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Injector calibration on a pop tester
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TDI Power Enhancements Discussions about increasing the power of your TDI engine. i.e. chips, injectors, powerboxes, clutches, etc. Handling, suspensions, suspensions, wheels, type discussion discussion should should be put into the "Upgrades (non (non TDI Engine Engine related)" related)" forum. Non TDI vehicle related postings will be moved or removed. Please note the Performance Disclaimer. Disclaimer .
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 > Thread Tools April 24th, 2013, 2013, 07:12
JFettig Vendor
#1 Injector calibration on a pop tester
First off, this thread is NOT for bashing, not for advertising, not for flaming, its for education! Secondly, I sold all my pop testing equipment, I'm not pop testing stuff for you guys! This is not a guide for n00bs, seatman: feel free to watch.
Join Date: Aug Date: Aug 2010 Location: Forest Location: Forest Lake, MN TDI(s): B5 Passat Fuel Economy: 42 Economy: 42 MPG
If you want to talk about how x process is better than y process in an ignorant manner, go elsewhere. Images are unedited, I'm doing this quick because I just want to put this out there without putting much time into it, feel free to add constructive information constructive information This thread is mostly about how to do 2 stage injectors. First step - lap nozzle backs. Use a piece of flat granite and 400 grit sand paper before:
during:
during:
after:
The purpose of this is to ensure the needle is exactly flush with the back of the nozzle. this is primarily for setting the 2nd stage. You might have to lap these again if it leaks down fast above the first stage pressure. It is extremely important that you don't pull the needle out, mess with it, or anything after lapping, look at all the grit in there! Next, give them a bath in simple green/water in a HF ultrasonic cleaner:
The grit will come out, needle will fall out when you pick them up - usually, be careful. Take one out at a time, do not mix them up!!! __________________ Malone Tuning Dealer Tuning 1996 to present, including Common Rail and DSG! 1998 B5 Passat TDI 234hp/373ft-lbs 2009 JSW Stage 3 196whp so far ECU Socketing DIY injector calibration http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383324
April 24th, 2013, 07:12
#2
JFettig Vendor
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Forest Lake, MN TDI(s): B5 Passat Fuel Economy: 42 MPG
With the needle still out(keep track!) give them a big juicy spray of brake cleaner
Next: with your harbor freight vice with soft jaws, clamp onto an injector
crack nozzle nut loose and start turning it off
hold up a sec and clean off the soot
remove nozzle, needle, and nut
put your finger just above the hat and give them a high pressure squirt of brake cleaner to clean off any soot
__________________ Malone Tuning Dealer Tuning 1996 to present, including Common Rail and DSG! 1998 B5 Passat TDI 234hp/373ft-lbs 2009 JSW Stage 3 196whp so far ECU Socketing DIY injector calibration http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383324
April 24th, 2013, 07:12
#3
JFettig Vendor
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Forest Lake, MN TDI(s): B5 Passat Fuel Economy: 42 MPG
Race 520
Clean your nuts
Install nuts, turn it down until you feel it contact, add 30 degrees rotation(lots of other specs are out there, this is what I use) Connect to pop tester
With the gauge shut off - knob turned all the way in, chatter test, crank the crap out of it. This does a few things - it seats all the components, and it tests to make sure it pops correctly - you'll hear it. Open air spray test afterwords, I didn't take a pic of that
Loosen knob, check pilot pressure. its a procedure to get it cranked up exactly to the pop and let it fly. I turn the shut-off knob to do it accurately
see video http://vimeo.com/64677326 This shows it popping at 190bar, you can also see leakdown, this is very good, Bosio R520 nozzles are some of the better ones I've seen for leakdown other than Bosch. This one is low. I set the pilots on R520 between 230-240bar __________________ Malone Tuning Dealer Tuning 1996 to present, including Common Rail and DSG! 1998 B5 Passat TDI 234hp/373ft-lbs 2009 JSW Stage 3 196whp so far ECU Socketing DIY injector calibration http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383324
April 24th, 2013, 07:12
#4
JFettig Vendor
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Forest Lake, MN TDI(s): B5 Passat Fuel Economy: 42 MPG
Pull it apart, lay components out on a clean surface
you can see the main pressure shim
dump out the guts, keep track!
Special tool: paperclip with special bends
remove pilot shim:
measure pilot shim:
Generally, every .001" is approx 5 bar, I needed to go from 210bar to 240bar. Box of shims, lots to choose from:
re-assemble, test see video http://vimeo.com/64677328 __________________ Malone Tuning Dealer Tuning 1996 to present, including Common Rail and DSG! 1998 B5 Passat TDI 234hp/373ft-lbs 2009 JSW Stage 3 196whp so far ECU Socketing DIY injector calibration http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383324
April 24th, 2013, 07:13
#5
JFettig Vendor
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Forest Lake, MN TDI(s): B5 Passat Fuel Economy: 42 MPG
here is a #3 injector, be careful not to damage the needle lift sensor!
On to the main stage, this is easy. Standard hat:
lock-out hat:
Its extremely important the lock-out is made to exacting dimensions, I'm talking tenths. Remember when I said it might need to be lapped again? http://vimeo.com/64677330 Main pressures are almost always high, look at how high this one goes from a simple nozzle swap and pilot pressure increase(yes, pilot pressure adds onto the main) http://vimeo.com/64677329 __________________ Malone Tuning Dealer Tuning 1996 to present, including Common Rail and DSG! 1998 B5 Passat TDI 234hp/373ft-lbs 2009 JSW Stage 3 196whp so far ECU Socketing DIY injector calibration http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383324
April 24th, 2013, 07:16
#6
JFettig Vendor
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Forest Lake, MN
Changing the flow on a nozzle is easy, but you must have digital equipment as far as I know, popping into a beaker probably won't work. To reduce flow, remove material from the back of the nozzle, not the needle, leave the needle sit a few tenths up, to increase flow, remove from the back of the needle. Its impossible to pop test the 2nd stage once you've done this. __________________ Malone Tuning Dealer Tuning 1996 to present, including Common Rail and DSG!
TDI(s): B5 Passat Fuel Economy: 42 MPG
1998 B5 Passat TDI 234hp/373ft-lbs 2009 JSW Stage 3 196whp so far ECU Socketing DIY injector calibration http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383324
April 24th, 2013, 07:18
#7
davebugs Vendor
I NEVER plan on doing this - or obtaining the equipment to.
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pittsburgh suburb TDI(s): 2001 Golf TDI Automatic, MKIV rear axle bushing install tools Fuel Economy: 40
But thanks for the writeup. Certainly helps a fella understand whats involved.
April 24th, 2013, 07:39
#8
LNXGUY Veteran Member
Great write up! __________________ Bill ---------------------
Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Barrie, Ont, Canada TDI(s): '05 Jetta TDI Wagon
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon Custom tuned by Mike @ TDTuning.com
April 24th, 2013, 07:41
#9
sirpuddingfoot Veteran Member
Demystifying! __________________ '05 Passat TDI - Ventectomy - BSM Delete - Nicktane Head with 2u Cat Fuel Filter '05 Mk4 Jetta TDI - Ventectom y - DG F MJ Panzerplate - HR Sport Springs and 28mm Rear Sway Bar - TT LCA Bushings -Nicktane 1u Fuel Filter - MaloneTuning Stage 1.5 ...for now
Join Date: May 2010 Location: Saint Paul, MN TDI(s): 05 Passat, 05 Jetta
April 24th, 2013, 07:45
AARodriguez Corp. Vendor w/Business number
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South East USA TDI(s): 2009 JSW
#10
I think this thread deserves a "sticky" Wow! __________________ Yes, I am a Malone Tune Dealer for ALL VW and Audi cars and DSG transmissions, no waiting required
and Golf 2004 TDI
April 24th, 2013, 07:56
#11
Chris Tobin Veteran Member
Hand lapping on the granite seems a little risky to me... If you are removing any material, wouldn't you run the risk of inducing an angle to it, as it would be difficult to hand hold it at exactly 90-degrees... Do the shops that offer balancing/pop testing do this by hand or use machines/jigs to do it?
Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Tennessee TDI(s): '06 Jetta TDI
Just wondering, not trying to question the methods or anything... __________________
Chris Tobin
Freelance Editor & Photographer
Working with DIESEL WORLD, DIRT SPORTS & other mags
[email protected] Custom poster size photos available. PM or email for info.
April 24th, 2013, 08:09
#12
JFettig Vendor
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Forest Lake, MN TDI(s): B5 Passat Fuel Economy: 42 MPG
Not sure Chris, hand lapping takes off .001" at most, most have only needed tenths lapped. __________________ Malone Tuning Dealer Tuning 1996 to present, including Common Rail and DSG! 1998 B5 Passat TDI 234hp/373ft-lbs 2009 JSW Stage 3 196whp so far ECU Socketing DIY injector calibration http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383324
April 24th, 2013, 08:20
#13
Chris Tobin Veteran Member
Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Tennessee TDI(s): '06 Jetta TDI
April 24th, 2013, 08:36
FlyTDI Guy Veteran Member
Ya, I guess with 400 you can't take too much off... I would still be concerned with getting pieces out of square with each other though... I'm curious what shops that offer this service do? Do they have a jig or machine to do it, or are they doing it by hand too??? __________________
Chris Tobin
Freelance Editor & Photographer
Working with DIESEL WORLD, DIRT SPORTS & other mags
[email protected] Custom poster size photos available. PM or email for info.
#14
Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: PNW TDI(s): '01 Jetta GLS Fuel Economy: 56.5/44/41
It is tough to get something perfectly flat by hand. If you use straight strokes, you'll take more from the leading edge. Small circular motions tends to work the outer edges more than the center. If I get one that is stubborn and leaks, first step is re-clean, then I tighten more (reasonably so), then as a last measure swap into another body. If none of those work, it's time to send it back for another. Usually it's a clean issue and solved by one of the first three methods. Without proper milling equipment, trying to flatten by hand is a risky crap shoot and very technique dependent. They should already be flat well beyond hand methods from the factory. JMHO... __________________
'01 Jett a GLS, 5 sp, Black on Black, Leather, Sun Roof, MFSW, Mo nsoon, Co ld Weather Pkg., Full LED interior, always a wo rk in progress
April 24th, 2013, 08:52
#15
JFettig Vendor
One shop I talked to uses the same technique I use.
Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Forest Lake, MN TDI(s): B5 Passat Fuel Economy: 42 MPG
For the first set I jigged them up on a surface grinder - way too much work! __________________ Malone Tuning Dealer Tuning 1996 to present, including Common Rail and DSG! 1998 B5 Passat TDI 234hp/373ft-lbs 2009 JSW Stage 3 196whp so far ECU Socketing DIY injector calibration http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=383324
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