Jackson V AEGlive - Transcripts - June 25th - Gordon Matheson sports med-conflict of interest testimony

JACKSON V AEG LIVE June 25th 2013

Dr. Gordon Matheson

(Director of Sport !e"icine# St$nfor" %ni&erit' $n" Confict of Interet E)pert* +$intiff, E)pert -itne. -itne.

Continued direct examination ! "illiam #loss$

/. Dr. !$theon# hen e roe 'eter"$'# e ere t$in $out one of the e4$i $ p$rt of the troue $t the 6ront ch$in. 7ou 7ou re4e4er th$t8 A. 7e. /. An" I thin 99 Dr$in 'our $ttention to e)hiit 30:# i th$t here e ere hen e roe8 A. 7e. /. An" hich e4$i# pecific$'# ere e in the 4i""e of t$in $out8 $ou t8

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A. ;hi $ the e4$i fro4 <$n"' +hiip to Kenn' Orte$ on June 20th. /. A riht. An" 'ou,&e =ut 99 to put it in conte)t c onte)t o 99 ithout repe$tin e&er'thin th$t 'ou $i" 'eter"$'# 'eter"$'# h$t $ it $out thi e4$i th$t th$ t 'ou thouht $ i4port$nt8 A. -h$t I thouht $ i4port$nt $ <$n"' +hiip $ reconi>in the "ecine in !r. J$con, he$th $n" th$t he $cnoe"e" $c noe"e" th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" reco44en"e" continue" p$rticip$tion $t rehe$r$. An"# $o# th$t he reconi>e" th$t there $re confict of interet en&iron4ent# for e)$4pe# hich $ ph'ici$n cou" or in here he $'? The doctor is extremely successful (we check everyone out), and does not need this gig. He's totally unbiased and ethical." th$t $'# to 4e# th$t he reconi>e" th$t confict of interet $n" i$ i i4port$nt. /. A riht. No# No# i there $n'thin ee th$t 'ou "i" not t$ $out 'eter"$' th$t 'ou coni"ere" to e 4$teri$ for the purpoe of 'our opinion in thi e4$i8 enny, it is A. 7e. 7e. ;here, one 4ore thin. It, $t the &er' einnin of the e4$i here it $'?  enny, critical that neither you, me or anyone around this show become amateur !sychiatrists or !hysicians. So h$t th$t in"ic$te# to 4e# i $ in" of puh$c# hich i $ re4in"er th$t e h$&e $ ph'ici$n# Dr. Dr. !urr$'# !urr$'# $n" e "on,t nee" o4eo"' ee reiterin their opinion or rinin for$r" infor4$tion re$te" to !r. J$con, he$th.

/. -hen 'ou ue the or" puh$c# h$t "o 'ou 4e$n ' th$t8 A. +uh$c i $ or" I ou" ue to 4e$n $ "eire to contro or "eire to fiter the infor4$tion. /. An" h$t i the i4pic$tion of puh$c in $ confict9of9interet en&iron4ent8 A. ;he i4pic$tion 4e$n it pre&ent or i4it the ph'ici$n, in"epen"ent "eciion94$in for 4e"ic$ he$th9re$te" iue. /. An" for the purpoe of 'our opinion# 'ou re&iee" &$riou & $riou piece of teti4on'# teti4on'# "epoition tr$ncript@ i th$t correct8 A. 7e. /. An" "i" 'ou re&ie !r. !r. +hiip, teti4on' re$r"in $ teephone c$ he h$" ith Dr. !urr$' hort' efore thi8 A. 7e. Ms. %teins$ &'ection. (a)ue as to testimon!. *s he re+errin) to deposition or trial,





























/. O$'. An" i there $n'thin $n 'thin $out h$t !r. !r. +hiip $i" h$ppene" "urin the teephone c$ ith Dr. Dr. !urr$' th$t 'ou coni"ere" to e 4$teri$ 99 ithDr$n. I there $n 'thin $out !r. +hiip, teti4on' re$r"in the teephone c$ ith Dr. !urr$' on June 20th th$t 'ou coni"ere" to e 4$teri$ to $n' of 'our opinion8 A. -e# -e# I ou" $' $ ' it, not t'pic$ or it, not "eir$e in $ confict9of9interet itu$tion for o4eone ie $ te$4 oner or pro"ucer pro"uc er to e co44unic$tin "irect' ith $ ph 'ici$n. /. -h'8 A. ec$ue it $"" to the potenti$ confict of the "octor, in"epen"ent "eciion94$in. "ec iion94$in. It i infuence" or &io$te" in o4e c$p$cit'. /. An" "i" 'ou 99 i there 99 et, o $c to e)hiit e) hiit 30:. ;here, $nother e4$i up $t the top fro4 !r. +hiip to to peope 99 three peope# I,4 orr'# orr'# $t B? p.!. Di" 'ou re' on th$t for the purpoe of $n' of 'our opinion8 A. 7e# I "i". ;hi e4$i $'# fro4 !r. +hiip?  This guy is really starting to concern me. /.




























A. ;here $re e&er$ e4$i in thi euence. ;he firt th$t I ue" for 4' opinion $ fro4 John Fouh"$h to <$n"' +hiip on June 1th reportin $""ition$ he$th concern. /. A riht. -e,&e -e,&e $re$"' t$e" $out the firt one# Not ein $ Dr$4$ ueen u een e4$i. I there $n'thin ee $out th$t# other th$n h$t 'ou tetifie" to 'eter"$'8 A. Fe $i"?  enny said he was shaking and couldn't hold a knife and fork. f ork. enny had to cut his food before he could eat, and then he had h ad to use his fingers. enny said re!eatedly that m was in no sha!e to go on stage. He ke!t on going on and on about how no one is taking res!onsibility for getting him ready. #e #e might be getting beyond damage control here . So to 4e# th$t i $nother in"ic$tion th$t the he$th concern i eriou. /. A riht. An" An" "i" 'ou coni"er !r. +hiip, repone to th$t e4$i8 A. 7e. 7e. ;he repone $o&e th$t $'?  $'m not sure what the !roblem is, chemical or !hysiological . . hich $'# to 4e# !r. +hiip i reconi>in there, no ce$r "i$noi or i4preion of h$t the he$th proe4 i. /. An" h' i th$t i4port$nt to 'ou for the purpoe of con"uctin $ confict9of9interet $n$'i8 A. -e# -e# firt $n" fore4ot# in $n' itu$tion# incu"in port 4e"icine# e $nt to h$&e $n un"ert$n"in of h$t the p$tient, proe4 i. -h$t i the "i$noi@ th$t i# h$t pre"$te or e$" u to the proper tre$t4ent# or the effect of reoution of the proe48 So to not no h$t the "i$noi $n" tre$t4ent $re ut ti reco44en" th$t th$t $thete p$rticip$te in the $4e 4$e $oute' no ene. /. No# 'ou,re $$re# thouh# th$t !r. +hiip "i" 4eet ith Dr. !urr$' on the $fternoon of June 20th8 A. 7e. /. An" h$t i 'our un"ert$n"in $ to hether !r. +hiip recei&e" $n $ner to hi uetion to Dr. !urr$'8 A. -e# -e# 4' un"ert$n"in fro4 the tri$ teti4on' i th$t he h e "i"n,t recei&e $n $ner. /. ;he tri$ teti4on' of ho8 A. !r. +hiip. /. -h$t, 'our recoection th$t 'ou,re $in 'our opinion on8





























the f$ct th$t there, no "i$noi preent $t the point hen thee he$th concern $re ein r$ie"# ut 'et !r. J$con i ein put $c into rehe$r$# thoe $toether $re $ concern. /. No# if 'ou o to the ne)t e4$i on e)hiit 31B# 3 1B# !r. Gon$$re repon"in to !r. !r. +hiip# 'ou ee th$t8 A. 7e# 7e# I "o. ;hi i fro4 !r. Gon$$re to !r. +hiip# $n" it $'?  He is not a !sychiatrist  99 /. If 'ou o "on 99 A. I,4 orr'. /. 99 $ctu$'# to the one eo th$t. A. 7e. ;hi i !r. Gon$$re to !r. +hiip? Take the doctor with you. #hy wasn't he there last night% /. An" i there $n'thin 4$teri$ $out th$t ith re$r" to 'our confict9of9interet $n$'i8 A. 7e. 7e. ;o ;o 4e# it, 4$teri$ ec$ue  ec$ue !r. Gon$$re i $'in# ;$e the "octor ith 'ou. in other or"# it, $nother in"ic$tion of the eroion of the in"epen"ent "eciion94$in of the "octor. /. -h'8 C$n 'ou =ut e)p$in th$t8 A. -e# -e# to ;$e the "octor ith 'ou i $'in e $nt the "octor "oc tor 99 o e,&e $re$"' in"ic$te" in e4$i th$t the "octor h$ een rouht  rouht into the fo". -e -e $nt the "octor to co4e ith u to thi 4eetin 4e$n th$t e $nt to h$&e o4e input in the 4e"ic$ "eciion94$in. -e -e $nt to infuence th$t co44unic$tion or con&er$tion. -e -e $nt to e p$rt of it. /. Cou"n,t it =ut e th$t if 99 "i" 'ou coni"er it cou" e =ut et infor4$tion fro4 the "octor " octor $out h$t the proe4 i8 A. -e# -e# th$t in $n" of itef 4$' not e $ppropri$te. /. -h'8 A. ec$ue it ti cou" e interference ith the "octor, "eciion94$in. ;he "octor $i" $t one point# I $nt to ho" !r. J$con out of rehe$r$# $n" th$t, $ 4e"ic$ "eciion. So to ;$e the "octor ith 'ou in"ic$te th$t AEG ti inten" to 4$n$e the "octor, $cti&itie. /. No# in the conte)t# I," ie to =ut $ 'ou $out hether h ether the conte)t of thi p$rticu$r erie of e&ent 4$tter. An" 'ou tetifie" 'eter"$' $out the fin$nci$ confict of interet th$t Dr. !urr$' $ un"er. Doe th$t f$ctor 99 "oe th$t conte)t enter into 'our opinion re$tin to thi e4$i8





























/. No# i there $nother e4$i on the top of e)hiit 31B th$t 'ou coni"ere" to e 4$teri$8 A. 7e. 7e. ;h$t, the one fro4 +$u Gon$$re to <$n"' +hiip th$t $' 99 /. Other $' $roun"# ir. A. 7e. 7e. 6ro4 <$n"' +hiip to +$u Gon$$re? he i not $ p'chi$trit o I,4 not ure ho effecti&e he c$n e $t thi point. /. No# thi 99 Mr. #loss$ *+ * can as +or exhiit 30/ pa)e 1 to e rou)ht up. nd speci+icall! the +irst para)raph o+ that email.

/. -e -e ere =ut t$in $out th$t one. ;h$t $ the one o ne fro4 <$n"' +hiip to !r. Orte$@ i th$t correct8 A. I,4 orr'. -hich e4$i8 /. 30:. ;he e4$i fro4 !r. +hiip to !r. Orte$ $out not eco4in $4$teur p'chi$trit. A. 7e. 7e. I no the e4$i 'ou 4e$n# 'e. /. A riht. It, up on the creen# $ctu$'# $ctu$'# if th$t ou" hep 'ou $t $. A. Fere e o (in"ic$tin*. O$'. A. 7e. /. No# firt of $# the e)hiit 31B#  He is not a !sychiatrist # # ho "o 'ou un"ert$n" th$t to e referrin to8 -h$t in"i&i"u$8 A. !r. +hiip# I eie&e# i referrin to Dr. Dr. !urr$'. /. A riht. No# No# in co4p$rin or coni"erin e)hiit 31B 99 $n" 'ou h$&e $n un"ert$n"in $ to the ti4in of thee to e4$i fro4 !r. +hiip to !r. !r. Gon$$re# firt of $# $n" the e4$i fro4 !r. +hiip to !r. Orte$8 A. !' un"ert$n"in# the e4$i to !r. !r. Orte$ c$4e efore the one o ne to !r. Gon$$re ' 4$'e 15 4inute. /. A riht.































eie&e thee to e4$i $re 4$teri$ to 'our opinion8 A. -e# -e# in the firt e4$i fro4 !r. !r. +hiip to !r. !r. Orte$# he h e i re$' $'in# Don,t e $ "octor. -e,&e -e,&e ot thi co&ere". Dr. !urr$' i our "octor. 7ou 7ou "on,t $nt to e $n $4$teur p'chi$trit or ph'ici$n. An" then $ fe 4inute $ter# he, $'in# Dr. !urr$' i not $ p'chi$trit. I,4 not ure ho effecti&e he c$n e. -hich# to 4e# in"ic$te !r. !r. +hiip i on"erin hether the' h$&e the riht "octor# hether he c$n e effecti&e. So to 4e# thoe $re to &er' "ifferent opinion# ec$ue the one th$t oe to !r. Orte$ $'in#  &on't worry, we've got this covered, you don't need to worry about this or be involved @ @ the ne)t e4$i $'#  $'m not certain we have the right !erson. /. Fo "oe th$t 4$tter for confict of interet# if it "oe8 A. -e# -e# it ee4 to 4e <$n"' +hiip i $'in to "ifferent thin ithin the confict9of9interet en&iron4ent. ;he firt 4e$e to !r. Orte$ i to puh $c $n" $'# Don,t eco4e in&o&e" in thi. $t the $4e ti4e# he, $'in# I,4 not cert$in e "o h$&e thi co&ere" co &ere" the riht $'. /. An" h$t 99 'ou,&e re&iee" $ ut$nti$ $4ount of e&i"ence in thi 4$tter# h$&e 'ou not8 A. 7e. /. -h$t e&i"ence h$&e 'ou re&iee" th$t in"ic$te th$t !r. +hiip $tte4pte" to reo&e th$t iue8 A. ;here, $ coupe of thin. 7ou 7ou 4e$n the initi$ 4eetin8 /. An'thin. A. An'thin. ;here $ $ 4eetin th$t $ he"@ there $ $ phone c$ th$t $ he". Specific$' fro4 !r. +hiip# 'ou 4e$n8 /. 7e. A. ;he 4eetin $n" the phone c$. /. -e# ho "o thoe 99 i there $n'thin th$t h$ppene"# th$t 'ou,re $$re of# $t the 4eetin or the





























/. No# Dr. Dr. !$theon# there i $o $nother p$rt of 99 or re$te" p$rt to the troue $t the front e4$i ch$in# e)hiit 30. 7ou h$&e th$t in front of o f 'ou8 A. I "o. ;h$n 'ou. /. -h$t "o 'ou un"ert$n" e)hiit 30 to e8 A. E)hiit 30 i $n e4$i fro4 <$n"' <$n" ' +hiip to !ich$e $ne $n" John r$nc$# ;i4 Leiee# +$u Gon$$re. It $' $ coupe of thin in it. ;here, 99 firt of $# there, $ t$te4ent in the firt ine th$t $'# The doctor was fantastic. An" th$t trie 4e $ unuu$# ec$ue I ou" thin $ f$nt$tic "octor ou" 4$e $ "i$noi "i$no i $n" ou" no h$t the proper tre$t4ent i# o 99 /. -e# -e# i $ t$te4ent th$t 99 et, $u4e for the purpoe of 'our opinion th$t the "octor $'# ;here, no proe4. !ich$e i fine. Fe c$n o on to pr$ctice. I th$t $ "i$noi8 A. No# it, not $ "i$noi. /. -h$t i th$t8 A. ;h$t, =ut e)$ct' h$t 'ou $i" it i. It, uine $ uu$. Let, o on ith the tour. Let, o on ith the rehe$r$. /. A riht. No# No# "i" 'ou un"ert$n" 99 "i" 'ou re&ie $nother e4$i here !r. r$nc$ offere" to connect !r. 99 pro&i"e the n$4e of $ ut$nce9$ue couneor8 A. I "i". C$n I $' one 4ore thin $out thi e4$i8 /. Of coure. enny's hysteria A. ;here, $o# to 4e# thi continue" puh$c in here here he 99 !r. +hiip $'#  enny's will be in check . . An" $ itte oer "on# it $'# Things are not as bleak as enny's emails. o !r. Orte$ h$ preente" o4e 4e"ic$ infor4$tion# put it for$r"# -e nee" to e concerne" $ out thi he$th proe4 th$t I,4 itnein ith !r. J$con. $n" th$t i preente" ' !r. +hiip# or it, u$ifie" ' !r. +hiip $ h'teri$# not $ e$ $ it $'. So I thin in $ confict9of9interet





























/. An"# no# no# thi 99 !r. +hiip h$" $tten"e" $ 4eetin ith Dr. Dr. !urr$' $n" !r. !r. J$con ' thi ti4e. I th$t 'our un"ert$n"in8 A. 7e. /. No# I," ie to $ $ coupe of uetion $out# in confict $n$'i# ho 99 h$t in" of eiht 'ou put on the p$tient, interet# or the p$tient, on reuet. I t$e t$e it th$t $ $ port 4e"icine "octor# "octor# there 4$' e $ ti4e or to hen 'ou h$&e "eci"e" th$t it $ 4e"ic$' $"&i$e to t$e $n $thete out of the $4e. A. 7e. /. An" the $thete "i"n,t $nt to. A. Correct. /. F$ th$t e&er h$ppene" to 'ou8 A. ;h$t h$ h$ppene". /. -ithout i&in $n' n$4e or pri&$c' iue# c$n 'ou =ut i&e u $n e)$4pe8 A. ;h$t, $ co44on e)$4pe. ;here $re &er' &er ' fe $thete in the 4i""e of the $4e $ 4e $n" he$t of the $tte ho $nt to e re4o&e" fro4 th$t# for $ nu4er of re$on? ;he',&e prep$re" for the $4e@ it cou" e $ &er' i4port$nt $4e to the4. ;heir f$4i' 4iht e &iitin $n" in the t$n" for the firt ti4e. It cou" e th$t the' fin$' 4$"e the roter# ec$ue the p$'er $o&e the4 i in=ure"# $n" the' $nt to pro&e the4e&e@ it cou" e it, o4ethin th$t ou" infuence their ch$nce for in&o&e4en t in $ hiher e$ue the ne)t 'e$r. ut there $re ot $n" ot of preure to not e re4o&e" i44e"i$te' fro4 the $4e. /. An" h$&e 'ou 99 h$t i the ph'ici$n, roe in th$t circu4t$nce8 circu 4t$nce8 A the ph'ici$n, roe i to "o the riht thin oth in the hort9ter4 $n" for on9ter4 he$th $n" 4$e the "eciion $e" on thoe f$ctor.





























/. No# if 99 I $nt 'ou to $u4e# for the purpoe of 'our opinion# th$t Dr. Dr. !urr$' $ hire" ' AEG Li&e $t the ehet of !ich$e J$con. If th$t 99 if the hirin of Dr. !urr$' $ "one $t the ehet of !r. J$con# "oe th$t $ffect 'our opinion8 A. No. /. -h'8 A. ec$ue AEG Di"n,t h$&e to cre$te th$t $rr$ne4ent. ;he' choe to et up th$t tructure# $n" the' "i"n,t h$&e to "o th$t. /. Do 'ou h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in $ to ho uti4$te' $ oin to e reponie for Dr. !urr$', fee if the re$tionhip h$" continue" $n" the tour h$" continue"8 A. !' un"ert$n"in i th$t AEG, cot th$t ere fronte" ou" e recoupe" he n re&enue c$4e in fro4 the tour. /.




























A. 7e# I h$&e. /. An" there i $nu$e in th$t th$t 99 here Dr. !urr$' $' th$t he i pro&i"e hih u$it' 4e"ic$ c$re@ riht8 A. 7e. /. -h' i $ non4e"ic$ pro&i"er 99 ithDr$n. Fo "oe th$t $nu$e $ffect 'our opinion $ to $ confict9of9interet $n$'i# if it "oe8 A. It "oen,t $ffect 4' opinion. /. -h'8 A. ec$ue $thouh e e)pect e) pect $ profeion$ to oper$te $t $ cert$in e&e# hen p$ce" in $ confict9 of9interet en&iron4ent# the ree$rch ho th$t their =u"4ent i often $ffecte". /. If $ non4e"ic$ co4p$n' co4p$n ' chooe 99 ee to hire $ ph'ici$n ph 'ici$n to tre$t $ thir" peron# $re there tep th$t the co4p$n' c$n t$e to re"uce the ri of confict of interet8 A. 7e# there $re. /. Jut u44$ri>e the4# if 'ou c$n. A. ;he firt thin th$t I ou" "o# if I $ $ co4p$n' ie th$t# i I ou" o to $ cre"ie 4e"ic$ intitution th$t $re$"' e)it th$t "oe thi. 6or e)$4pe# I t$e" to o4eone fro4 the %CLA !e"ic$ center to tr' to put toether $ te$4 th$t ou" pro&i"e co4preheni&e he$thc$re. h e$thc$re. I ou"n,t nece$ri' tr' to "e&eop th$t e)pertie ithin the co4p$n' co 4p$n' hen it $re$"' e)it eehere. /. -e# -e# ho "oe th$t re"uce the ri of confict of interet8 A. It 4e$n th$t the 4e"ic$ "eciion $re in"epen"ent. ;he',re not tie" to the pro"ucer. pro"ucer. /. An" "o 'ou ee 99 $e" on 'our re&ie of $n' of the e&i"ence e&i"enc e in thi c$e# "o 'ou ee $n' effort $t































/. Goo" 4ornin# Dr. !$theon. A. Goo" 4ornin. /. I,4 oin to t$rt to"$' $cin up $ itte it to "e$ ith o4e of the thin e t$e" $out 'eter"$'. 'eter"$'. An" 'ou t$e" 'eter"$' $out the i"e$ of fin$nci$ confict@ riht8 A. 7e. /. An" 'ou tetifie" th$t o4eone ho nee" $ =o i 4ore ie' to $ct unethic$' th$n o4eone ho "oen,t nee" $ =o@ i th$t riht8 A. I thin there, the $4ount of 4one' in the fin$nci$ confict or in the p$'4ent $ e $ the nee" th$t peron h$# correct. /. So th$t, $ 'e# peope peop e ho nee" =o $re 4ore ie' to e unethic$# $t e$t $ itte it# th$n peope ho "on,t nee" their =o8 A. +eope ho nee" inco4e# 'e. /. ut# o&iou'# the &$t 4$=orit' of peope orin nee" the inco4e fro4 their =o@ riht8 A.






























/. 7ou 7ou "on,t eie&e the' "o8 A. I "on,t eie&e the' "o. /. 7ou 7ou "i"n,t h$&e to in p per4iion er4iion to h$&e 'our cre"it run hen St$nfor" S t$nfor" hire" 'ou8 A. No. /. An" ph'ici$n ho or $t St$nfor"# the' h$&e to "icoe if the',&e een ue" for 4e"ic$ 4$pr$ctice ut not if the',&e een in&o&e" in o4e other in" of o f $uit th$t, not re$te" to 4e"ic$ c$re@ riht8 A. I,4 not ure of th$t. /. 7ou 7ou "on,t eie&e o8 A. I,4 not cert$in hether the' h$&e h $&e to "icoe other $uit th$t $re non4e"ic$ or not. no t. /. O$'. So 'ou "on,t no one $' or $nother8 A. I "on,t no one $' or $nother. /. Di" $n'one $ 'ou to "icoe peron$ $uit hen 'ou ere hire"8































/. Dr. !urr$' t$rte" tre$tin !r. J$con $n" hi chi"ren $c in 2008 A. 7e. /. An" in 200 !r. !r. J$con $ p$nnin on oin to Lon"on for the ;hi I It tour8 A. 7e. /. +$nnin to rin hi chi"ren ith hi48 A. 7e. /. An" 'ou ou" $ree th$t# in ener$# $ co4petent 509'e$r9o" 4$n i u$ifie" to chooe hi on ph'ici$n@ riht8 A. 7e. /. An" !r. !r. J$con $nte" Dr. !urr$' to co4e to Lon"on ith hi4@ riht8 A. 7e. /. Fe peron$' reuete" Dr. !urr$' $n" $e" AEG Li&e to "o $ "e$ ith hi4@ riht8 A. 7e.































/. No# 'ou," $o $ree ith 4e 99 $n" e, t$ $ itte it 4ore $out thi $ter 99 ut =ut $ $ 4$tter of $rith4etic# Dr. !urr$' !urr$' $ oin to e p$i" 4onth'@ riht8 A. 7e. /. An" if the tour ere c$ncee" or potpone"# he ou" e ter4in$te"# $ the hoe tour ou" e ter4in$te"# $n" no one ou" e p$i" $n'4ore@ riht8 A.






























/. ut 'ou,re not $n e)pert in ener$ 4e"ic$ ethic outi"e of the port conte)t@ riht8 A. Correct. /. 7ou 7ou h$&en,t un"erone $n' $n ' peci$i>e" tr$inin in 4e"ic$ ethic outi"e h$t e&er'one "oe in 4e"ic$ choo8 A. No. /. An" 'ou h$&en,t puihe" in the $re$ of o f 4e"ic$ ethic# other th$n the $rtice e,&e t$e" $out $ itte it to"$' in the return9to9p$' "eciion in the port conte)t@ riht8 A. Correct. /. So 'our un"ert$n"in of 4e"ic$ ethic# it, f$ir to $'# i $e" prett' 4uch entire' on 'our or in the port in"utr' $n" thoe return9to9p$' "eciion# pu o4e iter$ture 'ou,&e re$"8 A. 7e. /. Do 'ou h$&e $n' i"e$ h' p$intiff pice" 'ou to tetif' $ $n e)pert inte$" of o4eone ith $ ro$"er e)perience in 4e"ic$ ethic8 A. I thin it, ec$ue the p$r$e ere the three9$' re$tionhip.

































/. Fo 4uch of ;r$&i +$'ne,8 A. Aout one thir" of it. /. An" "o 'ou no ho the portion of ;r$&i +$'ne, teti4on' th$t 'ou re&iee"# ho p$intiff "eci"e" h$t to i&e 'ou of th$t8 A. No. ;h$t $ =ut 4e re&iein $ thir" of it. I eie&e the' $&e 4e the entire tr$ncript. /. 7ou 7ou =ut "i"n,t et throuh $ of it8 A. Correct. /. Di" the' te 'ou to oo $t $n' p$rt in p$rticu$r8

































A. Correct. /. An" for 'our opinion in thi c$e# 'ou "i" not re' on $n' 4e"ic$ puic$tion $out the perfor4in $rt# ie "$nce $n" 4uic@ riht8 A. Correct. I h$&e puihe" $out cirue "u oei# hich i $ prett' $thetic perfor4in roup. /. So 'ou puihe" $out orin for cirue 99 or h$t "i" 'ou puih $out cirue8 A. It $ re$te" to 4e"ic$ con"ition to opti4i>e tre$t4ent $n" oo $fter their he$th. /. Di" 'ou or ith cirue perfor4er in co4in up ith th$t puic$tion8 A. I ore" ith peope th$t ore" ith cirue# ut not "irect' in their perfor4$nce# correct.

































/. ut nothin pecific to perfor4in $rt8 ;h$t, $ I,4 tr'in to et$ih here. A. 7e. Correct. /. An" in the port $ren$# 'ou h$&e $ &er' oo" un"ert$n"in of $ of the p$'er in&o&e"# $n" their roe@ riht8 A. 7e. /. I thin 'ou tetifie"# $t St$nfor" 'ou $ctu$' et up the 'te4 th$t h$n"e St$nfor" $thetic# $n" ho e&er'o"' or toether@ riht8 A. 7e.

































"octor 4iht e 4ore incine" to i&e out the free &erion r$ther th$n $ p$' &erion of 4e"icine@ riht8 A. 7e. /. An" thee in" of interet $re co44on@ riht8 A. ;he' $re co44on. /. Another one 4iht e $n inur$nce co4p$n'# the' on' $nt to p$' for one in" of tre$t4ent# $n" the "octor thin the p$tient nee" o4ethin ee@ riht8 A. 7e. /. So e&er' "octor h$ to 4$n$e thee in" of confict prett' 4uch $ the ti4e8

































/. No# in o4e int$nce# $ "octor, " octor, profeion$ "ut'# the' reuire th$t "octor to reit preure $n" outi"e infuence@ riht8 A. 7e. /. 6or int$nce# no 4$tter ho 4uch preure 'ou ere un"er $t St$nfor" %ni&erit'# %ni&erit'# 'ou ou" ne&er i&e $n $thete teroi" to oot hi perfor4$nce@ riht8 A. I ou"n,t. /. ec$ue it ou" e unethic$8 A. 7e.



































A. 7e. /. In 4ot 99 in 4$n' &erion of the hippocr$tic o$th# "octor further pro4ie th$t the' i not noin' $"4initer $n' h$r4fu "ru to their p$tient@ riht8 A. 7e.



































/. An" it further $' th$t? if $ confict "e&eop eteen the ph'ici$n, fin$nci$ interet# $n" the ph'ici$n, reponiiitie to the the p$tient# the confict 4ut e reo&e" to the p$tient, enefit. riht8 A.


































A. 7e. /. ;heir p$tient8 A. 7e.



































A. I,4 not ure I c$n tetif' $ to th$t. ut# 'e# I "o thin he &io$te" hi "utie. /. -here i the "out8 A. -e# -e# I,4 not re$' offerin teti4on' on the 4e"ic$ c$re th$t $ pro&i"e".



































/. An" then $fter r$"u$tion# $ "octor 4iht t$e on 4ore "et throuh $ 4ort$e# for int$nce8 A. 7e. /. An" if 'ou u' $ houe in c$iforni$# th$t 4ort$e i oin to e

































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































A. If he c$n# 'e. /. An" no 4$tter ho 4uch preure he, un"er# he ti h$ hi oi$tion to foo the hippocr$tic o$th $n" tre$t hi p$tient ethic$'# riht8 A. -e# -e# the e&i"ence i ho 'ou c$n,t itht$n" $n uni4ite" $4ount of preure. It, &er' "ifficut to. /. So 'ou no of o f pecific tu"ie here the e&i"ence ho th$t $ ph'ici$n, i $ co4pete' co4pro4ie" to the point the' h$" no choice8 A. I "on,t thin it, $c $n" hite# I thin it, "eree of e&erit'# $n" the re$ter the confict# the incre$e" ieihoo" th$t poor "eciion i e 4$"e. /. ut 'ou,re not $'in Dr. !urr$' h$" no choice here# riht8 A. Fe h$" $ choice# 'e. /. Fe h$" $ choice not to tre$t !ich$e J$con in $ 4e"ic$' "$nerou $'8 A. ;h$t choice 4$' h$&e een to forfeit hi =o# ut he h$" $ choice. /.
/. Dr. !$theon# e t$e" $ itte it thi 4ornin $out the i"e$ th$t 'ou eie&e th$t $n'one ho p$' for ph'ici$n er&ice h$ o4e in&o&e4ent in their c$re $n" o4e reponiiit' reponiiit' for the p$tient, c$re# correct8 A. 7e.





























the "octor# "oen,t 4$tter ho the' p$i"# "o 'ou the' h$&e the riht to infuence 4' c$re =ut ' p$'in8 A. 6or $ ine &iit8 /. Sure. A. No. /. -h$t $out for 100 &iit8 A. One ou" on"er h' h '# $n" I thin th$t, $ re$on$e uetion to $# h' $re the' "oin th$t. /. ;h$t, not the uetion. ;he uetion i "o the' the ' then h$&e $ riht or $n oi$tion re$r"in 4' c$re# =ut eteen 4e $n" 4' frien"# 4' frien" p$' for 4' "octor, &iit. A. Not nece$ri'# une there, o4e tructure I,4 not $$re of. /. An" if I p$i" for 4' he$thc$re ith $ cre"it c$r"# "oe "o e the cre"it c$r" co4p$n' h$&e h$& e $ riht to "ict$te 4' 4e"ic$ c$re8 A. No. /. An" if 4' or p$' for 4' he$thc$re throuh $ 4$n$e" c$re or throuh inur$nce# "oe 4' e4po'er h$&e the riht to "ict$te 4' he$thc$re8 A. No. /. So it, not =ut the f$ct of p$'in# riht8 A. It, not on' the f$ct of co&erin the cot# correct. /. F$ to e o4ethin 4ore th$n =ut p$'in for he$thc$re8 A. 7e. /. O$'. Let, t$ $ itte it $out o4e of the "ocu4ent th$t 'ou ent throuh 'eter"$' $n" thi 4ornin. An" the firt one I $nt to t$ $out $ the "r$ft contr$ct  eteen AEG Li&e $n" Dr. Dr. !urr$'. !urr$'. An"# p$4# if 'ou cou" put th$t up. It, e)hiit 33. Dr. Dr. !$theon# 'ou,&e re&iee" thi "ocu4ent8 A. 7e.





























A. I c$n,t rec$ if I h$&e. /. 7ou 7ou c$n,t rec$ hether 'ou,&e e&er e&e r een $ &erion & erion ith !r. J$con, in$ture8 A. Correct# I c$n,t. /. Fo 4uch ti4e h$&e 'ou pent on thi c$e8 A. Aroun" 100 hour. /. An" ith 100 hour# 'ou "on,t no hether the e' contr$ct in the c$e $ e&er ine" ' !r. J$con8 Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm !our honor. -ud)e$ &erruled.

A. I eie&e it $# ut I,4 not 100 percent poiti&e. /. 7ou 7ou eie&e th$t !r. J$con ine" thi contr$ct8 A. I c$n,t rec$. /. I, repreent to 'ou =ut for the $e of to"$' th$t he, not 99 there i no e&i"ence in the recor" th$t he ine" th$t contr$ct. O$'8 A. O$'. /. So et, $u4e th$t he "i" not in it# $n" $u4e th$t AEG Li&e "i" not in it. No# 'ou cite" $ coupe of "ifferent pro&iion of thi contr$ct 'eter"$'# riht8 A. 7e. /. An" the firt one 'ou t$e" $out $ p$r$r$ph 3. +$4# c$n 'ou o th$t th$ t up. An" th$t, here it t$te ho 4uch 4one' per 4onth Dr. !urr$' !urr$' i oin to e p$i"8 A. 7e. /. ut 'ou,re $o $$re of p$r$r$ph  of the $ree4ent th$t t$te th$t !r. !r. J$con h$ to $ppro&e the hoe thin# riht8 7ou 7ou c$n e$&e p$r$r$ph 3 up# p$4. I, e co4in $c to it. 7ou,re 7ou,re $o $$re of p$r$r$ph # riht8 A. 7e.





























$ree4ent i e)ecute"# riht8 A. -h$t point i th$t in ection 38 /. pro"ucer h$ re4it p$'4ent to GCA in the $4ount of 150#000 per 4onth to e p$i" on the $ter of the 15th "$' of the 4onth or fi&e uine "$' $fter the e)ecution $n" "ei&erin the $ree4ent. A. 7e. /. So 'ou ou" $ree $ ree ith 4e th$t the e$riet Dr. !urr$' c$n e p$i" i $fter the $ree4ent i e)ecute"8 A. 7e. /. An" 'ou =ut tetifie" thi 4ornin there i no e&i"ence Dr. Dr. !urr$' $ e&er e& er $ctu$' p$i" ' AEG Li&e# riht8 A. 7e. /. Do 'ou no hether !r. J$con $ p$'in Dr. !urr$' in 4$' $n" June 2008 A. I,4 99 I eie&e there $ teti4on' th$t he recei&e" o4e 4$ $4ount of c$h. /. So 'ou $re $$re th$t !r. !r. J$con p$i" Dr. !urr$' in !$' $n" June8 A. 7e. /. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' i"e$ e)$ct' ho 4uch !r. J$con p$i" Dr. !urr$' in 4$' $n" June8 A. I "on,t no e)$ct' ho 4uch. I eie&e it $ 4$ $4ount# perh$p pe rh$p in the hun"re" of "o$r. /. An" $re 'ou ure th$t, th$ t, the on' $4ount th$t !r. J$con p$i" Dr. !urr$'# !urr$'# or th$t, =ut h$t 'ou,re $$re of8 A. ;h$t, =ut h$t I,4 $$re of. /. So it cou" e 4ore8 A. It cou" e. /. In $n' e&ent# in thi ti4e perio"# AEG Li&e $ not p$'in p$ 'in Dr. !urr$'# !urr$'# $n" !r. !r. J$con $8 A. 7e.





























/. ec$ue it reuire Dr. !urr$' to perfor4 er&ice reuete" ' AEG Li&e8 A. 7e. /. -ou" -ou" 'ou $' it, foun"$tion$ to 'our opinion8 A. 7e. /. F$&e 'ou h$" the opportunit' to re&ie Sh$n ;re, tri$ teti4on'8 A. No. /. So 'ou "i"n,t ee hi teti4on' $out thi pro&iion8 A. Correct. /. 7ou 7ou "i" re&ie K$th' Jorrie, "epoition teti4on' $out thi pro&iion# riht8 A. 7e. /. ut not her teti4on' $t the cri4in$ tri$ 99 A. Correct. /. 99 of Dr. !urr$'8 So 'ou,re $$re# in $n' e&ent# th$t !. Jorrie tetifie" th$t Dr. Dr. !urr$' h$" pecific$' $e" her to ch$ne thi $nu$e to 4$e ce$r th$t the contr$ct $ 99 th$t er&ice ou" on' e perfor4e" reuete" ' the $rtit $n" not ' the pro"ucer# riht8 A. 7e. /. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' re$on to eie&e th$t !. Jorrie i not ein truthfu8 A. No. /. Au4in he i ein truthfu# $n" Dr. Dr. !urr$' pecific$' reuete" th$t the $ree4ent e c$rifie"# $n" AEG Li&e $ree" to o c$rif' it# then thi ou" not e $ $i for 'our opinion $n'4ore# correct8 A. -e# it, ti in there. /.






























e $ p$rt of 'our opinion# riht8 A. If there $ no reference to Dr. Dr. !urr$' ein $ner$e to AEG# then 'e# it ou" not e p$rt of 4' opinion. /. An" it ou" e $ prett' i p$rt of 'our opinion th$t "i"n,t h$&e $ foun"$tion $n'4ore# riht8 A. It ou" e $ p$rt of 4' opinion. ;hi i foun"$tion$# ut it $ $ p$rt of 4' opinion. /. ut 'ou "i"n,t t$e into in to $ccount !. Jorrie, teti4on' in "eter4inin ho 4uch to re' re ' on thi p$r$r$ph8 A. !r. -ho, teti4on'8 /. !. Jorrie, teti4on'. Sorr'. Sorr'. I pe$ in" of uiet' o4eti4e. A. Cou" 'ou $ th$t $$in# pe$e8 /. 7ou 7ou "i"n,t t$e into $ccount !. Jorrie, teti4on' in "eter4inin ho 4uch to re' on thi $nu$e8 A. ;o 4e# thi 99 the intention of thi $ th$t he ou" 99 th$t Dr. !urr$' ou" report to AEG@ ut it h$"n,t een ch$ne"# o to 4e# thi i 99 thi i $ "ocu4ent th$t in"ic$te h$t h$ t the intention $. /. ut 'ou,re $$re# $ren,t 'ou# th$t thi $nu$e oriin$' $ppe$re" tice in the "ocu4ent8 A.




























preu4$' th$t, h$t AEG inten"e". An" $thouh $thouh it $ correcte" in one p$ce# it ee4 th$t th$t# to 4e# $ ti the intent. /. So 'ou thin "epite !. Jorrie, teti4on' th$t he i44e"i$te' to" Dr. !urr$'# !urr$'# ou're right, you re!ort to r. ackson only# $n" ch$ne" the contr$ct# it $ AEG Li&e, intent th$t th$t $ not the c$e $n" th$t the' ou" contro Dr. !urr$'8 A. So4e of the e&i"ence point to th$t# 'e. /. So 'ou,re eihin the e&i"ence8 A. !' opinion i $e" on $ of the e&i"ence. /. A of the e&i"ence +$intiff, coune $&e 'ou8 A. 7e. /. ut not $ of the e&i"ence e& i"ence th$t, een preente" to the =ur' in thi c$e8 A. Not $ of the e&i"ence the =ur' h$ recei&e"# no. /. O$'. An" 'ou ou" $ree th$t the =ur'# =ur'# ho h$ een here for I "on,t no ho 4$n' 4onth no# i in the et poition to e&$u$te the e&i"ence in thi c$e# riht8 Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm !our honor. -ud)e$ &erruled.

A. 7e. /. No# $u4in $u4in 99 it $ $o proe4$tic# $n" e t$e" $out thi $ ot# $n" I "on,t $nt to o throuh thi too 4uch $$in 99 it, proe4$tic to 'ou th$t the "r$ft contr$ct cou" e ter4in$te" if the tour c$ncee" or potpone"# riht8





























/. An" it, poie th$t the tour cou" e potpone"# Dr. !urr$' cou" $o e potpone"# $n" then $ter on the tour cou" e reint$te" $n" Dr. !urr$' ou" h$&e hi poition $$in# riht8 A. It, poie# 'e. /. An" 'ou ou" $ree ith 4e th$t in $n' $n ' e&ent# Dr. !urr$' 4$e 4ore 4one' if the tour oe for$r" $n" !r. J$con i he$th' the entire ti4e# riht8 A. 7e. /. An" th$t e&en if the tour ere potpone" $n" Dr. !urr$' h$" to co4e $c $n" "o the tour# he ou" ti 4$e 4ore 4one' if the tour $te" $ oner ti4e# riht8 A. I,4 not ure I foo th$t. /. Let, $' h'pothetic$' the tour i potpone" $n" Dr. !urr$' "oen,t o on tour ith !r. J$con in the u44er of 200. I there $n' $n ' re$on to eie&e th$t !r. J$con ou" then not $nt Dr. !urr$' on tour hen he ent on tour $ fe 4onth $ter8 A. No. Fe 4$' ti h$&e $nte" to# correct. /. So it ou" ti e in Dr. !urr$', interet to eep !r. J$con he$th' $n" in $ oo" $ h$pe $ he cou"# riht8 A.




























A. It, poie# 'e. /. In $n' e&ent# he ou" e $ic$' in o4eh$t the poition he $ efore he ent on the tour# riht8 A. +reu4$'. +reu4$'. /. An" 'ou tetifie" e$rier th$t 'ou thouht !r. 99 or Dr. !urr$', $$r' of H150#000 $ 4onth# the p$nne" $$r'# $$r'# $ e)cei&e' hih# riht8 A. 7e. /. ut $n,t p$rt p$ rt of the pre4iu4# $t e$t $ccor"in to Dr. !urr$'# !urr$'# "eine" to 4iti$te the effect of c$nce$tion8 A. I,4 not $$re of th$t co44unic$tion. co 44unic$tion. /. So 'ou,re not $$re of teti4on' here Dr. !urr$' to" !r. !r. Gon$$re th$t he nee"e" nee" e" e)tr$ 4one' ec$ue he h$" to i&e up hi pr$ctice# $n" th$t ou" 99 th$t ou" e $""ition$ cot for hi48 A. I,4 not $$re $$ re of th$t pecific$'. /. If 'ou ere $$re of th$t# ou" th$t $ter 'our opinion in $n' $'8 A. No. /. Jut nothin i $ter 'our opinion in $n' $n ' $'# $'# riht8 Mr. #loss$ &'ection> ar)umentatie !our honor. -ud)e$ %ustained. he itness$ hat ouldn;t.





























A. It $ 99 it $ 4e"iu4. It $n,t re$' 99 it $n,t re$' h$r". /. Di" 'ou h$&e to "o o4e p$peror8 A. 7e. /. Sho proof of 'our 4e"ic$ tr$inin8 A. 7e. /. Sho proof th$t 'ou ere icene" in oo" t$n"in in c$n$"$8 A. 7e. /. An'thin ee8 A. I h$" to t$e $ tet. /. ;o ;o 4$e ure th$t 'ou ere co4petent to pr$ctice 4e"icine8 A.






























/. E)$ct'. An" the "r$ft $ree4ent $ ree4ent ith Dr. !urr$' $o reuire" th$t he h$&e 4$pr$ctice inur$nce# riht8 A. 7e. /. An" th$t $ the reponiiit' of hi co4p$n'# GCA Fo"in# Fo"in# to ot$in $n" ecure# riht8 A. 7e. /. An" th$t, o4ethin th$t reponie ph'ici$n ener$' h$&e in p$ce# riht8 A. !$pr$ctice inur$nce8 /. 7e. A. 7e. /. An" th$t, $nother $feu$r" $$int profeion$ inco4petence ec$ue in or"er to h$&e 4$pr$ctice inur$nce iue"# 'ou h$&e to e $ re$ti&e' co4petent ph'ici$n8 A. In or"er to ho" 4$pr$ctice inur$nce# 'ou nee" to e $ co4petent ph'ici$n8 /. 7e# 7e# or 'ou,re oin to p$' $n outr$eou pre4iu48 A. If 'ou,&e h$" no pre&iou =u"4ent $$int 'ou# it, e e)peni&e th$n if 'ou,&e h$" =u"4ent. I































A. 7e. /. An" th$t, $ in# $ e# of iinne to t$e reponiiit'8 A. 7e. /. In other or"# if 'ou ent in noin 'ou ere oin to co44it 4$pr$ctice# 'ou pro$' ou"n,t pro4ie to e reponie for 'our 4$pr$ctice8 Mr. #loss$ &'ection to +orm !our honor. -ud)e$ Do !ou understand the 4uestion, he itness$ ?ot exactl!. Ms. %teins$ &a!. * can tr! to clari+! it.

/. ;he point ein if 'ou $re $ re$'# re$'# re$'# re$' $" "octor# $n" 'ou ne 'ou ere $ re$'# re$'# re$'# re$' $" "octor# it pro$' ou"n,t e in 'our et interet to pro&i"e in"e4nit' for 'our $" con"uct# riht8 A. I ue 'ou cou" hope 'ou "i"n,t et c$uht. /. So 'ou,re either $ ne$' "octor or tupi" "octor8































/. An" the firt one# I eie&e# i June 1th@ $n" the $t one $re $out June 20th8 A. 7e. /. Do 'ou rec$ th$t8 A. 7e. /. An" I," ie to t$ $ itte it $out o4e of thoe e4$i. 6irt of $# ere 'ou 99 hen ere 'ou pro&i"e" thoe e4$i8 A. I eie&e th$t I firt re$" thee $ p$rt of the K$ren 6$'e "epoition in feru$r'. feru$r'. /. An" "o 'ou re4e4er h$t ee 'ou re$" $roun" the $4e ti4e $ th$t "epoition8 A. I re$" the +$u Gon$$re Gon $$re "epoition# the <$n"' +hiip "epoition# $n" the Ste$rt 6inetein. /. An" thee 99 thee e4$i ere prett' 4uch ue" in $ thoe "epoition# riht8 A. 7e. /. So 'ou ne the' ere i4port$nt to +$intiff, poition $n" their un"ert$n"in of the c$e8 A. 7e.































A. I,&e ne&er thouht $out it. /. So 'ou 4iht e $n e)pert in re$"in e4$i ritten ' peope 'ou "on,t no four 'e$r $o8 A. I cou" e prett' oo"# 'e$h. I 4iht e. /. Do 'ou thin 'ou,re etter th$n the =ur' $t re$"in thoe e4$i8 A. I "on,t $nt to $' th$t. /. 7ou 7ou "on,t $nt to $' th$t ec$ue 'ou "on,t thin th$t# or 99 A. -e# -e# I,4 not ure. I "o thin I,4 prett' oo" o o" $t re$"in e4$i. I "o recei&e $ ot of the4# I rep' to $ ot of the4 on 4' itte phone $ "$' on. /. ut 'ou," $ree th$t the =ur' th$t h$ een ittin here for ee ee  i in the et poition to e&$u$te thee e4$i $n" their conte)t# riht8 A. 7e. /. Let, t$ $out e)hiit 5# "$h# B0# hich I eie&e i the firt one fro4 'eter"$'. If 'ou $nt to pu up the firt e4$i in thi ch$in# p$4# hich i the otto4 one. Dr. Dr. !$theon# "o 'ou re4e4er t$in $out thi e4$i 'eter"$'8 A. 7e.































A. 7e$h 7e$h 99 'e# it $' $ ' th$t. /. An"# in f$ct# on the 99 on the top e4$i on the ne)t p$e# it oe on to $' th$t Dr. !urr$' 99 not Dr. !urr$'# ut  r. ackson must take care of himself. #e #e need a healthy, rested and ready  at the +orum and ta!les for remaining rehearsals8 A. 7e. /. I there $n'thin in thi e4$i th$t uet to 'ou th$t !r. Orte$ $nte" !r. !r. J$con to $tten" rehe$r$ re$r"e of hether he $ he$th'8 A. No# there, nothin th$t $' pecific$' th$t. /. In,t the etter 99 troner i4pic$tion th$t he $nte" !r. J$con to e he$th'8 A. I thin the firt i4pic$tion i he, preentin concern $out hi he$th# h' i he e&en 99 h' i he e&en concerne" $out hi he$th $n" en"in $n e4$i. ;here, o4ethin he, concerne" $out. /.
































/. An" 'ou h$&en,t re&iee" the tri$ teti4on' of !r. Gon$$re# riht8 A. Correct. /. Are 'ou $$re th$t !r. !r. Gon$$re tetifie" he ne&er h$" $n' $n ' con&er$tion ith Dr. !urr$' here he re4in"e" hi4 ho $ p$'in p $'in hi $$r'8 A. 7e. /. An" 'ou,re $o $$re th$t !r. +hiip $n" !r. Gon$$re h$&e tetifie" th$t there $ $ 4eetin ith Dr. !urr$' o4eti4e in the firt h$f of June th$t t$e" $out !r. J$con, nutrition# $out 4$in ure th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" h$t he nee"e" to prep$re !r. J$con for the ho8 A. 7e.

































/. ut there, nothin in the recor" to in"ic$te pecific$' th$t the' h$" $n' 4e"ic$ infuence o&er Dr. !urr$'8 A. Nothin th$t I c$n rec$. /. 7ou,re 7ou,re =ut $u4in th$t h$ppene"8 A. Au4in h$t8 Sorr'. Sorr'. /. Au4in Au4in there $ o4e in" of infuence8 A. 7e. /. -ithout $n' $i in the recor"8 A. Jut h$t thee e4$i $i".

































A. 7e. /. I $nt to $ 'ou $out the $' Dr. !urr$' i referre" to in thi e4$i. A. O$'. /. -h$t "oe !r. +hiip c$ hi4 here8 A. Let 4e =ut re$" it for $ 4inute. /. %h9huh. A. I,4 not ure I 99 I no 99 I c$n ee in there h$t he, h e, c$in Dr. !urr$'. !urr$'. /. Do 'ou ee $n' $n ' reference to Dr. !urr$' in thi e4$i8

































A. No. /. Fe "oen,t $'# 'ou no# ;he "octor I hire" to t$e c$re of !ich$e# Conr$" !urr$'8 A. No# he "oen,t. /. Fe $' J$con, Doctor n$4e" Conr$" fro4 Ve$8 Ve$8 A. 7e. /. An" it, 'our un"ert$n"in# in,t it# th$t !r. J$con i&e" in L$ Ve$ Ve$ efore 4o&in to Lo Anee8 A. 7e. /. Let, o on to the troue $t the 6ront ch$in. It, e)hiit 30:# 30 :# i the firt one# I thin. -e -e t$e" $

































A. Di" 'ou $' th$t, the on' ph'iooic$8 /.


































A. Correct. /. ;h$t, the point I $ tr'in to et to. A. Sorr'. Correct.



































/. I it 'our un"ert$n"in th$t $ concert co ncert pro"ucer or pro4oter h$ th$t $4e $iit' $ iit' ith $n $rtit8 A. ;he' 99 the' cert$in' h$&e the opportunit'# 'e. /. ;h$t, 99 the' h$&e the opportunit' to uet# ut the' c$n,t $ctu$' or"er o4eone in the $' $ te$4 cou"# riht8



































A. -e# -e# I thin th$t, h$t 'ou $e" efore. I thin the $ner i ti no. /. An" i it 'our un"ert$n"in th$t one peron in $ uine u ine re$tionhip ith $nother peron c$n force th$t peron to 99 the firt peron to ee o4eone other th$n their on ph'ici$n of their chooin8 ch ooin8



































A. 7e. /. An" 'ou "on,t h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in th$t AEG Li&e $ co4preheni&e' 4$n$in !r. !r. J$con, 4e"ic$ c$re# riht8



































/. 7e. A. I "on,t rec$ th$t. /. 7ou 7ou "on,t rec$ !. Lee tetif'in th$t he to" !r. J$con# 7ou 7ou hou" o riht $$' to $n $n

































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































/. ;h$t, h$t 'ou un"ert$n"# th$t, h$t 'ou re&iee" to $e 'our opinion on8 A. 7e. /. An" the recor" th$t 'ou re&iee" "oe in"ic$te th$t AEG Li&e $n" AEG Li&e peronne 4$"e e&er$ $tte4pt to "iu$"e !r. J$con fro4 rinin Dr. Dr. !urr$' on tour# riht8 A. ;he recor" $' th$t8 /. ;he recor" th$t 'ou re&iee"# the "epoition. A. 7e. /. An" 'ou h$&e no re$on to eie&e th$t "i"n,t h$ppen8 A. Correct. Ms. %teins$ ?o !ou taled a moment a)o aout Mr. Gon)aare and his email as o+ 77 as it ma! 8th * thin, Ma! th 200, "hat exhiit numer as that Mr. #loss, Mr. Mr. #loss$ 1/5. Ms. %teins$ * can;t rememer i+ it;s ma! th or ma! 8th. Mr. Panish$ Ma! th.

/. No# thi e4$i# Dr. !$theon# t$ $out ten "$' "$ ' to in" "on Dr. Dr. !urr$', pr$ctice# riht8 A. 7e. /. No# i it 'our un"ert$n"in th$t !r. Gon$$re# $ concert pro4oter# ou" h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in $ to ho on it cuto4$ri' t$e to in" "on $ 4e"ic$ pr$ctice8 A. Fe 4iht# he 4iht not. I "on,t thin I c$n co44ent. /. ;here, no re$on th$t he ou" no th$t# riht8 A. 7e$h# 7e$h# he, not in the 4e"ic$ in"utr'# riht. /. An" "o 'ou h$&e $n' un"ert$n"in un"e rt$n"in $ to hether or not Dr. !urr$' $ $re$"' prep$rin to in" "on hi pr$ctice $n" in"in it "on e efore thi e4$i $ ent8





























/. So he cou"n,t h$&e een fu ti4e $t hi pr$ctice in $nother t$te ' th$t point $n'$' $n '$'## riht8 A. Correct. /. 7ou 7ou c$n t$e th$t "on# p$4. No# 'ou ere $o $e" $out !r. Gon$$re, "epoition $n" the f$ct th$t he cou"n,t rec$ h$t h$ppene" $t $ 4eetin in 4i" June# riht8 A.
A.




























A. In the neoti$tion# 'e. /. Jut in the neoti$tion8 A. Of the contr$ct. /. ut !r. !r. J$con, 4$n$er# !r. !r. Dieo# $ $$re of Dr. Dr. !urr$'# riht8 A. I eie&e o# 'e. /. An" 'ou re&iee" hi "ec$r$tion8 A. !r. Dieo,8 /. 7e. A. I "on,t thin I,&e een $ "ec$r$tion fro4 !r. Dieo. /. So th$t $n,t o4ethin th$t +$intiff pro&i"e" 'ou ith8 A. I re4e4er $ &oice4$i# ut not $ "ec$r$tion. /. So 'ou "on,t no  no hether or not !r. Dieo h$" $o $tte4pte" to t$ !r. J$con out of rinin Dr. Dr. !urr$'# ut Dr. !urr$' h$" inite" th$t he e ret$ine" 99 th$t !r. J$con h$" inite" th$t he e ret$ine"8 A. I "on,t no. /. An" 'ou ere $e" $ itte it $out confict $n" e)p$ine" ho the inur$nce co4p$n' 99 inur$nce in"utr' i "ifferent th$n thi c$e. ut there $re other confict here "octor fee preure# riht8 A. 7e. /. 6ro4 ph$r4$ceutic$ co4p$nie8 A. 7e. /. 6ro4 p$rent $n" chi"ren th$t 4iht h$&e "ifferent interet8 A. 7e.





























A. 7e. /. ut hether the' h$&e $ ot of hep in 4$n$in the confict or on' $ itte it or none $t $# it, ti their ethic$ "ut' to $ct in the interet of their p$tient# riht8 A. 7e. /. 100 percent of the ti4e# th$t, $$' the c$e8 A. 7e. /. No# et, ee. -e -e t$e" $ itte it $out thi i"e$ of hether or not 99 oh# of ho on !r. !r. J$con $ "eterior$tin for# riht8 A. 7e. /. 7ou,&e 7ou,&e not een $n' e&i"ence th$t !r. J$con $ i e'on" $out $ one9 to one9$n"9$9h$f9ee perio" in 4i" June# riht8 A. Correct. /. An" 'ou ere $e" $out !r. Fou"$h, e4$i# riht8 A. 7e. /. F$&e 'ou e&er re$" $ "epoition ' !r. Fou"$h8 A. No# I "on,t eie&e I h$&e. /. Do 'ou no hether he ther +$intiff e&er $e" !r. !r. Fou"$h h$t he 4e$nt ' th$t e4$i8 A. I "on,t no. /. -e -e t$e" $ itte it $out the confict of interet@ $n" 'ou eie&e th$t notitht$n"in the f$ct th$t Dr. Dr. !urr$' $ $re$"' in !r. J$con, ho4e 4utipe "$' $ ee# $n" $n " h$" $re$"' or"ere" propofo# propo fo# hi =u"4ent $ further co4pro4ie" ' neoti$tin ith AEG Li&e# riht8 A. 7e. /. An" 'our e&i"ence th$t th$t h$ppene" $ !r. !r. Gon$$re, e4$i fro4 4i" June $n" $i ch$e, teti4on' th$t Dr. !urr$' $ upet $fter $ 4eetin# riht8 A. 7e.





























A. Once# 'e. /. An" he 99 he puhe" $c hen Kenn' Orte$ $n" to" hi4# 'ou no# I,4 the peron in ch$re of !r. !r. J$con, 4e"ic$ c$re# c $re# riht8 A. Fe "i$ree" ith hi4# 'e. /. An" if 'ou $nt to pu up e)hiit 30 $$in 99 thi i one 'ou ooe" $t thi 4ornin. +u up the 4i""e e4$i# if 'ou ou". Fe $# $t e$t to o4e e)tent# in&o&e" in cre$tin $ che"ue th$t ore" etter for !r. J$con8 A. Dr. !urr$' $8 /. -e# -e# I,4 $in i th$t 'our re$" of thi e4$i8 e 4$i8 I "on,t $nt to put or" in 'our 4outh. A. e h$&e $ $ree" on $ che"ue th$t or# 'e. /. An" 'ou re$" !r. Orte$, teti4on' th$t Dr. !urr$' h$" $ctu$' $e" hi4 to 4$e o4e $"=ut4ent to the che"ue8 A. 7e. /. So in th$t int$nce# he $ $ctin contr$r' to h$t !r. Orte$ 4iht $nt ut in hi p$tient, interet# riht8 A. 7e. 7e. I,4 not ure of the re$on for the reuet# ut 'e. /. An" then he $e" !. Jorrie to 4o"if' the "r$ft contr$ct to 4$e ure it $ ce$r th$t he, on' t$in or"er fro4 !r. J$con# riht8 A. 7e# 7e# ut he ine" one th$t 99 /. So he ce$r' "i"n,t proofre$" c$refu'# c$refu'# riht8 Mr. #loss$ &'ection. =e can;t speculate to proo+readin). -ud)e$ &a!. %ustained. r)umentatie. Ms. %teins$ ll ri)ht.

/. An" then e t$e" $ itte it $out AEG Li&e $in for inur$nce recor"# $n" Dr. !urr$' $ctu$' refue" to pro&i"e thoe recor" ithout p$tient conent# riht8































A. In"epen"ent in the ene th$t he "i"n,t co4p' ith outi"e preure8 /. -e# -e# he "i"n,t "o h$t the concert pro4oter or concert pro"ucer ou" h$&e h$& e $nte"8 A. +erh$p# 'e. /. An"# in f$ct# Dr. !urr$', fin$nci$ interet# e t$e" $out# $ in eepin !r. J$con $ he$th' $ poie o th$t he cou" "o the entire tour# riht8 A. 7e# 7e# to the th e e)tent poie. /. It $n,t in hi interet to 4$e !r. J$con ic8 A. Correct. /. It $n,t in hi interet not to et !r. J$con the hep he nee "e" to et etter8 A. Correct. / it $ in hi fin$nci$ interet to eep hi4 he$th'# he$th'# ut $o in hi profeion$ interet# riht8 A. 7e. /. ec$ue not no t tre$tin !r. J$con proper' cou" hurt Dr. Dr. !urr$', profeion$ interet# riht8 A. 7e. /. It $ in hi ethic$ interet8 A. I "on,t no here thoe c$4e in# ut it $ "efinite' in hi peron$ p eron$ interet. /. Fi peron$# profeion$# fin$nci$ interet $ $ in eepin !r. J$con he$th'8 A. 7e.





























Ms. %teins$ ?othin) +urther.

Eurther redirect examination ! "illiam #loss$

/ "o 'ou no if AEG Li&e e&er ouht to uetion !r. !r. Fou"$h $out h$t he 4e$nt ' eiht ee $n" "eterior$tion8 A. No# I 99 I h$&en,t een $n' e&i"ence. /. F$&e 'ou een $n' e&i"ence th$t 99 either here in court to"$'# or $t 'our "epoition# or $n' other ti4e# here $n'o"' fro4 AEG Li&e e)pree" "i$ree4ent ith !r. Fou"$h# or $i"# -h$t $re 'ou t$in $out8 -h$t "ecine8 A. No. /. An" "epite 99 Dr. Dr. !urr$' h$" $ "ut' 99 h$" $ 99 too $n o$th to ren"er oo" 4e"ic$ c$re# c$ re# riht8 A.




























A. 7e. /. Do 'ou ee $n' $n ' e&i"ence $t $ th$t Dr. !urr$' $ i&en $n' in" of 4ech$ni4 or 99 or tructure to hep 4$n$e the confict8 A. No# I "on,t. /. In f$ct# "o 'ou ee e&i"ence hether AEG !$"e the confict etter or 4$"e the confict ore8 A. ;he' 4$"e the confict ore. Mr. #loss$ han !ou !our honor. Ms. %teins$ %tei ns$ ?othin) +urther +urther !our honor. -ud)e$ &a!. han !ou. ou ma! step don. he itness$ han !ou. -ud)e$ "ere e )oin) to end at F$00 toda! or do e hae somethin) else to do, Mr. Panish$ "ell e hae an hour depo> ut * ould plead ith 'ud)e i+ possile that e could stop ten minutes earl! i+ that;s oa! i+ eer!one is oa! ith that. #ut i+ e need to )o ten minutes e can pla! the depo +or ten minutes. -ud)e$ &a!. omorro at $F5. han !ou. =ae a )ood eenin).

9the +olloin) proceedin)s ere heard in open court outside the presence o+ the 'ur!:$

O$'. So to4orro 'ou,re p$'in "epoition8 -ud)e$ O$'.





























to4orro ith teti4on'# e c$n h$n"e $n' $ru4ent for th$t@ ut e "on,t $nt to "e$' i&e teti4on' to4orro. to4orro. It, the re4$inin iue on Dr. 6inetein re$r"in the "octor forec$t iue. -e,re ti t$in on th$t. -ith repect to !r. !r. Leiee# e,re $ et# e "on,t "o n,t nee" to $rue on th$t. hou r e$r'# e$r'# then e h$&e th$t to "o to 4$e up the ti4e. Mr. Mr. Panish$ So if for o4e re$on e finih $n hour I "on,t thin it i h$ppen# ut e,re prep$re" to "o th$t. So I thin e, h$&e enouh# no proe4 to fi the "$'. O$'. An" ho $re 'ou c$in to4orro8 -ud)e$ O$'. Mr. Mr. Panish$ +rince !ich$e J$con firt# $n" t$= J$con. Mr. #o!le$ An" then $o perh$p !r. Leiee ' &i"eo# if nece$r'# "epen"in on the ti4e. -ud)e$ A riht. ;h$n 'ou.

 e, et to hi4. Mr. Mr. Panish$ An"# $o# I to" the4 there, $nother one ine" up# t.J.@ ut I "on,t thin e, !r. +utn$4? -e ere to" th$t $ thur"$'. ho nor# e,re c$in prince J$con# !ich$e, o"er on# firt. I,4 orr'. Mr. #o!le$ ;o e ce$r# 'our honor# ;.J. Mr. Mr. Panish$ -hich ou" 'ou ie8 Ms. %teins$ I "on,t c$re# ut e hou" no ho, 99 Mr. Mr. Panish$ ;h$t, f$ir enouh. ;h$t, f$ir# $n" e i te 'ou hen e o outi"e ho i e econ" if e et to th$t# $n" ho i e thir" if e et to th$t.

B 9hour notice. Mr. Mr. Putnam$ -e $re$"' no ec$ue 'ou $&e u $ B9hour Mr. Mr. Panish$ ut I =ut $nt to 4$e it non the n$4e# th$t the',re co4in in. Mr. Mr. Putnam$ ;he',re co4in on to "ifferent "$'# 'ou,&e $re$"' to" u. Ke&in $re$"' to" u th$t.

Jackson V AEGlive - Transcripts - June 25th - Gordon Matheson sports med-conflict of interest testimony

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