Jackson V AEGLive- Transcripts - June 21st Dr. Charles Czeisler. Sleep Medicine, Harvard Medical School

JACKSON V AEGLIVE June 21th

Dr. Charles Czeisler Czeisler

Ms. Stebbins: just briefly, your honor. Yesterday we left off with a hypothetical uestion. !"# not sure of the plaintiffs" position. $ut ! believe where we left off yesterday was the Murray interview uestions rendered in the hypothetical unusable unless they are willing to stipulate to the ad#issibility of that interview, your honor. So ! don"t %now where plaintiffs are on that, but ! would as% that they withdraw the hypothetical if they"re not going to stipulate to that, and otherwise stipulate to that, and then we have the interview in. $ut ! did want to raise a couple other issues with that particular hypothetical uestion, very briefly, your honor. &ne is, there are so#e other facts that are wrong in it, and ! thin% so#e of these plaintiffs will agree with. Most notably that testi#ony related to 'ai (hase to... Mr. 'os%off: ! agree with that. ! was planning to correct that #isstate#ent when ! began. Than% you. Ms. Stebbins: and that there are also so#e other ones. There is ... for instance, they stated that there is an e#ail fro# )lif San%ey about Michael *ac%son+s health. The e#ail doesn"t #ention Michael *ac%son+s health in any way. There"s a ... you %now, they stated Ms. San%ey testified that on May -th and th, Mr. *ac%son was wearing heavy clothes and gloves. That"s actually not true. She said he wore heavy clothes at so#e point but did not specify the date. There"s little things li%e that. /hich leads #e to the other issue, your honor, which is, the law in (alifornia is that hypotheticals are perfectly proper, assu#ed facts are proper, but what you #ay not do is as% an e0pert to interpret evidence that"s properly within the a#bit of the jury. So what should be done, rather than say, assu#e there"s an e#ail that says this, and as% the e0pert to draw inferences fro# the e#ail as to Mr. *ac%son"s health, the proper course is to state the assu#ed facts that you would li%e the e0pert to co##ent on. !n this case... *udge: you want the e0pert to draw the inferences1 Ms. Stebbins: no, your honor. *udge: !+# not sure... Ms. Stebbins: well, that"s the proble#, your honor. The uestion that"s posed reuired the e0pert to draw the inference instead of saying there"s an e#ail that states the sa#e. )nd then the e0pert is reuired ... if he said, assu#e Mr. &rtega wrote an e#ail, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then the e0pert has to evaluate 'enny &rtega+s credibility, evaluate his ability to observe, deter#ine what he observed is accurate or not. )nd then based on that, render it. So the appropriate way to as% these uestions, your honor, is to say, assu#e that the evidence in this case shows that on these dates, Michael *ac%son e0hibited these sy#pto#s, you %now, that he was disoriented, confused, rather than going piece by piece,

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the ite#s of evidence, and the testi#ony. )nd so#e authority for that, your honor, is dameron v. Ansbro, 23 cal. app. 453, which %ind of goes into the idea and says it"s better practice not to read the evidence to the e0pert but to state it as assu#ed facts, what you believe the evidence has proved. So raising that issue, just because ! thin%, you %now, this issue #ay co#e up again with other e0perts. )nd particularly, given that so#e of the evidence listed was not uite right, the better course ... and ! thin% the clearer course for everyone is to as% the e0pert, you %now, assu#e that Michael *ac%son e0hibited these sy#pto#s, and the e0pert can say, o%ay, these sy#pto#s are or are not consistent with sleep deprivation. /hich leads #e to the third proble# with the hypothetical, which is, at the very end, your honor, they as%ed whether these sy#pto#s were consistent with propofol use. ! don"t believe the e0pert is ualified to #a%e that assess#ent. !f they wanted to as% the e0pert, are these consistent with prolonged sleep deprivation, he could answer that. So these issues, as well as the issues raised yesterday, your honor, which ! thin% the first one rendered, the whole hypothetical is proble#atic on its face. $ut the others, ! thin% ! just want to put on the record, those are all issues of concern with that particular hypothetical and do render it i#proper.

Mr. Panish: all right. 6irst of all, we don"t have to put the police state#ent in. !f we assu#e facts, there"s other ways to get the# in, nu#ber one. *udge: you will have to tell #e what those facts will be. Mr. Panish: well, first of all, you can"t say we have to do this or do that. That"s not what the function is. The purpose of a hypothetical uestion is based on assu#ed facts. So what we"re going to do, your honor, is !+# going ... he"s going to have hi# withdraw those two facts, the 78day usage and the weaning off9 o%ay1 *udge: &%, ! thin% there was just  so !+# clear what you"re tal%ing about, the 78day usage, and the fact that ... when you say, weaning off, are you tal%ing about when he said, ! didn"t give hi# two days1 Mr. Panish: right. *udge: that"s what ! re#e#ber. Mr. Panish: so those are the two facts that you had e0pressed so#e concern about an evidentiary basis later. The rest ... first of all, the e0pert... Ms. (ahan: your honor, #ay the witness be e0cluded during this1 *udge: yes. !s the witness in the courtroo#1 Ms. (ahan: yes.































Mr. Panish: so we can as% a hypothetical based on anything we want. !f the jury is going to be instructed, if there"s no facts to support it, then, you %now, you don"t have to give it any weight, nu#ber one.
*udge: &%, So if they ta%e out the two facts... Ms. Stebbins: if they ta%e out everything based on the Murray interview, then ! thin%, then, the hypothetical is inco#plete, your honor, because there"s no evidence fro# which the e0pert can draw the conclusion that Mr. *ac%son is not sleeping.






























injuries. =e"s #a%ing #ista%es, he"s hurting. =e #ust ta%e care of hi#self so he can #eet the schedule or there will be conseuences. that reuires this e0pert, who has never #et Mr. &rtega, who has never heard any evidence in this case, to ta%e these state#ents, evaluate what they #ean, attribute the# to #ean what they say, which #eans his #uscles were hurting or to draw fro# that inference that, you %now, he"s slow, or he"s sorer than usual, et cetera. !n other words... *udge: it"s preferable to have the lawyer interpret what the evidence is and as%ing the witness to agree with counsel"s interpretation of what evidence is1 Mr. Panish: that"s e0actly how you do it. *udge: it"s preferable to get the testi#ony or whatever piece of evidence. That #a%es it #ore accurate. Ms. (ahan: ! thin% either way, you still have this proble#. They"re sandwiching a whole lot of prejudicial interpretation of evidence in between a foundational pre#ise that is not ... they don"t have a good8faith basis to de#onstrate what will be put into evidence unless they"re willing to stipulate... Mr. Panish: we don"t need that. Ms. (ahan: and without that, there is no ... the hypothetical isn"t answerable. $ecause the hypothetical is, assu#ing he had propofol continuously for 7 days and was weaned off ... *udge: he"s eli#inating that. Mr. Panish: right. *udge: basically, he was suffering fro# sleep deprivation, and then the jury can decide if it"s a result of the use of the propofol in so#e way. So ! thin% if they eli#inate that 7 days, and then he stopped ta%ing it for the prior two days, then the hypothetical is o%ay, as long as they correct so#e of the other little things. Ms. (ahan: if they"re as%ing about sleep deprivation and not propofol9 right1 *udge: well, the jury can draw the inference that it"s as a result of the use of propofol, but. Ms. Stebbins: but the uestion can"t contain that, your honor, because their witness can"t testify as to whether this is fro# propofol use or not. Mr. Panish: wait a #inute. /e haven"t gotten there yet. They"re prejudging the uestion. /e"re going to do e0actly what you...































*udge: &%, So ! want to hear what the last uestion is going to be. Ms. (ahan: well, ! have the uestion as it was as%ed yesterday, your honor. >octor, do you have an opinion, based on a reasonable #edical probability, as to whether or not there was a causal connection between the propofol that was given by >r. Murray and the sy#pto#s #anifested by Michael during that period of ti#e1 *ust "yes" or "no" at that point. That+s not within this e0pert"s scope of e0pertise. Mr. $oyle: your honor, we"re going to start over with the hypothetical. !t"s going to be different. Mr. 'os%off: !+# going to start over with the hypothetical. ! will not reread the entire =ypothetical. ! will withdraw the assu#ptions that were based on Murray+s state#ent. ! will bring in other infor#ation to add. ! will then as% the doctor, does he have an opinion as to whether these facts are consistent and are caused by total sleep deprivation over a prolonged period of ti#e1 !s there any %nown agents that can cause prolonged sleep ... total sleep deprivation1 )nd they can object at that ti#e. $ut ! don"t thin% anything should be prejudged here. ! thin% what you should hear is what the foundation is, then they can #a%e their objection. Mr. Panish: and he"s going to ... we"ve changed the hypothetical. /e"re adding additional facts. /e"re not relying on the police state#ent, and he"s giving opinions about total sleep deprivation, which is in his area of e0pertise, which he testified about, and that"s what he"s going to attac% it fro#. Mr. $oyle: and he"s already testified that propofol causes no [email protected]. )nd [email protected]. Sleep and that propofol also ta%es away the body"s natural drive to achieve sleep. *udge: right. That"s true. Mr. $oyle: and that will lead to total hu#an sleep deprivation. Mr. 'os%off: all couched in his e0pertise as a sleep specialist. Ms. Stebbins: we have no issue, your honor, with the first uestion. The second is proble#atic where he says, is there any %nown agent1 The witness yesterday was allowed to give li#ited infor#ation on propofol, based on a proffer that >r. $rown, or another e0pert, will co#e in to support. $ut he"s not an e0pert to propofol and should not be continuing on down that path. The jury can draw whatever inference it draws, but they can"t as% this e0pert, are these caused by propofol1 Aoing bac% for a #o#ent to the uestion itself, there"s one other sort of #ajor factual proble# with the things they as%ed































Mr. Panish: isn"t this cross1 Mr. Mr. Putna#: Putn a#: no, your honor. *udge: no. (orrect the hypothetical. !f there is a San%ey e#ail that says that, correct that. Ms. Stebbins: the Supre#e (ourt, your honor, said last year that part of the court"s duty to guard against uestions that are unduly prejudicial, #isleading, that #ight #isrepresent or o#it i#portant facts, ! thin% we should try to connect up the facts before they offer... *udge: ! agree. So the San%ey e#ail, and now we have Travis Payne1 Ms. Stebbins: Travis Payne+s testi#ony, your honor. They said that he was there to assist M* when a ra#p lifted hi# up so he wouldn"t fall. Mr. 'os%off: ! can"t hear you. Ms. Stebbins: sure. Travis Payne ... they said in the hypothetical yesterday Travis Payne testified that M* was there with a ra#p so he wouldn"t fall. That, your honor, falls into the category of #isleading. They as%ed Mr. Payne about this, and he stated that it was the first night that they used the ra#p and that anyone using the ra#p would have been spotted because it was new euip#ent. Mr. 'os%off: you %now what1 ! will add that. Ms. Stebbins: he specifically rejected the inference... Mr. 'os%off: ! will add that. You"re pushing #e through an open door. *udge: &%, =e as in Mr. Payne withdrew so#ething or ... !+# sorry. Ms. Stebbins: your honor, they as%ed Mr. Payne, did you assist M* with a ra#p1 )nd what Mr. Payne said was, you %now, Mr. Panish as%ed, on that last date, how did you assist hi#1 So he wouldn"t fall on the ra#p9 isn"t that true1 Mr. Payne said, ! was there to assist hi# so he wouldn"t fall. =e had never ridden it before, and it was standard safety precautions. so in other words, he deliberately  he specifically rebutted the inference that it was because Michael was sic% or wea% or falling and said it was a safety precaution, it was new euip#ent. The way they as%ed it yesterday was only part of it and #ade it #isleading and therefore not proper. proper. Mr. 'os%off: you %now, ! wish you would just tal% a little slower.

































*udge: well, the testi#ony concerning the ra#p, you need to clean that up. ! thin% the best thing to do is leave it out altogether. Mr. 'os%off: !+ll withdraw the testi#ony fro# Payne about that. Ms. (ahan: and, your honor, as to the uestion about, can any %nown agent cause total sleep deprivation, if that"s an area where they plan to proffer hi# as having e0pertise, it"s not so#ething that we went into with >r. $rown. ! don"t thin% it"s appropriate for ... it would be new testi#ony for >r. $rown and certainly new testi#ony for >r. (Beisler, and ! don"t thin% he has the foundation for it. !"d li%e to voir dire on that. )nd, also... *udge: didn"t he testify it causes total sleep deprivation1 Mr. Panish: yes. Mr. 'os%off: he already said it causes total sleep deprivation. Mr. Panish: he e0plained why. Mr. 'os%off: and the only agent he %nows of that does, and he"s the sleep e0pert. Ms. (ahan: and he"s wrong about that, your honor, but we"ll get there on cross. Mr. 'os%off: and you can cross8e0a#ine hi# on that. Mr. Putna#: and if ! #ay, your honor, for the sa%e of the record, because what the courts have indicated should or should not be done with hypotheticals, which is that they don"t go into specifics, such as e#ails so they have to draw inferences, but rather give the facts on which they"re saying it. Such as you #ay say, presu#e he is cold, presu#e he is e0hibiting certain signs, as opposed to saying, and suppose there"s an e#ail fro# 'enny &rtega on a given date that says the following. The precise reason why the court has said this historically is for the reason that ... particularly with an e0pert, is what you"re doing is as%ing the e0pert to go into...































*udge: it"s understood you"re objecting to every fact in the hypothetical9 you"re objecting to the opinion9 you"re objecting to this witness"s ualifications9 you"re objecting to all ... !+ll note for the record those objection are there. Mr. $oyle: and, your honor, they also objected that his ualifications are so good that his opinion would be unduly prejudicial. Mr. Panish: that"s what Mr. Putna# said yesterday. So on one hand, they"re saying he"s not ualified9 on the other hand, Mr. Putna# told us yesterday that he"s so ualified that his opinion is unduly prejudicial. )nd they #ade their argu#ents and the objections, and the court is correct in the interpretation of hypothetical uestions. )nd can we proceed now1 Ms. Stebbins: your honor... *udge: yes. The concern is the final uestion. ! still want to hear about that. Mr. Panish: we just told it to you. They don"t object to that. Ms. Stebbins: the first one, we don"t object to9 the second, we do. *udge: and the second, again1 Mr. 'os%off: it"s going to be: based upon the evidence in the hypothetical, do you have an opinion as to what the cause of that total sleep deprivation was1 !n the hypothetical, we"re going to have so#e #ore infor#ation. *udge: &%, /hat is the #ore infor#ation1 ;et"s not hide the ball. Mr. 'os%off: #ore infor#ation1 =e died of acute propofol poisoning not in the hypothetical. There was intravenous set up in the roo#. There was an order for C.... Mr. $oyle: gallons.































Ms. (ahan: @#ery an $rown is, ! thin%, the Da Vinci

Mr. 'os%off: we do have hi# on our witness list. Mr. Panish: he"s going to rebut the triple hearsay of the #ediu# ghost that they introduced. *udge: all right. Ms. (ahan: >r. $rown... Mr. Panish: he"s in ?ye, r. (Beisler said on the stand, but we"re willing to enter so#e reasonable acco##odation to provide for >r. $rown"s testi#ony. Mr. Putna#: to be clear, what that #eans, your honor, is they %eep trying to li#it hi# to































*udge: all right. !"# not li#iting that. Mr. Putna#: than% you. Mr. Panish: we haven"t gotten there yet. ! don"t %now why we+re... *udge: !+# going to allow it with the understanding that $rown can lay a further foundation here. Ms. Stebbins: than% you, your honor. Mr. Putna#: than% you. *udge: if there"s a proble# with the hypothetical, raise it, and we can tal% about it again. DThe jury entered the courtroo# at 3:C4 a.#.E Ms. (ahan: and, your honor, just while he"s getting settled, so the record is clear, we"re going to #ove to stri%e the uestion fro# yesterday, and ! understand it will be refor#ulated with different infor#ation. *udge: ! agree. !"# going to stri%e the uestion and the answer. /e"re going to start all over again fro# that last uestion. Mr. 'os%off: but, your honor, ! hope you"ll allow #e, when ! get to the appropriate ti#e, to reincorporate those other parts so ! don"t have to go over the whole hypothetical again. *udge: oh, ! see. Mr. 'os%off: ! thin% ... unless the jury would li%e to hear it. $ut what !+d li%e to do is si#ply withdraw the assu#ptions, two assu#ptions, which ! thin% satisfies the court.































>r. (Beisler DSleep @0pertE

>irect e0a#ination by Mr. 'os%off for plaintiffs

Q. Doctor, yesterday hen I ent o!er your credent"a#s, I sort o$ sto%%ed hen I thou&ht there as 'ust not enou&h t"(e, )ut I d"d d "d ant to ... there ere a cou%#e o$ th"n&s that I d"d ant to

































Q. And you ere as*ed yesterday a)out &rants, and there as a &rant here you ere turned don. A. +hats true. Q. /as that ha%%ened throu&hout your #"$e A. It has. Q. +hat you a%%#"ed $or a &rant and d"dnt &et "t A. -es. -es. I th"n* I ha!e a %retty &ood )att"n& a!era&e. Q. -ou -ou ha!e a &ood )att"n& a!era&e /a!e you &otten so(e &rants "n your #"$e A. -es. -es. I!e )een $ortunate to ha!e )een aarded &rants. Q. O*, I dont ant to &o throu&h a## o$ the 0 years o$ your #"$e and your %ro$ess"ona# career, )ut #ets 'ust say, say, "n the #ast three or $our years, can you te## us so(e o$ the &rants you!e &otten A. Let I 'ust re$er to th"s. e##, e##, one &rant that e rece"!ed th"s... Q. Kee% your !o"ce u%.































Q. One &rant. Get a &rant $ro( the N:L

)@A objection: ?elevance. *udge: overruled. >r. (Beisler: yes. /e"ve just been awarded a grant by ... fro# the nil charity, a F77,777 grant, in which !+# the principal investigator, to screen all of the players on the 24 tea#s in the national football league for obstructive sleep apnea. They"re at high ris% for obstructive sleep apnea. So#ewhere between C and 3 percent of the players, particularly the line#en, who often have very #uscular nec%s, and only so #uch real estate in the nec%. )nd when the airway begins to be co#pro#ised, they can have an increased ris% of sleep apnea.

Q. +h"s s#ee% a%nea "s here a %erson sort o$ sto%s )reath"n& here...

A. -es. -es. Its one o$ the ;< s#ee% d"sorders, and "t "s assoc"ated "th cessat"on o$ )reath"n& dur"n& s#ee%. No, the )ra"n nor(a##y then a*es u%, )ecause o$ the arousa# center, "t "nterru%ts s#ee% "n order to a##o the( to )reath. =ut they (ay "nterru%t the"r s#ee% 1, 2, 0 t"(es %er n"&ht. Q. And are $oot)a## %#ayers %art"cu#ar#y su)'ect to th"s %ro)#e(































Q. hat "s res%"ratory neuro)"o#o&y A. e##, e##, neuro)"o#o&y "s the study o$ ho the )ra"n contro#s !ar"ous as%ects o$ %hys"o#o&y, and "n connect"on "th the res%"ratory, res%"ratory, s#ee%, c"rcad"an and neuro)"o#o&y. So s#ee%, neuro)"o#o&y, c"rcad"an, res%"ratory. res%"ratory. And the reason res%"ratory "s "n!o#!ed "s )ecause o$ o)struct"!e s#ee% a%nea, h"ch "s one o$ the (ost co((on s#ee% d"sorders there "s. Q. O*, And hat other &rants, 'ust "n the #ast cou%#e o$ years I dont ant to &o )ac* 0 years. A. ?"&ht. I understand.

)@A objection: ?elevance. *udge: objection to1 Ms. (ahan: relevance. *udge: of his grants1 Ms. (ahan: ! haven"t heard anything related to the testi#ony here yet. /e"re not challenging his e0pertise in sleep generally.































>r. (Beisler: can you tell #e the page nu#ber where the grants are1 Mr. 'os%off: !+ll even #ove on fro# there because ! %now you+ve... *udge: well, he described three grants. That"s sufficient. Mr. 'os%off: yeah.

Q. >any, (any &rants o!er the years A. -es. -es. I!e )een cont"nuous#y $unded )y the nat"ona# "nst"tutes o$ hea#th. Q. Nat"ona# hat A. Nat"ona# "nst"tutes o$ hea#th $or (ore than 0 years. yea rs. I!e a#so rece"!ed &rants $ro( the ... e ha!e an on&o"n& &rant & rant $ro( :E>A to #oo* at $"re$"&hters and to screen $"re$"&hters $or s#ee% d"sorders. e e rece"!ed a &rant $ro( the nat"ona# "nst"tute o$ 'ust"ce to ... and the center cen ter $or d"sease contro# to conduct condu ct a s#ee% d"sorder screen"n& o$ %o#"ce around the country cou ntry.. e e %u)#"shed an art"c#e "n the journal of American American Medical Association as a resu#t o$ that &rant, sho"n& that near#y one "n three %o#"ce o$$"cers screens %os"t"!e $or o)struct"!e s#ee% a%nea, and e ha!e rece"!ed a &rant ...































A. -es. -es. Ch"e$ o$ the d"!"s"on o$ s#ee% (ed"c"ne and an d "n the de%art(ent o$ (ed"c"ne at the =r"&ha( o(ens /os%"ta#. Q. And "n th"s case, do you understand that Dr. Dr. >urray as an "ntern"st A. -es. Q. O*, And that...

*udge: wasn"t he a cardiologistG (ounsel, wasn"t he a cardiologist1 Mr. 'os%off: yes. $ut only board certified in internal #edicine. *udge: oh, &%, Mr. 'os%off: he held hi#self out as a cardiologist, but he did not have the board... Ms. (ahan: objection. (ounsel is testifying. Mr. Panish: you as%ed the uestion. *udge: ! as%ed the uestion.

































*udge: did you write an article1

Q. D"d you r"te a cha%ter "n the te4t)oo*, /arr"son@s te4t)oo* $or Interna# >ed"c"ne

*udge: first of all, have you heard of that te0tboo%1 >r. (Beisler: yes.

Q. D"d you r"te the cha%ter "n that te4t)oo* on the treat(ent and d"a&nos"s and treat(ent o$ s#ee% d"sorders

































>r. >r. Kos*o$$ "t "s the standard te4t)oo* "n "nterna# (ed"c"ne. (ed "c"ne. >s. Cahan your honor... h onor... >r. >r. Kos*o$$ )as"ca##y e!ery (ed"ca# schoo#... >s. Cahan your honor, th"s "s "na%%ro%r"ate. Counse# "s test"$y"n& no and hes say"n& hat he ants the "tness to say so the 'ury can hear "t. Jud&e o!erru#ed. A## r"&ht. -ou -ou (ay as*.

Q. hat "s /arr"son@s

































Q. A%%ro4"(ate#y. A%%ro4"(ate#y. A. I )e#"e!e that as "n 12. Q. O*, No I ou#d #"*e to &o and %"c* u% a #"tt#e )"t $ro( here e #e$t o$$ yesterday. yesterday. And at that %o"nt I as*ed you a !ery, !ery, !ery, !ery #on& hy%othet"ca# h y%othet"ca# uest"on, and I ou#d #"*e to ... .. . $"rst, I ant to correct a ("sstate(ent that I (ade "n the h y%othet"ca#. And And I ... the ("sstate(ent as that ... I stated that Karen :aye :a ye ent aay "n A%r"#, ca(e )ac* "n June, and I (eant ... and I shou#d ha!e sa"d that "t as Ka" Chase at that %o"nt. +hat Karen :aye ... there as no e!"dence that Karen :aye d"d that. And I ou#d a#so #"*e to "thdra a state(ent that as "n the hy%othet"ca#, that +ra!"s ayne he#%ed ... that +ra!"s ayne needed he#%, he #%, that %art o$ test"(ony. test"(ony. And I@d 'ust #"*e the 'ury to dec"de $or "tse#$ hat that e!"dence "s hen they the y hear "t. +here as con$#"ct"n& ... there as so(e con$#"ct"n& e!"dence, and I@( "##"n& to "thdra that, +ra!"s

































Q. -es. A. /"s state(ent that >r. Jac*son had a hard t"(e %"c*"n& u% (ater"a# and not coherent Q. +hat "s not "thdran. A. +hat "s not "thdran. >ay I as* a uest"on  uest"on on the %re!"ous th"n& that you sa"d a)out Ka" Chase Q. -es. A. So "n (y ... I as try"n& to r"te don as u"c*#y as %oss")#e hat you ere say"n&. At the end o$ A%r"#, 2, that he as stron&, and "t chan&ed drast"ca##y. She thou&ht he as th"nner, h"s s*"n &ot dryer, eye dro%s, th"nner, re%eat"n& h"(se#$ a #ot, asnt the sa(e (an she *ne. Are

































Mr. Mr. Panish: Panis h: correct. Mr. 'os%off: correct. *udge: &%, So, doctor, you understand now that that"s the correction1 >r. (Beisler: yes. *udge: &%,

Q. O*, No, I ant to do to other th"n&s. I as*ed you to (a*e an assu(%t"on "n the )e&"nn"n& ) e&"nn"n& o$ the hy%othet"ca# that >"chae# Jac*son had rece"!ed %ro%o$o# cont"nuous#y at n"&ht $or the 7 7



































Mr. 'os%off: so let"s just ta%e it one at a ti#e. You"re saying there"s no date ... &%, /e will put that in without the date. Mr. Panish: is that what you want1



































*udge: was there an e#ail or not1 /e certainly need to %now that. Mr. Panish: there was. Mr. $oyle: &+Melveny is disputing what it #eans.



































Mr. $oyle: *une Cth. >oesn"t #atter. Mr. Panish: we"re withdrawing it. >oesn"t #atter. Mr. 'os%off: &%, /ithdrawn. ! have to tell hi# what not to consider.



































A. -es. -es. ?e!"e"n& docu(ents and usua##y... usua##y... Q. No A. :or e4a(%#e, (ost o$ the e(a"#s that you re$erred to yesterday, I had a#ready read.



































A. Do you ant (e to "nc#ude A%r"#, A%r"#, >ay and June Q. -es. -es. A%r"#, >ay and June.









































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































A. +han* you. Q. IV =enadry#, "ntra!enous =enadry#, "s &"!en a## the t"(e to he#% "th s#ee% A. I cant te## you the anser to that uest"on, )ut "t ou#d not sur%r"se (e. Q. It ou#d not sur%r"se you. =ut you dont or* "n a hos%"ta# on a da"#y )as"sF r"&ht A. I do. I or* ... (y e(%#oyer "s the =r"&ha( o(ens hos%"ta#. Q. Are you "n the ards A. I( not "n the ards. Q. Are you atch"n& %eo%#e r"te orders $or dru&s A. I dont %ract"ce (ed"c"ne, as e!e e! e &one o!er, and I dont %rescr")e dru&s. I do stud"es "n the "ntens"!e care un"t, as I (ent"oned ear#"er, and e do chart re!"es and "dent"$y ... #oo* $or ser"ous (ed"ca# errors, and so on. =ut I dont don t %rescr")e (ed"cat"ons or ta*e care o$ %at"ents. Q. So "s "t nes to you that =enadry# &ets %rescr")ed "ntra!enous#y a## the t"(e to he#% %eo%#e s#ee%

*ac%sons objection: for# of the uestion. Ms. (ahan: !+ll as% it in a #ore nor#al way, your honor. *udge: &%,

Q. Are you aare o$ hether "ntra!enous =enadry# "s %rescr")ed co((on#y to he#% %eo%#e "th "nso(n"a A. Let (e c#ar"$y. +here "s no dru& that "s a%%ro!ed )y the :DA $or "ntra!enous use to treat "nso(n"a. Q. ?"&ht. A. +hat "s a $u## sto%.































Q. 5h6huh. A. In a hos%"ta# sett"n&, there are (any (an y, (any d"$$erent co(%ounds that are used $or sedat"on. Q. 5h6huh. A. Not 'ust =enadry#. =ut there are (any (an y anesthet"c uses $or sedat"on "n "ntens"!e care un"ts, "nc#ud"n& %ro%o$o#. =ut "ts use "n a %ersons ho(e, ho (e, "thout a%%ro%r"ate (on"tor"n& eu"%(ent, "s &reat#y e&re&"ous "n the conduct o$ Dr. >urray. >urray. Q. -e%. -e%. e e a&ree. O*, O* , Lets ta#* a #"tt#e )"t (ore a)out your or* "n th"s case. I th"n* you sa"d today that you!e s%ent, on a!era&e, a)out ha#$ a day a ee* s"nce January or*"n& on th"s case A. +hats correct. Q. So are you a)#e to do the (ath as to ho (uch (oney you ha!e )"##ed or "## )e )"##"n& u% to no to %#a"nt"$$s $or your or* "n th"s case A. I th"n* "ts a%%ro4"(ate#y 12 hours that I s%ent. Q. 12 hours, so a #"tt#e o!er 31, A. -es. Q. O*, And you ere do"n& a #"tt#e )"t o$ (ath )e$ore, so I@## as* you to do th"s. And "$ not, I ha!e A. L"tt#e cheat sheet. I$ you ere or*"n& 8 hours a ee* on o n consu#t"n& or* ... I@( not. Q. I *no youre not. Its a hy%othet"ca#. I$ you ere a##oed to or* 8 hours a ee* on consu#t"n& or* at your rate o$ 3< an hour, youd )e (a*"n& o!er 31<, a (onthF r"&ht A. :"rst o$ a##, I (ean, I ha!ent done that ca#cu#at"on. =ut the ... .. . )ut not on#y do /ar!ard ru#es not a##o (e to do that, )ut I dont ha!e t"(e )ecause o$ the or* I@( do"n& "th (y day da y 'o). Q. I( sorry "$ "ts con$us"n&. I as as*"n& hy%othet"ca##y. hy%othet"ca##y. A. O*, Q. I$ you ere or*"n& 8 hours a ee*... A. -es.































A. I ha!ent done the (ath, )ut I@## %resu(e that you!e added that u% correct#y. Q. O*, And you sa"d a)out 12 hours you!e %ut "nto th"s case so $ar A. -es. -es. O!er the #ast s"4 (onths. Q. And ho (any o$ those ere )e$ore I too* your de%os"t"on "n th"s case and you rote th"s re%ort A. I dont re(e()er. As I reco##ect ... I *no hen I d"d the de%os"t"on, that I d"dnt ha!e those records "th (e, and I sa"d I cou#d cou #d %ro)a)#y $"nd the( "$ you "shed, and you sa"d there as no need to do that. -ou -ou anted (e to &"!e you a rou&h est"(ate, and I th"n* I est"(ated at that t"(e that "t as a cou%#e o$ do9en hours. I ha!e not &one )ac* to try to $"&ure out hat ha%%ened )e$ore A%r"# A%r"# th, and hat ha%%ened a$ter A%r"# th. Q. O*, =ut a cou%#e do9en hours a$ter A%r"# th, )a##%ar*F a)out 12 hours tota#, so $ar A. Its a)out a ha#$ a day a ee*. I dont re(e()er e4act#y h"ch ee*s I or*ed on h"ch a(ounts. Q. O*, =ut none o$ that "nc#uded re!"e"n&... A. +hat "nc#uded the ha#$ day you s%ent de%os"n& (e. Q. ?"&ht. And none o$ that "nc#uded re!"e"n& the tr"a# test"(ony o$ an y "tnesses ho ca(e here to th"s courtF correct A. +hats r"&ht.

Ms. (ahan: your honor, you want to ta%e the lunch brea%1 *udge: &%, Than% you, all. See you at :27. ;K<(= $?@)'GGGGG.

Aood afternoon. (ross8e0a#ination by defendant attorney Ms. (ahan of >r. (Beisler

Q. So I ant to 'ust ta#* a #"tt#e )"t a)out the essent"a# o%"n"ons that you!e o$$ered here at tr"a#.































A. +hats correct, e!eryone does need s#ee%. Q. S#ee% "s a &ood th"n& A. It "s a &ood th"n&. Q. And s#ee% s#ee% has d"$$erent sta&es. I th"n* you sa"d there ere $our, cu#("nat"n& cu#("nat"n& "n ?E> s#ee% A. +here are actua##y sta&es 1, 2, 0 and 8 %#us re( s#ee%. So there are to d"$$erent states o$ consc"ousness, non6re( s#ee%, s#ee% ... ?E> s#ee%, and then a*e$u#ness "s the th"rd.

Ms. (ahan: &%. Mr. Mr. Panish: you %now, %now, ! just can"t hear hi# great. ! don"t %now if anyone else has that proble#. The witness: can we try this again1 Ms. (ahan: tal%8show style1 &%ay.

Q. And %eo%#e need s#ee% to #"!e A. +hey need s#ee% to #"!e, yes. Q. And stay hea#thy A. And stay hea#thy. hea#thy. Q. And "$ you dont s#ee%, )ad th"n&s ha%%en to your hea#th A. +hats correct. Q. O*. -our )ody and your ("nd A. +hats correct. Q. O*. And today you ta#*ed a)out you th"n* >r. >r. Jac*son %ro)a)#y had "nso(n"a A. +hats correct. Q. -oure -oure not sure hat ty%es A. hat ty%e or ty%es, correct. Q. ?"&ht. And that "nso(n"a cou#d )e %r"(ary %r"(ary or secondary A. Or )oth.































st"## (ay not )e as (uch as you need. Or "n so(e cases, %eo%#e ha!e th"s se!en or e"&ht hours o$ s#ee%, )ut they dont $"nd that "ts rest$u# s#ee%, they $ee# #"*e they ere toss"n& and turn"n& throu&hout the n"&ht. Q. O*. So #ots o$ d"$$erent ty%es ty%es o$ "nso(n"a that can )e caused )y #ots o$ d"$$erent ty%es o$ th"n&s, correct A. Accurate. Q. O*. And "th res%ect to >r. Jac*son, you th"n* "t as orse on tour or hen %re%ar"n& $or tour )ecause o$ an4"ety that he had a)out %er$or("n& and adrena#"ne $ro( %er$or("n&F "s that $a"r A. -es, -es, hat "s so(et"(es ca##ed ad'ust(ent s#ee% d"sorder. =ut "t "s that ... It "s that ty%e o$ "nso(n"a thats assoc"ated "th a s%ec"$"c stressor or stressors. Q. ?"&ht. L"*e an4"ety or the e4c"te(ent o$ %er$or("n& A. e##, e##, 'ust the ... +he ... -ou -ou *no, the adrena#"ne and so on. Its not 'ust an4"ety, an4"ety, )ut "t can )e %er$or(ance o$ anyone %er$or("n&. So, $or e4a(%#e, "$ th"s court sess"on ere )e"n& he#d at ("dn"&ht, and e!eryone "s *eyed u% $or the as*"n& the uest"ons u est"ons or anser"n& the uest"ons, "t %ro)a)#y ou#d )e d"$$"cu#t to $a## as#ee% #"*e r"&ht r"&ht a$ter the sess"on ended. Q. O*. So assu("n& that youre r"&ht a)out hat as &o"n& on "th >r. >r. Jac*son and h"s s#ee% on tour ... O* >r. Jac*son ou#d ha!e *non that he had that %ro)#e(, r"&ht A. e##, e##, "$ you ha!e s#ee% state ("s%erce%t"on, he ("&ht )e ... /e ou#dnt necessar"#y ha!e *non that he had that %ro)#e(, that he as ("s%erce"!"n& the a(ount o$ s#ee% that he as ... I (ean that essent"a##y "s a ("s%erce%t"on on the %art o$ the %at"ent. Q. =ut you )e#"e!e that >"chae# Jac*son ... In th"n&s that you!e re!"eed and the o%"n"ons you!e $or(ed, you )e#"e!e that >"chae# Jac*son *ne he had a s#ee%"n& %ro)#e( that &ot orse hen he ent on tour A. -es. Q. O*. And you dont ha!e any reason to )e#"e!e that >r. Jac*son d"dnt *no that he had that %ro)#e(, r"&ht A. No. Q. O*. =ut he ... :ro( your re!"e re!"e o$ the record, youd a&ree, ou#dnt you, that >r. >r. Jac*son d"dnt ant he#% $ro( doctors to address h"s s#ee%"n& %ro)#e(s "n the the s%r"n& o$ 2, r"&ht I( sorry. sorry. D"d you understand the uest"on A. I@( ... I dont *no ho to "nter%ret the uest"on, )ecause he tr"ed ... /e tr"ed to &et he#% $ro(

































A. Actua##y, Actua##y, he ... :ro( dr d r. Lee, he tr"ed a non6%ro%o$o# thera%yF and, "n $act, he had %rescr"%t"ons $ro( a nu()er o$ doctors $or !ar"ous (ed"cat"ons $or s#ee% (ed"cat"ons, (ed "cat"ons, so the e!"dence "n the record su&&ests that he ent to (any (an y d"$$erent doctors try"n& to &et so(eth"n& to he#% h"( s#ee%. Q. O*. e## co(e )ac* to that a #"tt#e )"t ... A #"tt#e #"tt#e )"t #ater. #ater. I ant to ta#* a&a"n a)out your o%"n"ons that you need s#ee% and "ts "ts )ad "$ you dont &et s#ee%. s#ee%. O*ay A. -eah. Q. -oud -oud a&ree, ou#dnt you, that chron"c s#ee% #oss (ay ha!e #on& ter( e$$ects on a %ersons hea#th, correct A. -es. Q. And you th"n* >r. >r. Jac*son %ro)a)#y had so(e so (e *"nd o$ chron"c "nso(n"a A. /e had a chron"c s#ee% d"sorder, so(e ty%e o$ "nso(n"a that ... +hat as ... +hat as chron"c, as "s ty%"ca# o$ "nso(n"a, and "s o$ten ... E!en chron"c "nso(n"a "s "nter("ttent "n nature, and ... And "n h"s case, $ro( the record, "t ou#d a%%ear that ... +hat hen he as stressed a)out so(eth"n& ... In %art"cu#ar, tours ... +hat h"s "nso(n"a ou#d &et orse. I th"n* "t %ro)a)#y a#so &ot orse, $or e4a(%#e ... +heres e!"dence "n the record that "t d"d dur"n& the cr"("na# tr"a# that he had to &o throu&h. Q. +he (o#estat"on tr"a# A. -es. -es. It ou#dnt )e #"("ted to tours, )ut "t ou#d )e ... A tour ou#d )e an e4a(%#e o$ so(eth"n& that ou#d )e %art"cu#ar#y stress$u# Q. O*. I ("sunderstood hat you ere say"n& )e$ore ear#"er, ear#"er, then. -oure not say"n& that "t as tours and tours a#one that *"c*ed u% u % >r. Jac*sons "nso(n"a to cr"t"ca# #e!e#s, "t as stressors, stressors, "nc#ud"n& tours, )ut a#so "nc#ud"n& the cr"("na# char&es a&a"nst h"( A. hen that ... -es. Q. A## r"&ht.































A. -es. Q. And you th"n* that >r. >r. Jac*son su$$ered $ro( chron"c s#ee% #oss A. -es, I do. Q. And $ro( re!"e"n& the record, you th"n* that >r. Jac*son %ro)a)#y had so(e $or( o$ "nso(n"a $or decades, correct A. -es. Q. And the cu(u#at"!e e$$ects o$ s#ee% #oss and s#ee% d"sorders ha!e a "de ran&e o$ conseuences A. +hats correct. Q. eo%#e )eco(e (ore d"stract")#e A. -es. Q. +hey &ot )urned out (ore eas"#y A. -es. Q. +he s#ee% #oss and c"rcad"an rhyth( d"stract"on that >r. Jac*son had ou#d ha!e an ad!erse "(%act on h"s "((une syste( A. It cou#d, yes. Q. h"ch ou#d %ut h"( at r"s* o$ )eco("n& "## (ore than the a!era&e %erson that s#e%t e## A. +here "s e!"dence that %eo%#e "th "nso(n"a Or s#ee% de$"c"ency ha!e an "ncreased r"s* o$ )eco("n& "##. Q. Less a)#e to $"&ht o$$ "##ness once s"c* A. otent"a##y. Q. Increased r"s* o$ "n$ect"on































Q. Chron"c s#ee% #oss "ncreases the r"s* o$ h"&h )#ood %ressure A. -es. Q. Greater ... Greater r"s* o$ "n$#a((at"on o$ t"ssues A. -es, -es, de$"n"te# d e$"n"te#y y. Q. ro)#e(s "th hor(one re&u#at"on A. -es. Q. Greater r"s* o$ se!era# d"seases, "nc#ud"n& d"a)etes and de %ress"on A. -es. Q. Cancer A. In %art"cu#ar, %art"cu#ar, n"&ht sh"$t or* "s assoc"ated "th an "ncreased r"s* o$ cancer. cancer. In $act, the or#d hea#th or&an"9at"on has c#ass"$"ed n"&ht sh"$t or* as a %ro)a)#e carc"no&en, s"("#ar to ... -ou -ou *no, on the #"st o$ %ro)a)#e carc"no&ens, 'ust the sa(e ay as as)estos and other th"n&s are. Q. In $act, there are stud"es that sho that >r. >r. Jac*sons chron"c s#ee% %ro)#e(s ou#d %ut h"( h "( at r"s* o$ "ncreased (orta#"ty, (orta#"ty, r"&ht A. +here are such stud"es. Q. And that (eans dy"n& ... Increased (orta#"ty (eans r"s* o$ dy"n& ear#"er than you ou#d e4%ect a hea#thy %erson to d"e A. +hats correct. Q. It (eans that your #"$e e4%ectancy ou#d )e decreased A. +hats correct. Q. And decades o$ s#ee% #oss and c"rcad"an d"sru%t"on cou#d ha!e %otent"a##y *noc*ed years o$$ o$ >r. Jac*sons #"$e, correct































Q. And you ta#*ed a #"tt#e #"tt#e )"t yesterday a)out hat that ou#d enta"#. I th"n* you used Sha as an e4a(%#e $or %art o$ that. A. -es. -es. In the case o$ >r. O@Nea#, that d"a&nost"c or*u% "s d"$$erent than that reco((ended $or "nso(n"a, so... Q. ?"&ht. =ecause he has a%nea A. ?"&ht. So $or s#ee% a%nea, you need an o!ern"&ht s#ee% record"n& or ... E"ther "n a #a)oratory or ho(e s#ee% test "s "s sort o$ the the #atest techno#o&y thats )e"n& used. used. =ut your s#ee% ou#d )e (on"tored dur"n& the n"&ht to $"nd out "$ youre )reath"n& hen youre s#ee%"n&, hereas h ereas an o!ern"&ht test o$ that sort "s not necessar"#y "nd"cated $or "nso(n"a. Q. O*. So $or "nso(n"a, "$ you ... I$ >r. >r. Jac*son had co(e to you and sa"d, he#% (e "th (y s#ee% %ro)#e(, and you had &otten a #"censed %hys"c"an to %artner u% "th you to d"a&nose and treat h"(, you ou#d ha!e ta*en a ... e##, e##, you ou#d ha!e used a ho#e tea( o$ s#ee% s%ec"a#"sts to d"a&nose >r. Jac*son, r"&ht A. -es, -es, I ... I$ I ere as*ed to he#% the (ost success$u# %er$or(er ho e!er #"!ed, I certa"n#y c erta"n#y ou#d ha!e asse()#ed a tea( to try to he#% h"( "th )e"n& a)#e to cont"nue h"s success. Q. And that ou#d "nc#ude a care$u# %hys"ca# h"story A. -es. -es. It ou#d "nc#ude a care$u# (ed"ca# h"story, h"story, %hys"ca# e4a("nat"on )y a #"censed %hys"c"an, and "n ta*"n& a deta"#ed h"story ... O$ course, "t ou#d )e %art"cu#ar#y "(%ortant to un derstand the nature o$ the s#ee% co(%#a"nt, hat ere the %ro)#e(s that he as e4%er"enc"n&, ho d"d "t ... /o d"d those %ro)#e(s a$$ect h"s a)"#"ty to %er$or(. =ecause (ost o$ the t"(e, un#ess there "s a conseuence o$ dayt"(e ... Dayt"(e %er$or(ance o$ the "nso(n"a, "ts not "nd"cated $or treat(ent. So... Q. And #et (e (e 'ust as* "t "n #"tt#e )"tes. I dont ant to "nterru%t you, )ut I ant to (a*e sure I &et a## the %arts that ou#d )e "n!o#!ed "n a s#ee% d"a&nos"s "$ you and your tea( ere do"n& "t. A. +hats $"ne.































A. -es, so(et"(es. Q. :or e4a(%#e... A. So(et"(es, $or e4a(%#e, "n the case o$ >r. O@Nea#, e ("&ht s"t "th h"( and as* h"( the uest"ons rather than e4%ect"n& h"( to $"## out the $or( )ecause the #"*e#"hood o$ &ett"n& the $or( )ac* "s not that h"&h. Q. ?"&ht. hen the %erson "s $"##"n& out the $or( the(se#!es, or youre he#%"n& the( $"## out the $or(, youre count"n& on the( to te## you the truth... A. -es. Q. In the"r ansers, r"&ht A. -es. Q. So "$ so(eone dr"n*s 2 cu%s o$ co$$ee a day, and they te## you they on#y ha!e h a!e one, thats &o"n& to (a*e "t hard to &"!e "t a &ood d"a&nos"s, r"&ht A. +hats $or sure. Q. O*. And %ro%er s#ee% d"a&nos"s $or >r. >r. Jac*son you th"n* ou#d a#so ha!e reu"red ad("n"ster"n& a !ar"ety o$ s#ee% tests such as an a()u#atory a ()u#atory record"n& to (on"tor s#ee%"n& and a*"n& A. -es. -es. In so(eone such as >r. >r. Jac*son, "$ ere s%ea*"n& s%ec"$"ca##y a)out h"(, s"nce there as a h"story o$ add"ct"on, I ou#d certa"n#y ha!e anted an add"ct"on s%ec"a#"st "n!o#!ed on the tea(. Q. O*. =ecause, as you test"$"ed test"$"ed yesterday, yesterday, add"ct"!e dru&s can a$$ect s#ee% A. -es, -es, and so that ou#d )e cr"t"ca#. And anyt"(e there "s a h"story o$ add"ct"on, o$ course, the ... +here "s a reco&n"t"on that ... +hat so(eone "s &o"n& to ha!e to or* "th a %at"ent to )u"#d trust and to &et the co(%#ete story, )ecause hen so(e)ody co(es "nto the ... Into the o$$"ce, and you as* so(eone ho (uch they dr"n*, "ts usua##y underest"(ated, e!en $ro( so(eone ho "s

































Q. O*. +hat (eans "t as %ers"st"n& %ers"st"n& $or a #on& t"(e, t"(e, hard to so#!e A. /ard to so#!e, %art"cu#ar#y hen he as on tour. Q. O*. A. Or %re%ar"n& $or a tour. Q. And you ou#d a#so ant to understand >r. Jac*sons ha)"ts and en!"ron(ent A. -es. Q. Such as h"s use o$ ca$$e"ne A. -es. Q. hat (ed"cat"ons he as ta*"n& A. A)so#ute#y. Q. /"s s#ee%"n& en!"ron(ent and the setu% o$ h"s )edroo( A. -es. Q. +he a(ount o$ #"&ht and no"se >r. Jac*son encountered at n"&ht A. -es. Q. A %ro%er d"a&nos"s o$ Jac*son ("&ht a#so ha!e reu"red understand"n& h"s e(ot"ona# state































Q. So to the e4tent that you cou#d &"!e yes or no to th"n&s that can )e ansered yes or no, e!en "$ there ou#d )e add"t"ona# deta"# that ou#d )e "nterest"n&, I ou#d a%%rec"ate "t, )ecause that "## he#% (e &et you out o$ here. A. A&reed. Q. So e ere ta#*"n& a)out the th"n&s that you ou#d ant to ... +hat ou#d )e "nc#uded "n a %sycho#o&"ca# e!a#uat"on as %art o$ a s#ee% d"a&nos"s. e ere 'ust ta#*"n& a)out an4"ety as )e"n& one o$ those, or "$ theres a h"story o$ ch"#dhood trau(a, thats so(eth"n& that ou#d )e re#e!ant A. -es. Q. Other %otent"a# %sycho#o&"ca# %ro)#e(s #"*e de%ress"on A. -es. Q. So $a"r to say that there are (any tests and $actors that a %ro%er d"a&nos"s d "a&nos"s ou#d e!a#uate "n deter("n"n& the root causes $or and %ro%er treat(ent $or >r. >r. Jac*sons s#ee% "ssues A. -es. Q. And >r. >r. Jac*son ou#d ha!e had to )e a A. -es. Q. +e## the truth

"##"n& %art"c"%ant %art"c"%ant "n that %rocess, r"&ht































A. +hat ou#dnt )e the $"rst ste%. +he $"rst ste%, I ou#d 'ust do th"s (on"tor"n&, (on"tor"n&, )ecause the th"n& "s that a## those "res actua##y, $or so(e)ody ho has "nso(n"a, o$ten (a*es "t (ore d"$$"cu#t $or the( to s#ee%, and so thats the ... +hats the reason h y the A(er"can Acade(y o$ S#ee% >ed"c"ne doesnt necessar"#y reco((end reco((end that. I$ ... I$ there ere ... I$ one anted to ru#e ru#e out other s#ee% d"sorders, such as rest#ess #e& syndro(e or so(eth"n& e#se that ca(e u% "n %hys"ca# e4a(, you ("&ht dec"de to do that. Q. So that ("&ht )e %art o$ "t A. It cou#d )e %art o$ "t, )ut "t ou#dnt )e"n& the $"rst th"n& that e ou#d ou #d do. Q. A## A## r"&ht. And he ("&ht ha!e had to or* "th a %sycho#o&"st and ta#* a)out so(e o$ these e(ot"ona# "ssues A. I (ean, the *ey *e y there ou#d )e to ... +o or* "th a %sycho#o&"st a)out the "ssues "n co&n"t"!e )eha!"ora# thera%y, thera%y, h"ch "s hat I as ta#*"n& a)out )e$ore... Q. I@( sorry. sorry. Can you anser that yesHno and then I@( &o"n& to $o##o u% "th that "ssue A. O*. So hat ... -ou -ou ou#d not necessar"#y need to &o "nto the ho#e ch"#dhood. Q. I@( sorry sorry.. I asnt say"n& say"n& ch"#dhood. A. sychoana#ys"s. Q. It cou#d )e an4"ety, an4"ety, or you sa"d so(e %eo%#e dont ant to &"!e u% the"r +Vs. /e ("&ht ha!e































A. -es. Q. D"d you see any an y "nd"cat"ons "n the record that >r. Jac*son restr"cted... A. >ay I c#ar"$y that anser /e ou#d &o to (u#t"%#e doctors. /e rece"!ed d"$$erent (ed"cat"ons. I dont *no ... >any t"(es there there ere sur&"ca# sur&"ca# %rocedures "n!o#!ed. I dont *no that he as &o"n& to the doctors $or the (ed"cat"ons Q. O*. I understand the d"st"nct"on. And d"d you see "nd"cat"ons "n the record that >r. >r. Jac*son restr"cted the %eo%#e ho cou#d &o u%sta"rs at h"s house A. -es. -es. Dr. Lee and Dr. >urray, >urray, as $ar as I *no, ere the on#y ones ho cou#d &o u% there. Q. And he ou#dnt e!en #et house*ee%ers u%sta"rs to c#ean h"s (essy roo(, r"&ht A. I dont *no that. Q. -ou -ou d"dnt see that "n the records A. I (ay ha!e. I *ne "t as restr"cted, restr"cted, I dont re(e()er re(e()er e4act#y hether house*ee%ers cou#d &o there. Q. So e ere ta#*"n& yesterday a)out a (essy roo( ... e erent ta#*"n& a)out >r. >r. Jac*son s%ec"$"ca##y at that %o"nt, e ere ta#*"n& a)out a (essy roo( or s#o!en#y )eha!"or )e"n& so(et"(es "nd"cat"!e o$ s#ee% de%r"!at"on, r"&ht A. -es, -es, e ere ta#*"n& a)out the rats )eco(e d"she!e#ed.































Q. -oud -oud a#so a&ree that "ts co((on $or %eo%#e % eo%#e to re$use to s%end t"(e, the t"(e reu"red to under&o a s#ee% e!a#uat"on, correct A. -es. Q. And you!e encountered %at"ents ho!e re$used treat(ent, correct A. -es. Q. And "$ so(e)ody re$uses to )e e!a#uated, you cant $orce the( to under&o a s#ee% e!a#uat"on, r"&ht A. No, you cannot. Q. And you cant $orce treat(ent on an un"##"n& %at"ent A. Not $or any %at"ent. Q. +hat ou#d )e uneth"ca# A. +hat ou#d. Q. And you sa"d youre $a("#"ar "th the test"(ony o$ Cher"#yn Lee, ho "s a nurse A. -es, -es, I a(. Q. e!e e!e ta#*ed a)out that a )"t today, r"&ht A. -es.

































A. -es, -es, )ut I ... I st"## th"n* she as ta#*"n& a)out a s#ee% study that "s used $or e!a#uat"n& s#ee% a%nea. =ecause s#ee% test"n& as no re%#aced "n #a)oratory test"n& "n ... As the $"rst ste% toard e!a#uat"on o$ s#ee% a%nea. Q. ?"&ht. A. =ut that ho(e s#ee% ... hether the s#ee% study "s done at ho(e or "n the #a), that study "s $or e!a#uat"on o$ o)struct"!e s#ee% a%nea, "t "s not a test that "s used as the $"rst #"ne $or "nso(n"a Q. O*. =ut youd a&ree she reco&n"9ed that he had a s#ee% %ro)#e( %ro)#e( A. -es. Q. And she anted to re$er h"( to a s%ec"a#"st to &et treat(ent ...  ro%er d"a&nost"c treat(ent and he#% $or that

































A. -es, -es, and thats the %ro)#e( $aced )y (ost %eo%#e ho treat "nso(n"a. Q. eo%#e "th chron"c "nso(n"a ha!e he#%#ess att"tude A. >any o$ the( $ee# that they ha!e tr"ed e!eryth"n& and noth"n& or*s, and so they ... I dont *no that I ou#d ca## "t he#%#ess, )ut theyre %ess"("st"c a)out the a)"#"ty to treat the "nso(n"a. Q. =ut "ts your )e#"e$ that hen >s. Lee $a"#ed to con!"nce >r. Jac*son to do a s#ee% study and an d &et he#% $ro( a s%ec"a#"st, "$ he had &one to see you, you ou#d ha!e )een a)#e to con!"nce h"( to do a %ro%er d"a&nost"c e!a#uat"on e!a #uat"on A. I@( not 'ust say"n& that )ecause I th"n* that I cou#d ha!e done that and no one e#se cou#d. In $act, I th"n* "$ he had &one ... I$ he had en&a&ed a )oard cert"$"ed s#ee% s%ec"a#"st ... And there are a)out , )oard cert"$"ed s#ee% s%ec"a#"sts "n the un"ted un "ted states ... +hat such a s#ee% s%ec"a#"st shou#d ha!e had the too#s and the tra"n"n& to ... +o "(%#e(ent a co(%rehens"!e %ro&ra( $or h"(

































A. -es, I d"d

Ms. (ahan: pa#, let put up page 2 on the screen The witness: in fact, >r. MetBger pointed out to Mr. *ac%son... The court: there"s no uestion. /ait until she as%s you the ne0t uestion. Ms. (ahan: it"s page 2. May ! approach, approach, your honor1 The court: yes, you #ay. Ms. (ahan: &% to show1 Mr. Mr. Panish: yes.

































Q. And "ts your understand"n& $ro( Dr. >et9&ers test"(ony that >r. Jac*son re$used any he#% "th h"s s#ee% "ssues, re$used a s#ee% s%ec"a#"st at th"s t"(e hen Dr. >et9&er reco((ended "t And I th"n* he test"$"ed a)out th"s at h"s de%os"t"on. I( not sure that the records ha!e a## the deta"# there. A. -es. -es. I( try"n& to re(e()er e4act#y hat he sa"d, hether he ... I dont re(e()er >r. >r. Jac*son at that t"(e re$us"n& ... Certa"n#y d"d not $o##o u% on the reco((endat"on, )ut I dont re(e()er ... I cant reco##ect as e s"t here today hether he sa"d, I refuse to do that . Q. O*. A. I dont *no that that as h"s sty#e. Q. And youd a&ree, ou#dnt you, that th"s re$#ects >r. Jac*son *ne he tended to &et stressed out hen he as on tour

































A. +he ... +he A(er"can =oard o$ S#ee% >ed"c"ne as esta)#"shed "n, I th"n*, the 1;s, and $ro( the ... +hrou&h the A(er"can S#ee% D"sorders Assoc"at"on. And that )oard as esta)#"shed once the noso#o&y o$ a## the d"$$erent s#ee% d"sorders ere esta)#"shed and they ere a## na(ed. +hen the %"oneers "n the $"e#d reco&n"9ed that there as a need to tra"n s%ec"a#"sts "n the area to (a*e sure that %eo%#e cou#dnt 'ust han& h an& u% a sh"n&#e and say they ere s%ec"a#"sts, so they de!e#o%ed a )oard e4a(. In $act, I as one o$ the %eo%#e ho too* that e4a( "n "n "ts $"rst years, and as cert"$"ed as an accred"ted cr"t"ca# c r"t"ca# %o#yso(no&ra%her, ha!"n& %assed the test. And so that cont"nued $or, #ets say, say, 0 years or soF and then $"na##y, $"na##y, a$ter a #ot o$ ... A$ter an "ntense %er"od o$ try"n& to con!"nce the A(er"can >ed"ca# Assoc"at"on and re#ated )od"es that the s#ee% $"e#d shou#d )e reco&n"9ed (ore &enera##y &enera ##y )y A(er"can (ed"c"ne, then ... I th"n* "t as ... I th"n* "t as around 2< that the A(er"can =oard o$ >ed"ca# S%ec"a#t"es dec"ded to reco&n"9e s#ee% (ed"c"ne the sa(e ay that they the y do "nterna# (ed"c"ne and other s%ec"a#t"es "n (ed"c"ne, and a )oard as created "th"n the A(er"can =oard o$ >ed"ca# S%ec"a#t"es, h"ch then re%#aced the



































tre(endous a(ount o$ %ress a)out "t. =ut, o$ course, "ts so(eth"n& I or* on a## the t"(e, so "ts "ts hard $or (e to &et a %ers%ect"!e as to hether or not ... /o &enera##y aare %eo%#e are. are. =ut "t ... Its certa"n#y !ery !er y "de#y. "de#y. Q. Its certa"n#y !ery... !ery...



































Q. So youd a&ree that tha t s#ee% d"sorders and s#ee% de%r"!at"on are (a'or $or %u)#"c hea#th "n our soc"ety, soc"ety, "n &enera#, r"&ht A. E4act#y, "n 27, the "nst"tute o$ (ed"c"ne "ssued a re%ort o$ that !ery t"t#e, slee derivation and slee disorders in the u%lic health. >ay I c#ar"$y the anser that I &a!e )e$ore, and hy I



































A. +hats correct. Q. And so you ou#dnt e4%ect the a!era&e #ay%erson, #a y%erson, hos not a doctor and certa"n#y not a s#ee% s%ec"a#"st, to *no ho to a%%ro%r"ate#y d"a&nose a s#ee%"n& %ro)#e(, r"&ht A. -ou -ou dont e4%ect the a!era&e #ay%erson to %ro%er#y d"a&nose any an y (ed"ca# cond"t"on.



































e4%ect a concert %ro(oter to reco&n"9e reco& n"9e s#ee% d"sorders or understand hat "s reu"red to %ro%er#y % ro%er#y d"a&nose the( A. I ou#d not e4%ect a concert %ro(oter to reco&n"9e a s#ee% d"sorder, %art"cu#ar#y "$ they ha!ent any "n$or(at"on a)out "t.



































Mr. Mr. Panish: that was her co##ent. The court: are you as%ing hi# whether he"s offering it1 Ms. (ahan: confir#ing that that"s not an opinion that he"s offering because ! don"t thin% he offered it on direct.









































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































The court: three #ore pages1 Ms. (ahan: there"s li%e four uestions on a page. !"# close. The court: how #uch ti#e is your redirect, redirect, ! want to #a%e sure... Mr. Mr. 'os%off: 47... Mr. Mr. Panish: 47 #inutes, he said. The court: !+# going to give you five #inutes. Pic% your best uestions. Ms. (ahan: i+ll do #y best. You You testified that Mr. Mr. *ac%son"s sleep proble# you believe beca#e disabling during tours. The witness: yes.

Q. hat do you (ean )y d"sa)#"n& A. e##, e##, >r. Jac*son, $or e4a(%#e, re%orted to Nurse Lee that he ... /e ou#dnt )e a)#e to %er$or( adeuate#y on n"&hts that he hadnt s#e%t. So, $or e4a(%#e, on the n"&ht she tr"ed so(e ... So(e her)a# or ... I cant re(e()er e4act#y hat thera%"es, %ro)"ot"c thera%"es or so(eth"n& that he o*e u% "n the (orn"n& and sa"d that he hadnt s#e%t and no he ou#dnt )e a)#e to %er$or( adeuate#y at the rehearsa#. Q. +hat as rehearsa#, not tour, r"&ht A. Correct. Q. And do you *no h"stor"ca##y hether >r. Jac*son cance##ed tours A. I *no the Dangerous +our as cance##ed. Q. =ecause he sa"d he had a %a"n*"##er add"ct"on, r"&ht A. +hats hat he sa"d, yes. Q. Any other tours A. I dont *no h"ch tours he (ay ha!e cance##ed. Q. O* and are you aare o$ any other tours on h"ch he cance##ed shos A. I do *no that there ere shos cance##ed. I re(e()er read"n& that "n the record. Q. On ... On the Dangerous tourF I@( ta#*"n& a)out other tours. A. I th"n* there ere ere shos cance##ed on other tours. I re(e()er one tour here he &ot ... here he &ot s"c* and he had to &et a doctors note a)out h"s throat )ecause ... =ecause the ...































A. No. Q. /a!ent seen any $oota&e or &one to any o$ those concerts A. I@!e ne!er &one to a >"chae# Jac*son concert. Q. And you dont *no o$ any concrete "n$or(at"on a)out ho >r. Jac*sons s#ee% %ro)#e(s a$$ected h"( on %re!"ous tours !ersus hen he as not on tour, "$ at a##, r"&ht A. No. Q. O*. One !ery #ast $e uest"ons. -ou understand, dont you, doctor, that the coroner ru#ed that the cause o$ >r. Jac*sons death as acute %ro%o$o# "nto4"cat"on "th )en9od"a9 e%"ne e$$ect, ?"&ht A. -es. Q. And do you understand hat acute roofol into,ication (eans A. I )e#"e!e so. Q. It doesnt (ean ... It (eans that "t as one #ar&e o!erdose o$ %ro%o$o#, r"&ht A. -es. Q. It doesnt (ean that >r. Jac*son as s#o#y %o"soned )y n"&ht#y %ro%o$o# o!er a #on& %er"od o$ t"(e, r"&ht A. +hats not hat the coroner ru#"n& as the cause o$ death (eans, thats correct. Q. And do you d"sa&ree "th the coroners re%ort A. No, the coroner d"d not co((ent on hether or not as ha%%en"n& the %re!"ous ee*s. Q. ?"&ht, so the one th"n& that ... +he one and on#y th"n& that caused >r. Jac*sons death as acute %ro%o$o# "nto4"cat"on "th )en9od"a9e%"ne e$$ect, r"&ht A. +hats correct. Q. /e d"dnt d"e )ecause he as s#ee% de%r"!ed A. +hats correct. Q. /e d"dnt d"e $ro( the e$$ects o$ s#ee% de%r"!at"on A. +hats correct. Q. /e su$$ered a card"ac and res%"ratory arrest, r"&ht A. +hats correct.































Q. And that June 2
Ms. (ahan: nothing further at this ti#e, your honor. honor. The court: !+# sorry. sorry. >id the witness finish answering the uestion1 The witness: ! don"t %now that that there were ... !f this were a national transportation safety board investigation, and they investigated the cause of death, they #ay have had contributing factors. ! don"t thin% the coroner tried to evaluate that was the cause of death at the ... )t the ti#e. Ms. (ahan: (ahan: so that"s that"s what... what... The witness: that"s what we what call the i##ediate cause of death.

Q. And you dont *no hether the coroner $ound hether there ere other under#y"n& cond"t"ons that ere... A. +he coroner ty%"ca##y "s "s as*ed to $"nd out hat as the "((ed"ate cause o$ death. +hey dont #oo* at the contr")ut"n& $actors that (ay ha!e #ed to that c"rcu(stance ha%%en"n&. Q. O*. =ut the cause o$ death as acute %ro%o$o# "nto4"cat"on A. +he "((ed"ate cause o$ death as, I a&ree "th you, acute %ro%o$o# "nto4"cat"on. Ms. (ahan: &% than% you, >r. >r. (Beisler. (Beisler. The court: redirect1

?edirect e0a#ination by Mr. 'os%off:

Q. :o##o"n& u% on the #ast uest"on, I th"n*, that counse# $or AEG as*ed, "$ ... I$ ... A)out the ... +hey as*ed you a)out the contract here Dr. >urray as h"red. A. -es.































Q. And she as*ed ... Counse# as*ed a)out ... A)out the ad("n"strat"on o$ %ro%o$o#, and hat you ou#d e4%ect. D"d you see "n the records that au# Gon&aare says he d"dnt as* anyth"n& a)out the doctor /e d"dnt *no anyth"n& a)out h"( A. -es. Q. And ou#d a doctor ho you dont *no *n o ... I$ you h"re a doctor d octor ho you dont *no anyth"n& a)out, cou#d any)ody *no hat to e4%ect a)out anyth"n& A. I &uess not. Q. -ou -ou ta#*ed a)out ... >s. Cahan Cah an ta#*ed a)out s#ee% de%r"!at"on and hy "t "s you thou&ht th"s ho#e &rou% o$ d"$$erent sy(%to(s ... She as*ed you, you , $or e4a(%#e, "$ d"99"ness can )e a sy(%to( o$ a d"$$erent ... A nu()er o$ d"$$erent th"n&s, "$ ch"##s can )e a sy(%to( o$ ... And you ... -ou -ou stated, o$ course, that they cou#d )e sy(%to(s o$ any nu()er o$ th"n&sF "s that r"&ht A. +hats correct. Q. hy "s "t, then, that youre st"## so stron&#y that "n th"s case that "t as the re%eated ad("n"strat"on o$ %ro%o$o# caus"n& co(%#ete s#ee% de%r"!at"on that caused >"chae# Jac*son@s deter"orat"on A. It "s the conste##at"on o$ sy(%to(s, not any "nd"!"dua# "nd"!"dua# sy(%to(s. It "s the conste##at"on o$ those sy(%to(sF and the (ost %ars"(on"ous e4%#anat"on that *n"ts a## o$ those th"n&s toðer "th the a%%ro%r"ate t"(e %er"od o$ th"s a%%ro4"(ate#y s"46 to e"&ht6ee* %e r"od hen he as )e"n& ad("n"stered %ro%o$o# on a n"&ht#y )as"s "s the %ro$ound s#ee% de$"c"ency assoc"ated "th chron"c use o$ %ro%o$o#. Q. Is there anyth"n& e#se you *no *n o "n the $"e#d o$ (ed"c"ne that ou#d ou #d account $or a## o$ these sy(%to(s that ere o)ser!a)#e )y a## o$ these %eo%#e %e o%#e A. I th"n* that th"s ... In th"s s"tuat"on, &"!en the $acts and c"rcu(stances o$ th"s case, theres no e!"dence that any other $actor cou#d co u#d )e res%ons")#e $or the deter"orat"on "n th"s %art"cu#ar t"(e %er"od. Q. And you!e ta#*ed a)out the "ssues %erta"n"n& %erta"n"n& to the treata)"#"ty o$ >r. >r. Jac*son. A&a"n, "$ AEG L"!e had h"red a $"t and co(%etent doctor, ou#d he ... I@( sorry. sorry. I## "thdra that uest"on. -ou -ou sa"d that there ere to "ssues "th re&ard to h"s treata)"#"ty. treata)"#"ty. +he $"rst had to do "th hether he ou#d )e a)#e a )#e to &et throu&h the tour, and the second "s the #on&6ter( "ssue o$ cur"n& h"s s#ee% %ro)#e(. A. +hats correct. Q. :ocus $"rst on &ett"n& throu&h the tour. I$ AEG L"!e had $"red ... /ad h"red a $"t and co(%etent































)eg objection: calls for speculation. The court: overruled.

Q. hy, hy, hat cou#d )e done on the short6ter( )as"s to &et h"( "n hat #eads to you that conc#us"on A. I$ he had a $"t and co(%etent doctor, &"!en that the s#ee% %ro)#e( that h e had as ... as, $ro( h"s %o"nt o$ !"e, d"sa)#"n&, and the %r"(ary %ro)#e( that he as concerned a)out $or &o"n& throu&h th"s tour, a $"t and co(%etent doctor ou#d ha!e seen to "t that that %ro)#e( as care$u##y e!a#uated and that an a%%ro%r"ate re&"(en o$ treat(ent as %ro!"ded to h"(. Q. hat as h"s cond"t"on... A. Dont $or&et ... I ant to add one th"n&. +h"s doctor had access to the roo( that he as s#ee%"n& "n, th"s doctor *ne a)out a## o$ the en!"ron(enta# "ssues that ere "n that roo(, and a nd ... And any $"t and co(%etent doctor see"n& those cond"t"ons, see"n& the sy(%to(s that >r. Jac*son as d"s%#ay"n&, ou#d ha!e ... I$ that %art"cu#ar doctor d"d not ha!e the e4%ert"se to address that "ssue, ou#d ha!e sou&ht consu#tat"on "th a s%ec"a#"st. +hat "s ty%"ca##y hat you e4%ect o$ your %r"(ary care %hys"c"an. I$ they dont %ersona##y *no the anser to the uest"on, they "## see* counse# $ro( the"r co##ea&ues. +hat "s ho the ho#e (ed"ca# syste( "s setu%. +hat "s hy there are s%ec"a#"sts. Q. Is there any uest"on "n your ("nd that had the $"t and co(%etent doctor )een on the scene, the treat(ent ou#d ha!e )een su$$"c"ent to &et h"( throu&h the tour A. -es, -es, theres no dou)t dou )t "n (y ("nd. Q. And as h"s ... Can you te## (e hat h"s &enera# &enera # cond"t"on "s )ased on the records "n A%r"#

)eg objection: calls for speculation. Mr. Mr. 'os%off: based on the records. Ms. (ahan: general condition1 The court: Michael *ac%son+s... Mr. Mr. 'os%off: general physical condition. The court: overruled. The witness: #any people said that his general ... That he was in great shape, that they

































Q. And )y the t"(e they &ot to the ... +he %er"od "((ed"ate#y )e$ore h"s death, hat as h"s cond"t"on A. /"s cond"t"on had deter"orated. deter"orated. eo%#e sa"d they ere atch"n& h"s deter"orat"on o!er that e"&ht6ee* "nter!a# )e$ore the"r !ery eyesF that he ... +hat he as una)#e to %er$or( % er$or( ... er$or( the ay he had %re!"ous#yF that he as ... /"s e"&ht ... /e as #os"n& e"&ht "ne4%#"ca)#yF that he as re%eat"n& h"(se#$F that he as con$usedF that he as %arano"dF that he as una)#e to do h"s (u#t"%#e 07 (o!es. +heres a re(ar*a)#e rec"tat"on and d escr"%t"on o$ the deter"orat"on that the %eo%#e around h"(, (any (an y o$ ho( ere e(%#oyed )y ) y AEG, sa. sa. Q. ou#d ou#d you ha!e to )e a s%ec"a#"st $ro( /ar!ard to see th"s A. No, I ou#d th"n* that ... Actua##y Actua##y,, they erent. +hey actua##y ... +hese e(a"#s sa"d, you *no ... So(e o$ the( sa"d Im not a doctor# but I can see that he needs professional help. And >r. >r. h"##"%s res%onded "n one o$ the e(a"#s to >r. Orte&a, well# ou "now# don't worr about this# stop ... /top ... 0e've got it under control. I've chec"ed che c"ed out Dr. Murra's credentials# ive tal"ed with him# he has the whole situation under control# and ou don't need to worr about this.

Ms. (ahan: your honor, honor, #ove to stri%e... The witness: and, in fact, Ms. 6aye... The court: hold on. There"s an objection. Ms. (ahan: #ove to stri%e stri%e as nonresponsive nonresponsive after no# I would thin" that ... Actuall# the weren't .

Q. hy do you th"n* they erent































Q. And, )y the ay, ay, d"d you *no ... +hey as*ed a)out %eo%#e ho ta#*ed a)out hether or not they ou#d ha!e access to the doctors )ecause o$ the doctorH%at"ent do ctorH%at"ent %r"!"#e&e, and that "t ou#d )e uneth"ca# $or a doctor to ta#* a)out h"s %at"ent. as as there ... D"d you see "n the records a %hone ca## )eteen dr. ... =eteen >r. >r. h"##"%s and Dr. >urray that #asted 2 ("nutes A. -es, I d"d. Q. And d"d you assu(e hen you sa that that they ere ta#*"n& a)out s%orts A. No, I d"d not. Q. And "s that sa(e doctorH%at"ent %r"!"#e&e ... Is "t e4act#y the sa(e hen the doctor "s or*"n& ... /as )een h"red )y the )"& cor%orat"on, )y the cor%orat"on

)eg objection: calls for speculation. The witness: that can create a conflict. The court: overruled9 why don"t you rephrase that. *ust rephrase rephrase it.

Q. hat does the e$$ect o$ a cor%orat"on #"*e AEG L"!e ha!e on the h "r"n& o$ a doctor to treat a %at"ent

*ac%sons objection: calls for speculation, outside his area of e0pertise. The court: that wasn"t the uestion ! was e0pecting. Mr. Mr. 'os%off: it was as%ed on cross. Ms. (ahan: no, it wasn"t. The court: sustained, the objection.































)eg objection: #isstates the evidence.

Q. D"d you assu(e $ro( that they ere d"scuss"n& >"chae# Jac*son@s hea#th

The court: hold on, the objection is1 Ms. (ahan: #isstates the evidence. The court: overruled. Mr. Mr. 'os%off: it will be up to the jury. The court: the jury will re#e#ber the evidence.

Q. And, "n $act, ere you aare o$ ... ?ead"n& >r. >r. h"##"%s de%os"t"on, that he d"scussed s%ec"$"ca##y there as a d"scuss"on o$ >r. Jac*sons s#ee% A. -es. Q. ro)#e(s "th Dr. >urray A. -es. Q. Counse# as*ed you a)out the *"nds o$ th"n&s that can co(e co (e $ro( #on&6ter( untreated chron"c s#ee% de%r"!at"onF "s that correct A. +hats correct. Q. And so(e o$ those th"n&s that can co(e $ro( "t ... And "s that one o$ the reasons, )y the ay, that you $ee# th"s $"e#d "s so "(%ortant A. -es. Q. So(e o$ the th"n&s are, $or e4a(%#e, )#ood %ressure %ro)#e(s































The court: oh, you"re you"re as%ing as%ing hi#. Mr. Mr. 'os%off: based on his review of records. records.

Q. -ou -ou re!"eed the auto%sy re%ort A. -es, -es, theres no e!"dence o$... Q. ro)#e(s "th hor(one re&u#at"on A. +heres no e!"dence o$ that. Q. Any %ro)#e(s "th ... /es had card"o!ascu#ar %ro)#e(s A. In h"s card"o!ascu#ar syste(, he had no e!"dence o$ any ca#c"$"cat"on... Q. D"d he ha!e any e!"dence o$ #"!er %ro)#e(s A. No, no e!"dence o$ that. Q. D"d he ha!e any e!"dence o$ cancer A. No. Q. So "$ he had )een a%%ro%r"ate#y treated and %ro%erty treated $or h"s s#ee% de$"c"ency, do you ha!e any reason to )e#"e!e h"s #"$e e4%ectancy ou#d )e "n any ay "(%a"red A. No.

Mr. Mr. Panish: !+# giving hi# a five8#inute warning. The court: &%. 6ive8#inute warning. Mr. Mr. Panish: he said he had 47, ! wanted to tell hi# he had only five #inutes left. ! want to go ho#e. Mr. Mr. 'os%off: you were as%ed about your opinion... opinion...































Q. And under the c"rcu(stances o$ th"s case, are you ... Do you ha!e an o%"n"on hether ... And she as*ed you ... Counse# as*ed you a)out the %ro(oters ro#e "n th"s, hether they cou#d reco&n"9e. Do you th"n* that th"s "s so(eth"n& that shou#d ha!e )een reco&n"9ed to anyone ho ca(e "n contact "th >"chae# on an on&o"n& )as"s A. e##, "t as reco&n"9ed )y (u#t"%#e %eo%#e ho ere "n contact "th h"(. Q. Are you say"n& that they shou#d ha!e *non that tha t the cause as s#ee% de%r"!at"on A. No, I a( not say"n& sa y"n& that. Q. hat are you say"n& A. +hey shou#d ha!e *non that th at he as ... And they d"d not"ce that he as deter"orat"n& and needed (ed"ca# he#%, and (any ... >r. Orte&a and others ho or*ed $or AEG L"!e ca##ed ... Contacted the %res"dent o$ AEG L"!e and ... And su&&ested that such he#% )e sou&h t.

)eg objection: your honor9 #isstates the evidence. Mr. Mr. &rtega is not an )@A ;ive e#ployee. The court: yes &%. Sustained as to Mr. Mr. &rtega being an )@A e#ployee or e0ecutive. The witness: ! apologiBe. The court: &%. !f you"ve got one last uestion... Mr. Mr. 'os%off: you were as%ed about ... )t your deposition, counsel as%ed you on cross8 e0a#ination here about what your opinion was at the deposition concerning propofol and its effect on Michael *ac%son+s perfor#ance, et cetera.

Q. Do you reca## that uest"on A. -es.

































Q. -es. A. And I sa"d "n (y de%os"t"on that he had chron"c "nso(n"a. Q. And I@d #"*e to sho that to the 'ury so that the 'ury 'ur y can see e4act#y hat he d"d say. say. +he uest"on "s hether or not he had "nso(n"a.

The court: let the deposition spea% for itself. Play the deposition. Mr. Mr. $oyle: page 278 through through 28.

L) video clip was played during which the following testi#ony was saidL ). )nd so ! thin% ... ! certainly thin% it"s #ore probable than not that he had so#e type of inso#nia, but that"s #ore or less as far as one can go. !t"s not possible fro# the record to deter#ine if it"s psychophysiological inso#nia, or if it"s inso#nia associated with all the red bull that he was drin%ing that nurse ;ee #entioned, or ... &r whether it was the environ#ental conditions because they both tal%ed about the fact that the lights were glaring in his roo# and the #usic was playing very loudly.

Q. Is that the "nso(n"a that you test"$"ed at your de%os"t"on a)out "nso(n"a































A. -es, -es, thats ... +hats )ased on (y re!"e o$ the records that I as %ro!"ded. Q. And youre assu("n& that he as &ett"n& %ro%o$o# e!ery n"&ht $or that %er"od o$ t"(e $or the %ur%oses o$ th"s o%"n"on, correct A. I@( )as"n& that on the records that I re!"eed, h"ch "nd"cated that he as &ett"n& "t n"&ht#y $or 7 days. Q. =ut you dont *no ho (uch at a t"(e, or $or ho #on& A. +he records that I re!"eed "nd"cated that he as &ett"n& "t throu&hout the n"&ht.

*ac%sons: objections The witness: every night. The court: hold on. Mr. Mr. Panish: let hi# answer. answer. The witness: throughout the night for 7 days, that he was getting it throughout the night all night for 7 days.

Q. And the records you re!"eed you )e#"e!e ere re#"a)#e and an d accurate accounts o$ hat































Q. =ut "$ >r. Jac*son d"dnt ant that (ed"ca# care, he cou#d re$use "t, r"&ht A. >r. Jac*son certa"n#y cou#d ha!e re$used "t. Q. And >r. >r. Jac*son d"dnt d"e d "e $ro( s#ee% de%r"!at"on A. >r. Jac*son ... +he "((ed"ate cause o$ death as acute %ro%o$o# "nto4"cat"on. Q. And you ... -ou -ou sa"d that "$ he as a%%ro%r"ate#y treated and h"s s#ee% %ro)#e(s had )een cured "n the s%r"n&Hsu((er o$ 2, "t ou#d not ha!e a$$ected h"s #"$e e4%ectancy, "n your o%"n"on, r"&ht A. I$ the treat(ent ere success$u#, "t shou#dnt ha!e ha! e a$$ected h"s #"$e e4%ectancy e4%ectanc y. Q. =ut "$ the treat(ent ere not success$u#, and he cont"nued to ha!e s#ee% %ro)#e(s as he had had $or ... I th"n* you sa"d decades ... A. +hats correct. Q. +hat ou#d ha!e a$$ected h"s #"$e e4%ectancy, correct A. +hats correct.

Ms. (ahan: that"s all ! have. 6urther redirect e0a#ination by Mr. 'os%off































The court: &% than% you, sir. sir. You #ay step down. The witness: than% you very #uch, your honor. honor. The court: than% you, went longer than ! thought. $ut than% you. =ave a good trip to $oston. &%ay to#orrow, ! understand it"s a half day, day, right1 ! always do that. !"# sorry. ! always say that.
DThe following proceedings were held in open court, outside the presence of the jurors :E The court: &% !+# going to wor% on that ;eiwe%e depo so we can deal with that on Monday. ! haven"t been able to get to it. Mr. Mr. Panish: fair enough, &%. Than% you. The court: did you want to tal% about what we"re doing on Monday1 You #ight have decided a#ong yourselves, ! just don"t re#e#ber e0actly. Mr. Mr. Panish: !+# trying to get >r. >r. Matheson to co#e. The court: and you"re going to co##unicate with the#1 Mr. Mr. Panish: absolutely, !+# going to give the# C5 hours. That"s what we"re wor%ing on now. !"ll confir# it for the# in the #orning, but that"s hopefully our intention. So there

Jackson V AEGLive- Transcripts - June 21st Dr. Charles Czeisler. Sleep Medicine, Harvard Medical School

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