JOHN FRAWLEY THE HORARY'S MAJESTY (EXCLUSIVE) John Frawley is a teacher and a practitioner of traditional astrology. He is a brilliant and inspirational writer and the author of The Real Astrology, The Real Astrology Applied, The Horary Textbook and Sports Astrology. In 1996 Frawley founded the magazine, The Astrologer's Apprentice, and was involved in writing and editing for all 22 issues of the magazine. The last issue was published in 2005. John Frawley's first book, The Real Astrology, won the 2001 Spica Award for International Book of the Year. Since writing this book, Frawley has distanced himself from traditionalists such as Huston Smith and Ananda Coomaraswamy, and he has been critical of himself for following the 17th century astrologer, William Lilly's method far too closely. His first book was followed by, The Real Astrology Applied, which is a collection of notes and essays that explore in greater depth the practical application of the ideas he introduced in his first book. Frawley's third book, The Horary Textbook, is now the basic text used by teachers of horary in many countries. Horary is the branch of astrology that gives specific answers to specific questions by casting an astrological chart for the time of the question. Frawley's book, Sports Astrology, was written as an attempt to answer all of the questions that a student of astrology might wish to ask their teacher. Having an interest in sport is not necessary to reading the book or to applying the knowledged gained from the book. Frawley's books have been described as intelligent, provocative, and compelling. His books appeal to those who have a interest in the philosophy behind the concepts in astrology. The humour in Frawley's books is laugh-out-loud funny. Frawley himself has been described as a passionate, an excellent and a witty writer. Of his book, The Horary Textbook,The Mountain Astrologer magazine wrote that 'Frawley’s prowess as a horary astrologer is awesome'. In addition to writing, John Frawley has clients and students in six continents. He teaches a correspondence course through his website and has given astrological lectures all over the world. In essence, through his books, courses and lectures, Frawley is teaching traditional astrology and says that astrology is a sacred science. He describes tradition as a living thing that lives and breathes, moves and changes. Frawley goes on further to say that, tradition, like an individual, can grow in wisdom and a tradition that does not change is dead. He also states an awareness of the divine component of astrological knowledge and he is not afraid to mention God.
To anyone who is interested in learning astrology, Frawley recommends that you begin not by reading astrology books but by reading Marsilio Ficino's Book of Love. Ficino talks about love in all it's forms and never mentions the word astrology. Frawley also regards Ptolemy as an influential writer in the field of astrology. John Frawley was born in London. He is married to Anna, his wife of 30 years. They have two daughters, Joanna and Olivia and a grandson, Michael. John and his wife Anna have moved from England and are now living in Warsaw, Poland, John's spiritual home. His interests include art, music, history, poetry, religion and nature. Frawley is currently working on his fifth book, Horary Practice. His book, Conversations on Natal Astrology, has been put on hold. MyHoroscope recently caught up with John Frawley and he kindly agreed to give this interview. MyHoroscope: Your book "Horary Textbook" has recently been translated by Maria Galanou-Ksenou and published in Greek. This was a wonderful thing to do for the Greek audience that explores horary astrology. “The Mountain Astrologer” on a review about this book wrote: "Frawley's prowess as a horary astrologer is awesome." I don’t think that there is much more to say about it, isn’t it? Your “Horary Textbook” stands among the most famous horary books in an astrological library. Do you think that is “keep it simple” that makes the difference? John Frawley: Thank you for your kind words. My conviction in teaching is always that simple is best. So many of the problems in understanding come solely through overcomplicating things. I find that as my knowledge of natal astrology increases, my approach to charts becomes ever simpler, yet ever more precise. In my teaching, I stress the benefit of understanding the few basic principles, so you can own the knowledge yourself, rather than keep having to remember stuff you’ve been taught. MyHoroscope: Could you tell us a little bit about when astrology first captivated you? What were your initial thoughts about astrology and how do you feel about it now, after all these years? John Frawley: I became intrigued by astrology when I was about 12, because it offered a different model than what I was being taught in school. For instance, my schoolteachers would not have seen any connection between copper, chocolate, and Lisbon, but astrologically they are all ruled by Venus, so there is a connection. I still find it intellectually fascinating: it demands that we ask ourselves important questions, yet – because it must visibly work – it gives a hard reality against which we can test our answers.
MyHoroscope: Hearing terms such as, Traditional, Medieval, Modern, Classical and so on, invoke preconceived ideas in each of us. If we were to remove such labels, what are some of the main concepts that you would suggest to an eager and fresh mind who is enthusiastic about exploring astrology? John Frawley: Learn to think straight, know something about life, and keep your feet firmly on the ground! MyHoroscope: You've been quoted describing certain branches of astrology as "easy-listening astrology". Would you kindly elaborate our readers on how do you believe this has negatively affected astrology? John Frawley: It’s not so much ‘certain branches’ of astrology, as the great majority of work done in almost all branches. This was the same in the past as it is today. Most astrology is not done – and never has been done – for people who want a profound and possibly disturbing judgement. What most clients want, most of the time, is something to either cheer them up or reassure them: ‘Of course she loves you’; ‘No, things won’t always be this bad’; ‘You can’t help being like that, you’re a Virgo’. What is unfortunate is that this easy-listening astrology is so often taken to be the whole of astrology, and that textbooks, both ancient and modern, contain so much stuff that is worthless, except insofar as it produces such easy-listening judgements. MyHoroscope: As with any exploration of self, whether it is to gain a practical skill like learning to play a musical instrument or to gain a deeper and more spiritual understanding of oneself and the world around us, initially we may be face a brick wall. With perseverance, we hope that one day we will reach a point where the bricks will begin to slowly disappear one by one and we will be able to see through the wall and to the other side. Can you describe some of the factors that had contributed when you first reached that point in astrology? John Frawley: Having a family to feed! It concentrates the mind no end. It is not possible for me to work for somebody else, so the only option was to break through whatever barriers to gain sufficient mastery of what I do. MyHoroscope: There is a constant rivalry between the various fractions of astrology that in some cases produces quite a mix up. How do you hope this fact will be perceived by future generations?
John Frawley: People want many things from astrology. Same as some people want Michelin-star cuisine, some want McDonalds, and some want what Mama used to make. This has always been so and always will be so. MyHoroscope: The origins of astrology are found a long, long time ago, when our ancestors had observed and discovered very few things compared to the knowledge we have gained today. In your opinion, what is the potential for astrology that remains to be reached or hasn’t even been touched yet? John Frawley: Astrology is not about observing and discovering, but about thinking and understanding. So it isn’t a matter of the potential of astrology, but the potential of any individual’s understanding of astrology. The question is posed in terms that make sense only in a post-Baconian world. Ask this question to even the greatest of astrologers through most of astrology’s history, and they would not have understood what you are talking about. MyHoroscope: Why do you think we are so fascinated by the predictive astrology? Do you think that this is all there is to it? John Frawley: Heaven forbid! Prediction is one very small part of astrology, though an important one. It is, I believe, the acid test of an astrologer. We’re fascinated by prediction because we want to know: humankind is endlessly curious. Also, we want our hopes sustained and our fears muted. Sometimes there is a point in prediction – such as knowing I should take an umbrella with me – sometimes there is none. If we knew everything in advance, however, life would be hellish. MyHoroscope: Short of having the ability to time travel and having the opportunity to gain first-hand knowledge from notable and influential historical figures, we're all at the mercy of learning about the past from the interpretations of individuals like historians and their perceptions of an event or a concept. Interpretation of a specific event or idea can vary greatly from one individual to another. When researching the origins of astrology to gain a greater understanding of its relevance and its significance to modern astrology, how do you believe we can best distinguish between the valuable and less valuable information that is available to us? John Frawley: By plugging in the brain before we read. This is just as necessary with old texts as it is with modern ones. For an example, look at Abraham ibn Ezra’s ‘Book of Nativities’. He refers to earlier writers, but is endlessly saying ‘This is obvious nonsense!’ and ‘Hasn’t this person ever looked at a chart?’ So it is with books both ancient and modern. We read things like ‘Saturn in
(whatever sign) is xyz’. Saturn is in each sign for 2 and a half years. So everyone born during those 2 and a half years is xyz? I think perhaps not. People forget their schooldays, which they spent in a classroom with 20 or 30 others, with each of whom they shared various planetary characteristics. Yet the nature of these people differed so widely. MyHoroscope: Christianity, religion and atheism are intolerant of deviation from their core beliefs. On the surface, they appear to discourage any individual in their quest for personal growth when the boundaries of core beliefs are pushed. You've stated that you came to Catholicism through astrology. From your personal experience, what restrictions may be placed upon a Catholic in relation to practicing astrology and how can they be reconciled? John Frawley: The Church’s argument is that astrology invests power in the planets and thus devalues human dignity. The Church is quite right. Most astrology as practiced, written about, and, especially, as talked about does exactly that. Every time someone says ‘Of course I’m angry, I’m having a Mars transit’; ‘It didn’t work, because Mercury’s retrograde’; ‘Nothing will come of it: the Moon’s void of course’ or any other such statement, they are making idols of the planets and demeaning themselves. But there is rather more to astrology than that, and it can be practiced without demeaning human dignity. People usually think I’m joking when I say this, but I am completely serious: in my view, the most important living writer on astrology is the present Pope. See, for example, the profound and beautiful chapter Sacred Time in ‘The Spirit of the Liturgy’. MyHoroscope: Could you please tell us a few things about how we could evaluate the meaning of fixed stars in our birth chart? Is there a particular fixed star that fascinates you? John Frawley: The fixed stars can only be truly understood by understanding the myths that give the constellations their form. Once these are understood, it is remarkable how literally people live out the prominent fixed stars in their natal charts. I regret, but I cannot possibly give an example in a short space. My lectures explaining how to judge the stars, with many detailed chart examples, are now available on audio CD (in English): details from
[email protected] MyHoroscope: In the 4th Real Astrology conference held last year, you gave a talk about Venus. What is Venus' nature after all.? Did you manage to reveal some of "Aphrodite's" secrets?
John Frawley: Long, long ago, astrology differentiated between Venus as morning star and as evening star. She even had a different name as each. I made a tentative approach towards recreating this lost astrology. It brought up some interesting findings, but I have a long way to go before I can define these into anything communicable. Stay tuned, and I may come up with something. MyHoroscope: I must say, I did enjoy very much your article entitled "Electional Astrology". It is written in very simple and humoristic words but full of meaning and essence. Would you like to tell us more about the lunar astrology and lunar houses? Can they also be used elsewhere besides electional astrology? John Frawley: I met someone – whose name, unfortunately, I can’t remember – while lecturing in Australia. In a story quite different from most of ours, he said he had become interested in astrology while working as a fisherman and seeing how, at different stages in the Moon’s cycle, different fish would run. I tried to persuade him to write an article about this for The Astrologer’s Apprentice, but he never did. I suspect the Moon’s phases have rather more effect upon fish than they do on humans, however. The Mansions of the Moon, as we have them, are hopelessly out of date. They are tied to the movement of the fixed stars, but although the stars move, no one has ever thought to update the lunar mansions. Nor, in any text that I have seen, is it clear when the boundaries as we are given them were made, so we could update them ourselves. I don’t think this matters, though. Lunar astrology is important to nomads. They move about all the time, so have no fixed point from which to judge the Sun’s rising and setting; but the lunar phases and movement against the stars are the same wherever you are. We now practice a sedentary astrology, where the Sun is given priority. Unless we are to become nomads again, I don’t think we need mourn the loss of that nomadic astrology. MyHoroscope: There are modern astrologers who support that using the outer planets can provide us with further details and understanding of a horary chart. Since you are an expert in horary astrology, what is your opinion about their contribution? Have you ever checked also the fixed stars and Arabic parts, while reading a horary chart and if so what were your conclusions you came up with? John Frawley: I used to do far more work than was necessary with horaries, and would dutifully check fixed stars and Arabian Parts – until I realized how very rarely they play any significant part in judgement. In horary, less is most definitely more. I must have judged thousands of horary charts, and I cannot recall one where
Uranus, Neptune or Pluto told anything that was not more clearly shown by the seven visible planets. MyHoroscope: We eagerly await the release of your book, Horary Practice. Could you tell us a bit about your motivation that inspired you into writing this book and what we can expect? John Frawley: What I will do there is to walk the student, step by small step, through 100 or more example charts. The problem with a book is that you cannot ask it questions. My aim – in similar way to the chart discussions in Sports Astrology – is to answer every possible question the reader might wish to ask, clearing up every point of confusion. Of course, that is impossible: I have been teaching horary for almost 20 years and I still find students with new ways of misunderstanding things. But I hope the book will go a long way towards giving the student a practical work-out in the subject. MyHoroscope: Well, Mr. Frawley, those are all the questions I have for you. Is there anything else that you would like to say or stress out to our website members and visitors? John Frawley: Only to send my very best wishes. I have never been to Greece. I hope one day I will be able to come and lecture there. And to invite your readers to my Facebook page, where there are many articles and extracts from future books: John Frawley | Facebook Thank you for this interview.
