attempt to engage one of the parents in a cross generational coalition, the child $nows for her own sa$e, and for the family’s sa$e, the parents have to put each other first. %ow listen to !cean’s e(planation to this.
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng !cean:
Which so am happy e(tremely that you’ve mentioned that because it’s li$e you don’t understand the process that way because you may not notice that wont accept it whatever but you have to understand li$e $now you love me, right li$e you don’t have to li$e tell her li$e no, li$e &arb wait don’t do that because you might hurt her and try and process everything that you do well because you don’t have to. You don’t have to second guess telling me something or mentioning something or doing something because $now you love me. You don’t have to show it all the time or put her in a lower level to ma$e me feel higher because don’t. don’t want you guys to stand wherever stand and we are all li$e e@ual level and you guys have to be li$e you said possibly li$e higher because you have to stay strong. &ecause if you guys have no communication or cant love each other, respect each other, if you don’t do that then you cant do the same towards me either. 'o you guys fight or whatever, you don’t respect her or tal$ to her down or she tal$s to you down and then you guys are angry anyway and you come out angry towards me. 'o really you have to put her above me, sometimes, all the times whatever the case maybe in order to ma$e the whole thing wor$. don’t feel bad at that either because understand that.
Cloe:
"hat’s wonderful.
!cean:
Yeah.
#lbert:
Honey that’s beautiful.
"ony:
"hat’s your own selfish self and you $now what will happen to her and that will always never as hard but it is priority for focus because that’s what you want from naudible 7:71:=02
Cloe:
"he basis of a happy family is a firm and loving hierarchy with both parents united in friendship, love and in their duty, guidance for the children. When !cean is as$ing the father to put &arbie first, she is as$ing him to diminish the triangle that was causing all the three of them so much pain. When the father is no longer constrained by his feelings for his daughter, he can honor his wife. When he is present in honoring his wife, &arbie can rela( more in relation to !cean because she can trust him to be a firm and loving father. When the father and mother are agreed on how they are going to parent !cean, then the challenges of raising a teenager no longer threaten their marriage and the structure of the family. %ow ta$e a moment to as$ yourself as a parent do you put your marriage partner first or do you put your children’s needs first? 4oes your partner feel respected, desired and loved over and above the children? 4o your children see you honoring your partner on a regular basis? or instance, when your partners as$s you to do something regarding the children, do you honor their wishes? 4o you support your partners re@uest or do you subvert your partners re@uest by o$ing about it? #s$ for the children’s permission as well even though they are not the parents, let your children tal$ you out of honoring your partners re@uest or dispute your partners re@uest in front of the children instead of supporting them first and discussing it in private later. When you honor your partner’s needs and wishes first, you support the healthy hierarchy that is essential to a functioning family. When you don’t honor your partner’s needs, even if you disagree with their re@uest, you are creating a cross generational coalition, giving the child more power than your partner.
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng %ow that the father is agreeing to ta$e on more of a leadership position, "ony is going to tal$ about helping &arbie to let go of some of the control and authority that she has been using. "ony o$es about &arbie’s authoritative communication style by calling it sergeant maor and suggest that they have a ceremony where they put sergeant maor to rest. "ony:
Well you tell me what’s the announce of yours, what are you going to do?
#lbert:
irst am going to go to my heart and am going to be the high hierarchy.
"ony:
%ot for me, from you heart.
#lbert:
rom my heart and &arbie will be number one and then will ust ta$e control. will ta$e control of the environment. Dlayfully, warmly in your heart
"ony: #lbert:
!verlapping 7:7<:092 ’m tal$ing about the decision ma$ing when it comes with of course naudible 7:7<:=82
"ony:
What about her, please her, love her and honor and+
#lbert:
am going to do what thin$ is best for her and am going to ma$e decisions, am going to ma$e tough decisions. !verlapping 7:7<:1<2 open as have ever been. Aot’s of naudible 7:7<:602.
"ony:
What could she do that will disappoint you enough that you didn’t love her?
#lbert:
Fossip.
"ony:
4oes she have to be the perfect angel child?
#lbert:
%o.
"ony:
4oes she have to be the one that !verlapping 7:79:772
Cloe:
the basis of a healthy family structure is the parents’ co leadership and guidance of the children. "hat means hierarchy where the parents occupy a higher leadership position in the family. When one or both parents don’t ma$e this a priority, or when the parents consistently put one of the children’s needs over the needs of the other parent, the family structure is wea$ened. n !cean’s family, the father was so afraid of reecting !cean that he wea$ened himself in his authority to father because he was always double chec$ing with !cean about what she was feeling, his leadership suffered. He was critici-ed by his wife and he found himself in an impossible middle position between !cean and &arbie where he had to appease !cean while proving his toughness to his wife. "his put &arbie in a vulnerable position and as a step mother because she consistently had to be the bad guy in relation to !cean. 'o on that Halloween night, when !cean was as$ing special permission to stay over, the father in order to prove himself to his wife spo$e in such a tough way to !cean that she became confused and violent and !cean felt the safety net of her family collapse. When
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Co py r i g ht� Robbi ns MadanesTr ai ni ng that happened, !cean felt that she had nothing to stay for and fell for behaviors li$e cutting, doing drugs and planning to run away. %ow by strengthening the communication patterns in the family, we have strengthened the family. "his can only happen when the mother and father are united in mutual respect and trust and when they put their relationship first so that they can be united and strong in dealing with the challenges of raising a teenager.
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