Weaponeer Forums_ STEN Mk II Build

15/03/2016

Weaponeer Forums: STEN Mk II Build

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STEN Mk II Build Printed From: Weaponeer.net Forum Name: STEN MKII, MKIII, and MKV Forum Discription: SemiAuto Build Information URL: http://www.weaponeer.net//forum//forum_posts.asp?TID=10177 Printed Date: March 15 2016 at 8:50am Topic: STEN Mk II Build Posted By: blurrededge Subject: STEN Mk II Build Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 12:56am Alright, finally got around to starting a build. I've got alot more done that I have photo's of, but I got so 'in the groove' while working that I forgot the keep taking shots with each step. Here's what I have sofar: Put my AR trigger group into my trigger housing. I made a little box to test my measurements before doing this just to make sure everything would line up. I'll post pics of that soon.

I know the hammer hole is too close to the dust cover holes, those were welded closed and a dimple ground there so the dust cover would still fit. I didn't take the size of the holes into account when I decided where to mount them. Trigger before cutting the spring hook off to make the notch for the trigger bar:

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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After the cut:

Now, time to make a new trigger bar since I don't want to cut up the old one and it should be easy enough to make. I'm doing alot of things that make more work for me on this, but I am learning ALOT from the experience, which is worth much more to me in the long run. This old rusty wrench in the scrap bin is about the right thickness and should be plenty strong. I cleaned it up on the belt sander so I could apply the dyechem.


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Next I traced the bar, minus the 90* piece since it won't be needed.

Then I cut it out with the reciprocating saw, and cleaned it up on the grinder and the belt sander.

That's all I have pics of right now, but I've already done most of the work on the tube, including the blocking bar (first thing I did), the mag well cuts, the front trunion cuts, which includs a blocking nub to keep standard short barrels from being installed, and the cocking slot, which I moved alittle higher so a regular sten bolt wouldn't line up with it. I also have most of my bolt machined out of a 1.5" bar of 4140, just need to figure out the firing pin. My major obstacle at the moment is figuring out the best way to ressurect all the machining done after the drill bit for the firing pin hole http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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broke off inside the bolt face. I have a few suggestions on how to rectify this, but any other suggestions are welcome. More pics to come when I can get them.

Semper Fi Replies: Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 12:21am Alright, more pics. In a sortof order... Here's the Trigger housing with modified AR trigger, trigger bar, demill hacksaw cuts welded up, and dust cover detent holes welded up with a dimple ground in place to locate it. Thanks to trickyrick for the guidance on alot of this. I moved my FCG as far forward as I could. The hammer does reach higher into the tube, but with my bolt, it won't be a problem. I just had to make sure that the hammers cocked height and end of travel would be doable without having to make to deep of a slot in the bolt.

Tabs welded on for the trigger spring. Hard to see, but the inside of the trigger housing was thinned just a tad with the mill so I wouldn't have to skinny up the AR FCG parts. Cutting the notch where the trigger used to be was bad enough, these parts were Tough!


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Here you can see the denting from testing the hammer/disconnector release (before I realized it was beating up the nose). I had to weld a dot on the bottom of the hammer notch to get rid of the gap. If I released the trigger fast enough from the disconnector, the notch would catch on the front, but a slow steady release and it was just enough to miss and fall forward again.

This little box helped Greatly with figuring out how far I could push the limits of the FCG forward and vertically.


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Here's the tube (still some cuts to be made: cocking handle Jhook, trunion weld holes, rear Jhooks for cap) Right Side. Cocking slot has been moved higher than the blueprints indicated so it won't work with a FA bolt.

Top view.

Left Side. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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Bottom. Directly in front of the hammer slot is the blocking bar (large hex key) welded in place. Alittle sloppy, but it was my first real attempt at welding with the MIG. I placed it there so that: a) The hammer slot cut into the bolt will also clear the blocking bar making alittle less work, and b) the hammer has something harder than the trigger housing to contact incase the trigger is pulled with no bolt in the tube.

Looking down the tube from the rear.

The ejector claw was cut from the same wrench used for the trigger bar. Trunion fitted to the front of the tube.

For a block to keep a standard short barrel from being installed, I was going to use a length of an old broken punch from the scrap box. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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After figuring out a location and thinking over things a bit, I decided that the cleaned up end of the punch would also make a decent front sight, so I drilled the hole all the way through and will cut and weld the punch once I have approximated the necessary height of the front sight off the tube. When drilling the hole in the trunion, I installed my barrel and drilled the ring on that too, which I then cleaned up with an end mill. One bennefit of being able to locate the barrel in the same position every time, aside from consistency with trajectory, is being able to reposition a feed ramp incase one needs to be made in the base of the barrel.


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Here's the cocking nob I spun next to the original. This was my First use of the lathe... ever.

Here's how it sits in the bolt, and the hole in the bolt for it.


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Here's the trigger housing slid onto the tube.


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Hammer forward as viewed through the cocking slot resting on the blocking bar.

Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 12:29am is that an original id tube? looking good.

Posted By: blurrededge http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 1:29am Now, about my bolt. As I mentioned earlier, when I was drilling my firing pin hole in the front, the bit broke off. I decided to try to anneal the bit while still in the bolt (hence the coloring), so that it could be ground with small diamond bits in the dremmel, or drilled out maybe. Well, I got the front of the bolt as red hot as I could, and dropped it into a coffee can full of vermiculite (coutresy of work) to slow the cooling process. Well, the diamond bits were able to flatten the end of the drill bit after it had fully cooled, but couldn't seem to get any further. So, I decided, after some advice from 'the old man' (not My old man), to drill from the back of the bolt, just up to the tip of the bit, and then punch it out the front. Here's how the story goes: The Bolt.

Frontal Angle.

I still have more to trim off the bolt body to get back down to stock bolt weight. Before I made and cuts to the front for the feed lips, extractor slot, ejector slot, and blocking bar/ hammer slot, the bolt was twice the weight of my sten bolt. Drilling in with the first larger bit as far as I could go without opening up into the deep cuts in the front of the bolt.


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Following up with a smaller bit. The green tape is an approximation of when I need to go Real slow as I'll be getting close to where I guess the broken drillbit might be (very technical/scientific stuff).

So, here's what happened. The smaller bit went for a walk...


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came through the slot cut for the extractor as well

At this point I accepted the fact that I was going to have to drill the core of the bolt and press a rod in to reshape, so it was time to get this damn broken bit out. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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I decided to chuck the bolt in the mill and attack the bit from above and behind.

The results.

The endmill was strong enough to knock the broken tip loose and it popped right out the front hole. I neglected to pay attention to the top of the cutter though, and it gouged the top of the extractor groove badly. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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I chock it all up to learning experience. This project is my introduction to mill and lathe work, and I've learned ALOT. Here's the bolt before drilling for the insert.

And After.

A shot from high rear, note the light through the now clear firing pin hole.


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Next I'll retrieve the 3/4" 4140 rod, and prepare it the way I SHOULD have done the bolt.

Facing the end of the rod on the lathe.


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and then center drilling it.

I'll end with this shot of the bolt in the tube, since I forgot to add it earlier. That's all for now. Once I figure out exactly what I'm doing for my firing pin arrangement, I can then drill the rod to the predetermined depth before turning it down and sizing it to fit the hole in the center of the bolt. After that, I'll have to recontour the bolt face, the recess for the rim, and possibly the extractor and ejector claw cuts. I can't make the fit too tight either or it may push out and distort the very thin metal currently on the feed lips. And yes, the feed lips will be cut back with the rim recess once it's reshaped.


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More to come when I get to it. Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 1:31am Yep, original ID tube. .065" wall, 1.5" OD. Semper Fi

Posted By: midmichigun Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 8:01am Blurr Nice going!

I have a Sten project on hold right now.

If you can, let us know what dimensions you are using in all things! I have the SGN article on CD (and paper) on what Mathews did.... I am looking for other methods. I will have more questions... but I am at work right now!

Posted By: nacht Date Posted: October 01 2009 at 8:38am Looking good! You must be a natural with a lathe. I have had my lathe 40 years and I ain't as good as you. This will not be your last build. It gets in your blood.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: October 04 2009 at 7:21pm Got alittle more done. The insert is now welded into the bolt and started reshaping it. I added some weld to the top of the extractor cut where it got gouged by the endmill, since I'm going to need to anneal the whole bolt with the weld so it can be drilled and machined http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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anyway. Started work on the firing pin, it's not precise, but it's something to start with. starting to turn the insert:

Getting there, but still a ways to go.


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Closer:


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Time for some finishing passes. The Old Man gave me another tip. Hold a damp rag against the piece to catch the fine chips and help polish it. Seems to work okay, but it helps if the cutter isn't getting dull.


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(Normally I use my right hand, but it's hard to take a pic with my left) Time to trim off the end that held the center:


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Insert is ready for the hole drilled in the bolt.


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Insert welded in, refaced, and recutting the ejector slot.


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I realize there is a large gap in play by play pics, but I got into the groove again, and forgot to take them. I used the firing pin from my FEG HiPower copy to get some dimensions and ideas. Also had some extra FP springs that I thought might work. At the moment, I'm going with a larger spring (not sure what it's from) that slips right over the 3/16" O1 drill rod I'm using for the firing pin.


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While waiting for the Bolt to cool, I got some more done on the trigger housing. I like trickyricks idea of welding a bracket to the tube to screw the triggerhousing onto. I welded a block of 1/4" steel onto the nose, which will also strengthen it against hammer falls. Also welded a hefty piece of angle onto the bottom of the tube. I'll have to get pics of that next time. The bolt apparently wasn't drilled on center for the insert, so the firing pin channel and hole that was drilled into the insert isn't centered on the bolt face. So, I'm going to keep going with this bolt because I really want to get it done for this coming weekend; but I'm not happy with it, and there are things I would have done differently if I had a chance to do it over... experience is the best teacher.

Semper Fi

Posted By: midmichigun Date Posted: October 04 2009 at 8:35pm Blur, Nice work!

Seriously, if this is your first go around... you are doing REAL well!

As you mentioned, experience.... but don't fret. I have seen alot of people drilling holes that are long and the bit tends to wander. It is real tough! Looking forward to seeing this thing shoot!

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: October 04 2009 at 9:36pm blurr, i know how those wandering holes are. i messed up a pps bolt that way. i had a broken bit also, thought i got it all out and didn't. bit did the same thing, hit the broken one and shot off to the side. glad you could use something i posted, although i'm sure i got it from somewhere else.

keep on going and remember the pics.


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Posted By: bikergunnut Date Posted: October 05 2009 at 12:43am Nice progress

. Didn't the old man tell you to roll up those sleeves

. A folded up rag would be less likely to catch.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: October 05 2009 at 1:22am It's getting chilly up here in New England... was about 39* when I started working that morning. Otherwise the sleeves are usually up... unless the dremmel or die grinder is sending hot sparks up my arm.

Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: October 07 2009 at 12:45am More Progress. cutting the feed lips off the bolt face after the rim recess was cut.

Then recutting the extractor groove. (Original bolt present for comparison)


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Seems I had to cut into the firing pin channel anyway after adding the insert.


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Then test fitting the extractor... which is now too long...


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Guess I'll just have to make a new one that's alittle shorter:


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It's getting there, I'll have to final fit it tomorrow. As well as finish up this firing pin with alignment and protrusion, etc.


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Here's some shots of the Mounting block for the Trigger Housing.


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And we'll end todays update with the barrel nut and length of pipe I cut out for the handguard. I've scribed the three lines for the vent holes, but have no data on spacing and size, just photos... Anyone care to measure their Mk III handguard holes and give me some dimensions?

Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: October 08 2009 at 10:30am The front sight that won't be... I started welding the front trunion to the tube, along with the front


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sight

Once the trunion holes were filled in, I started building up around the base of the front sight... and got alittle carried away.


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Starting to shape the splats


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...and time to cut and grind it all off because I forgot that the magazine well needs to clear it, and with the trigger group tang welded on the bottom, I can't slide it on the back of the tube either.

This will not be ready for the weekend unfortunately, so I'm going to take a few days off from working on it right now. I've been trying to rush things and making mistakes, and I want to take a step back before I mess something else up.


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Semper Fi

Posted By: nacht Date Posted: October 08 2009 at 2:46pm You ain't the first person to make that mistake. I, for one, normally don't mention it. Your work is excellent for a 1st build. I do think the front sight was a little tall, but I figured you were not through with it when you caught your error.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: October 08 2009 at 7:19pm I wasn't too worried about the sight alignment when I installed it, it was "close enough" when I checked it through the 'ol peep down the barrel and then through the sights trick. Nothing some filing wouldn't be able to correct. I think to fix this I might drill and tap a spot to screw one onto the receiver, but I have to think about that some more. New bar for a new bolt ordered today; it'll be a few days before my next update. Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 01 2009 at 11:48pm So maybe it was alittle more than a few days... Here's the new stock, the original bolt, and the botched first bolt.

Facing the stock. The stock was just a hair too big to fit through the chuck so I had to face it hanging out, but lucky for me it spun close enough to true (no visible run out) http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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turning down the OD


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Getting ready to cut off the piece.

I could only go sofar with the tool, and the bandsaw was waiting for a new blade, so I put it in the vice and used a hacksaw.


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Then I faced the end I just cut.


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Turned the OD down to final dimensions.


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Then I cut the bolt face recess, using a 6 flute 3/8" cutter.


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That's all I got done last time. Hopefully wednesday I will be able to get back to the shop before work and do alittle more.

Semper Fi

Posted By: gundoctor Date Posted: November 02 2009 at 12:17am Great build, photo's, and documentation.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 05 2009 at 12:33am alittle more work done this morning before work. got an extension made for the back of the bolt out of a random hunk of pipe... I'm afraid it might be electrical conduit but we'll see how it works for now.


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, Top View

Next it was time to get this firing pin nonsense figured out. I took some annealed 3/16 O1 drill rod and attempted to turn it down in the lathe


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It was flexing under the tool pressure, I could barely make out a visual taper cut getting thinner the closer it got to the chuck.

So, I choked up on it, and figured i would try doing shorter sections at a time.


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I also noticed that the tool was conveniently sharp enough to cut the face of the rod, so I tried working sideways. Instead of cutting the od smaller and smaller over the length, I would do it across the width, very slowly.

seems to be working, so I brought it out further to do the next segment.


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starting to look halfway decent...

Roughed to shape... just need to touch it up with the files


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all contoured and ready for a polish

Until it decides to snap at the base of the shaft


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I attempted to do it again, but the second time it was tapering way to much, and drawing the tool in as it turned, so there was a drastic taper in the middle that ended up snapping again... So I found a good sized drill bit with a long shank and used that instead. here it is with the original bolt (I was comparing the firing pin tips)


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empty head

Filled


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I'm not sure if that recessed area around the firing pin hole will be a problem or not as far as supporting the primer enough so it doesn't try to pop out. anyway, I found that the bolt face recess was just a tiny bit too small... so I hunted around through the ''drawer o' mills'' and found one that was just about .400" a hair larger than the sten bolt face recess at .389", so I chucked it up and started to cut it out alittle bigger. Here you can see the rim is just alittle too big for the current recess.

preparing to cut it out


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czeching the cut, you can see how little it's taking off (red arrow points to the cut lip).

now the brass fits with alittle wiggle room. The extractor will probably take most of that up once it's installed.


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almost forgot, here's the finished firing pin with spring under the bolt and extension tube. I must have forgotten to take a pic of the extension cap I made... I'll put that up tomorrow with tomorrows work pics.

and I'll end today with a quote from the old man "...ya know, they make these machines capable of measuring thousandths of an inch for a Reason"


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Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 06 2009 at 10:32am Waiting for the dykem to dry.

I'm using a ring of the receiver tube to line up the bolts so I can trace the feed lips and ejector cut onto the new one.


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should be close enough to get in the ballpark

snugged it up in the vice, and found a 3/4" endmill that will take off alot of extra material. Apparently I discovered a 'special tool', according to the old man, used for doing something with ratchets (?). I'm not sure what he meant, but it cut a barely visible dovetail shape.


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Time to make the ejector claw cut with the 1/8" cutter


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I ended up snapping the tool, which wasn't in that great a shape to begin with... but it was the only one that size. So, I had to finish it up with a 3/16" cutter. Forgot to take pics during that process though; it would be alot easier if I had a secretary to take the shots and write down measurements and do calculations for me. I can dream right. Anyway, I also found a pristine ball endmill (I think that's what it's called) that looked to be the perfect size to finish up the bolt, cutting the feed lips etc.


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time to cut the other side. At this point I tried the presicion method. Found the center of the piece, then the distance from center that I'd gone to the one side, and went that same distance the other way from center using the thousandths dial. It took a while to get it right until I remembered I have to take into account half the width of the tool etc.


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here it is all finished up.

Forgot to take pics of the blocking bar slot that screwed me last time by having to remove toomuch material. Since I used a hex key for the bar, the rounded endmill would still work, and just happened to be the same width. Finding that particular cutter saved me ALOT of work on this bolt.


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reminds me of a PPs43 bolt with the round cutout in the side like that (which is technically, the bottom of the bolt)


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In this last one, you can see where I used the alightly larger cutter to finish the ejector slot. It also went a hair deeper and exposed the firing pin slot, but there's enough space where it won't be an issue.

Checking my work for clearance on the ejector

and the magazine. It looks close and not centered in the pic, but the mag well was slightly skewed, it lines up great now. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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here's the extension parts for the back of the bolt. still need to get my dimensions nailed down, as that tube is probably a bit long.

And here's a mock up with no guts


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http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/abn0rml/STEN/tease1.jpg " rel = "nofollow

Semper Fi

Posted By: dcorb Date Posted: November 06 2009 at 10:48am Nice work! Great job on the bolt. You got me all interested in getting back to work on my tube gun builds.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 06 2009 at 10:54am Glad I could be of inspiration Semper Fi

Posted By: Dragon2Zero Date Posted: November 06 2009 at 9:09pm That'll never work.

That'll never work.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 06 2009 at 11:38pm Yeah I knew it was you before I even read the PM, your user name was a dead give away assclown Bout time you showed up over here again.


.

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D2Zero is in my reenacting unit, and we've worked on a few projects together. Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 11 2009 at 12:25am Alittle more progress. I will probably redo the extension for the back of the bolt I made because; a) I think it's too flimsy to hold up, so why risk it, and b) I also realized that when the bolt recoils in the original version, the bolt is stopped by the rim of the recoil spring cap, not by the back of the spring guide on the back of the bolt. So, I'm going to make the next version of the extension have a large enough washer to do that, which will transfer the force to the main bolt body via the thicker extension tube. I also ended up with a bolt that's a bit lighter than the original, so hopefully a more meaty extension will help get it back to original weight. Not that a few ounces will really matter, but I'd rather run as close as reasonable. Anyway, I'm including this next bit just incase someone out there hadn't thought of it, and it can come in handy. This was done so I could mill a slot in the bolt extension that I will Not be using, but the tip is still helpful. If you're going to have to make a cut in a piece of round tube that will get crushed by the vice under too much force, or get jarred loose by the tool under too little vice pressure, a wooden mandrel on the inside will make life easier. I used a cut off length of broom handle because it was the closest to the ID I needed.

it fit tight, but that's good when you're going to need to clamp down on it.


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Here's how it worked, much better than the attempt without it (bottom). The endmill wripped it right up out of the vice once it cut enough of the supporting surface away.

After many discouraging failures at fabricating a suitable bolt extension, I took a break and worked on another charging handle, since I also wasn't satisfied with the first one I made, I wanted it to extend into the bolt body deeper. Here's the original, the first one, and the 1/2" rod stock that will be the new one.


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Chucked in the lathe and ready for fruition

Turning the rough contour.


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Finishing up the rough cuts. The files you see below will be used to finish shaping it. It's really hard to take a picture when you need both hands for the tool, and I was doing so well that I forgot to take a final photo. I'll try to remember tomorrow.

I also got the firing pin retaining pin hole drilled, but this is the only photo I have of that since the drill bit broke while going out the other side. I had to flip the bolt and relocate the hole position since the bit wanted to wander as it hit the firing pin hole. Luckily I was able to punch it out, and then redrill with a slightly larger bit (after finding a new larger pin, which ended up being a rollpin) to get the hole straight all the way through. The problem with that however, was that it meant I had to cut deeper into the firing pin body to clear the larger retaining pin. The whole thing is made of drill rod, so hopefully I can harden and temper it well enough that it won't create a weak spot or be an issue.


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That's all for today. Hopefully tomorrow will be more productive, and I'll remember to take more pics.

Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: November 11 2009 at 2:24am lookin good blurr

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 12 2009 at 12:48am More progress, but yet again, forgot to take alot of pics. I still wasn't happy with the way the bolt extension was coming out, so I used the one I had originally machined as part of the first bolt attempt. (the part Not discollored by annealing)

After doing alittle trimming to get the extension fit right, I pressed it onto the back of the new bolt, and locked the two pieces together in line using the lathe jaws and tail stock. This ensured that as the welds began to cool, the pieces wouldn't warp out of alignment.


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Rotated to see through the hammer slot


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Next I drilled out the center of this big beefy washer I found in the washer bucket.


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Then I took some pipe from a previous attempt at parts match up, and turned the end to slide inside the back of the extension, and sandwich the washer. Put it back in the lathe, cranked in on everything with the tailstock again, and welded the rest up. My welds are horrible looking, but given that all I have access to is this old MIG, and have little to no real experience trying to weld more than a dot, well... atleast the welds are holding now instead of popping loose.


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I ended up adding more welds on each side of the washer to provide more support and retention. After everything had cooled enough, I spun the whole assembly, trued up the extensions, and reduced the washer to fit in the tube just as the the bands on the bolt to add extra alignment and an impact surface. After reexamining my parts today, I realized my statement in yesterdays post is false: The bolt does Not contact the recoil spring cap, and Does hit with the back of the spring guide. If you take your original bolt, spring, and spring cap, and compress them down as though they were inside the tube, there is about a 1/8" gap between the spring cap bell, and the back of the bolt when it's fully recoiled. However, my bolt was trimmed after realizing this, and so mine WILL contact at that point. I don't think it will be an issue however, except for possibly having to trim a few coils off the spring so that it doesn't overcompress and get mangled. Here's the finished bolt with extension; well, I still need to make the cocking knob hole, add the extractor, and mill off the front of the feed lips, but most of the work it done.


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The dyekem was to try and figure out where the bolt might be binding in the tube. Turned out to be rubbing on the side of the ejector claw. Alittle filing from the front cleared that right up. Speaking of cocking knobs, here's the finished top of the one from yesterday. (right side)

The last thing I started working on today was the hole in the bolt for the cocking knob. The OD of the shaft is exactly 0.5000, which is why I didn't even touch it with a file. If I drill a 0.5000 hole, and then sand the OD down until it just fits, it should have No wobble to it when installed. I could even chuck the handle in a drill, add some lapping compound, and spin the knob into the slot until it's a perfect fit. Except I don't have THAT much time. Anyway, the bolt band has been scribed where the cocking slot is, and the center of the band located to start drilling. (I will have to cut the cocking slot alittle further forward, but big deal, it's easier than having a hole that's half way off the rear bolt band).


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Next I broke out the 1/2" drill bit and started the hole. (I remembered to take the pic while changing to the end mill, so I stuck it back in for a quick shot, that's why it's already cut)


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Closer view


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Time to bottom the hole out flat. I went through about 8 different style end mills until I found one that was marked 1/2" and was actually 0.4995 across the blade ends... I'm going to assume that the 1/2 mark was referring to the tool shaft size...


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Didn't get any more pics because I lost track of time, and had to change and leave in a hurry to get to work on time. Well, the hole somehow ended up tapered, so I had to spin the bottom shaft of the knob with a file to get it to a slight taper that fit. The cutter was a 4 flute, and so left a nub at the bottom of the hole. So, instead of finding a 2 or 3 flute endmill to cut it out, it was easier to center drill the bottom of the cocking knob to just fit around it. May not be able to get back to work on this until the beginning of next week, so for MY bennefit, I'll add what I have left to do: Extend cocking slot in receiver Add Jhook to cocking slot. It may not be functional, but it can still look like an original STEN Mk II Cut feed lips off bolt face Make new modified extractor Cut slot in bolt for extractor Drill hole for Extractor pivot pin Trim stock keyhole plate for ease of fit in rear of trigger housing Figure out WTF I'm going to do for the front sight Function test, and do final tweaking Bead blast everything and park/paint ...almost there

Semper Fi

Posted By: elmacgyver0 Date Posted: November 12 2009 at 7:52am That is some damn fine work!

Posted By: Dragon2Zero Date Posted: November 16 2009 at 6:27pm


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Lookin' good, man. Great progress That'll never work.

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: November 17 2009 at 12:26am looks great blurr

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 11:28am Looks like I'm getting close to done with fabrication. I decided to finish up the cocking slot in the tube. Had to take alittle more off of the front since my handle hole ended up alittle further forward. I also discovered that my cocking knob hole and my slot were not perfectly aligned, so I was going to have to make the slot alittle wider to compensate, and maybe skinny up the part of the knob that ran in the slot.

Since I was going to toolup for that, I decided to get the Jhook done as well. It wasn't really going to be functional, but it Would provide a spot for the kocking knob to be installed, And it would add to the historic appearance. According to this template, my jhook will be back further by about 3/4 inch since my bolt cannot rotate (due to the blocking bar) any further forward of this spot.


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Getting ready to make the cut


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and Making the cuts


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Now that THAT was out of the way, I could move on to the extractor. On the original bolt, the extractor grove rides down almost to the center of the bolt. I have a firing pin channel there, so I need to make my extractor with a higher pivot point, but not too much. First, I need some good spring steel to make the extractor. This old broken tip of a UPS truck leaf spring that was annealed in a wood stove for a whole weekend should work just fine.


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Once we clean it up alittle...


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Not the best way, but the easiest for me, and I won't need to whole block at this time. Make some passes, and then run it on the belt sander once I know the sides are square.


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Fastforward to this dyekem'd piece of steel with my extractor shape scribed into it.


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And fastforward again to the cut piece compared to the original


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Not too bad for finishing the shape with files, especially for me, I Always end up with cocked surfaces. Moving right along with that momentum, I located and began to drill my extractor pin hole. I decided it would be easier before I cut the slot for it than after.


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with the hole center drilled, I'm going to keep drilling with a larger bit down to about 1/4" from where the extractor slot wall will be, just to try and keep the hole as straight as possible


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And ten finish it up with the propper sized bit. It took about 20 minutes to drill the hole, since I backed the bit out about every 3 seconds of drilling to clear the chips and add some oil. I was NOT going to break this bit... especially since it was the only size 36 bit in the shop...


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The hole isn't perfectly straight, as viewed from the top or the front, but it's close enough, and since I'm using a rollpin as the pivot pin, the extractor will need a slightly oversized hole anyway just to pivot, so that will probably not be a big issue.


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now to cut the extractor slot. I was using a brand new cutter that replaced the last one I broke, so I decided a few passes would be a good idea instead of trying to do the whole cut at once so I didn't burn up the tool. Lined up

first pass


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Now, for some reason, the camera went crazy and took the next shot's in 'sephia'... it's back to normal now, dunno what caused it. Anywayz, bottoming cut.


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Since I was trying to keep the same outward appearance, I decided to square off the back of the extractor slot cut instead of leaving it rounded like the side of the cutter, so I clamped it at an angle, and finished the back of the slot like so.


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That's all for now. I was putting everything together, after it was done, and while tapping the firing pin retaining pin in place, the bolt slipped out of my hands, and the extension welded on the back popped off. Probably a good thing to remind me how much I suck at welding. Next time I'll have to make some practice passes, and then once everything is realigned, burn a bead all around the extension.

Semper Fi

Posted By: dcorb Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 4:57pm Now I need to build a Sten Good thing Centerfire has the kits on sale, just ordered one

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 26 2009 at 1:25am Save yourself alot of hassle, and just use the original bolt. I could have been done with this thing already if I had done that, but what I've learned sofar has been more than worth it in the long run. The only other thing I would recommend, if you decide to go the AR FCG route, is to get the hammer as far forward as possible (even if that is beyond the front of the trigger housing) to keep as much room for recoil movement in the bolt as possible. And if you're going to make the trigger housing removeable, use pins that go in through the side, not the front. Semper Fi


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Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 12:41am Todays progress: Last time I was assembling the bolt (tapping in the firing pin retaining pin) the rear extension popped off, my welds hadn't held. So my first priority was to clean the two parts up, and then reweld. It appeared that the welds hadn't penetrated enough, probably because the pieces were cold from sitting in the shop. The old man reccommended preheating the pieces, and then welding. I looked up in a copy of an old 'welding engineer data sheets' book what the temp should be for 4130, and what the color corresponding to that heat should be on another chart 600 800*f , which would be around "steel gray" after the blue shades have passed, but before the lowest visible red. Set up in the lathe and braced for welding

Preheated and ready for welding


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After the weld. The pic is blurry because of the exposure time in low light, but it's enough to see the red glow after welding everything around. I decided to weld it like torquing on a tire, do one spot, than rotate 2/5 and do another spot. Once the spots were on, I filled in between them, rotating the same way.


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I let it sit and cool, and worked on some final fitting of small parts like the FCG. Forgot to take pics until I was about done for the day. Anyway, I decided to spin down the exstension and cut out a few hidden spots on the bolt body to get the weight back down to close to the original; I'd say I got pretty close. original bolt


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new bolt


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Here's a shot of the final seembly, ready for testing.

Looks much better with the aluminum dummy barrel installed

Initial function test are ok. It feeds fine by hand, the faster I cycle the bolt the better. Extracts and ejects flawlessly. However, I keep http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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getting light primer strikes, yet every once in a while I'll get a nice solid hit, and it doesn't appear that the hammer isn't making full contact. The forward movement of the firing pin seems fine, unless it's somehow binding... not quite sure what the problem could be unless the barrel is chambered too deep for the bolt pocket. I'll have to mess around with it more at some other time. I'm not going to even think about sandblasting and finishing until I've got it working atleast 99%.

Semper Fi

Posted By: Dragon2Zero Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 10:42am WOW after seeing these most recent pics, all I can say is...that thing looks simply outstanding...and now I want one, too! ...damn you... Looking really good, man...really good. How much does it weigh? How does it handle with that longer barrel?

That'll never work.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 10:51am Don't have access to it at the moment, it's in the gun closet at the apt right now, and I'm over at the house to help my father put new doors in. It's heavier than I thought it would be though. The long barrel doesn't seem that wierd to handle because I'm used to long guns probably... the corps always made sure I had a rifle, no need for a subgun I guess. Hopefully I can figure out the firing pin problem and get some reliable function. At this point, my satisfaction with it is about 3 out of 5, but I'm sure once it works 100% and has been blasted and parkerized, that will go up.

Semper Fi

Posted By: Inabadhood Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 9:18am That's some EXCELLENT WORK!!! I've seen some nice STEN builds in the past, but I have to say that I REALLY like this one the best! Great use of alternative materials to come up with your own means of solving a variety of problems! Also, a bit thumbsup for using scrap metals as well!!!

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 04 2009 at 12:51am I was told by 'the old man' and his son (who is old enough to be my father himself) that they were very impressed with my work for having no training in a trade school or apprenticeship of any kind, and the project was very ambitious for someone who had no real experience working with a mill or lathe before. When he asked me "where'd you learn how to do all this stuff anyway" he was surprised when I told him "I learned it from watching you (for the past 8 years)". The more I think about it, I did learn alot just from reading through all the threads on here as well, especially the photos. I'm a handson and visual learner, without being able to translate the text I read into an image in my head, I'm lost, and I've always been very mechanically inclined... and I'm proud to have provided you with an entertaining build to follow It aint over yet though, no sand blasting, polishing, or parkerizing for me until this thing runs 99100%!

.

Saturday I will be back at it, and hopefully I'll remember to take lots of pics Semper Fi


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Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 05 2009 at 11:56pm I have no luck with my home made firing pins sofar. After trying to reshape certain areas that cracked and had to be rewelded, the thing was so warped that when the drill bit I was using for the front of the pin snapped where it was welded in, I threw my hands in the air and decided to just start over AGAIN. but first I needed a break, so I decided to make a split wrench to get the spring cap off easier. I selected a nice thick piece of sheet metal from the scrap bin.

Then measured and scribed onto it for the cuts.


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I found an endmill that was just too big to fit through the holw in the back of the spring cap, and used that to make the cut once the rectangle had been cut off of the rest of the scrap. Here it is with just enough clearance to not touch the button that protrudes.


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Sometimes a successful project, nomatter how small, helps you refocus. I couldn't find any more scrap drill bits with a long enough solid shank that were the right size for the Firing pin tip, so I decided to try machining one out of the O1 drill rod I still had. I knew I was going to have to make light cuts and could only do about 1/2" at a time or it would flex to much. Here's the FP tip shaped.


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The first section turned to the propper OD


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And the next couple sections and cuts


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Success, for the moment. Most of the day was spent getting to this point, and them making another sleeve for the back end. Maybe when this one is done, it'll hit the primers hard every time, and my troubleshooting problems will be done... but probably not with my luck.

Semper Fi

Posted By: dcorb Date Posted: December 06 2009 at 8:59am I am impressed on the Lathe work with the firing pin. Every time I tried to turn something small the results were not something I liked to talk about.

Posted By: tommerr Date Posted: December 06 2009 at 10:16am Nice bit of work. All tool steels weld poorly even O1. Drills are M2 and you must not weld them even when they are soft. Even steels like 4340 are not recomended for welding because of the nickel. When I make firing pins for the Suomi and the M56, I use O1 for the body of the pin and then Loctite a piece of drill blank in place for the actual pin. greg was welding tool steel to make his M56 strikers and they always failed at the weld. When I heat treat O1, I heat it red hot and quench the part in oil. ASAP, I stress relief the part at 400F for one hour AT temperature. It takes a while for the part to heat up so add an extra 1/2 hour. I have never had a firing pin fail and I guarantee them all. Tommerr


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Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 06 2009 at 8:17pm Good info Tom, thanks! If the O1 does fail, I'll try that method. I need to pickup an old toaster oven that still works from the goodwill or something for stress relieving... been thinking about trying to build a small electric oven/forge for heat treating, but it might be easier to rebuild a used one that someone is selling. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I finished the firing pin today, and it works much better than the first one as far as fit and smoothness of funtion. I'll have to take pics of that and other things when I have time. Still having the light primer strike issue. The hammer spring feels just as strong as the one in my AR lower... but when I take the bolt, put a shell w/ primer on the end, place that on the workbench, put a punch on the end of the firing pin and drop a hammer on it from only a few inches up, it strikes perfectly and goes off. So either the hammer spring is too weak, or the hammer is somehow stopped short of the full travel needed.

Semper Fi

Posted By: tommerr Date Posted: December 06 2009 at 8:46pm Use your kitchen oven for stress relieving the pin. Preheat it to 425F and have it hot and ready to go. After quenching, degrease the pin and pop it into the oven. Oil in the oven will stink which may cause an argument to ensue. Tommerr

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 06 2009 at 8:54pm Will do. I'll make sure to do it when to roommates aren't home. I just tested the hammer spring using the same test as before with the casing and bolt on the workbench, but held the trigger housing in position where it would be if these parts were in the rest of the rifle. it took a dozen attempts to get the hammer to hit square and solid the way I was holding everything, and still no ignition, so I switched back to the punch and hammer and SNAP! it went off. Going to order and extra power hammer spring from wolf. If that doesn't work, I may need to wind my own (or try making one out of an old rat trap?) Semper Fi

Posted By: 041x Date Posted: December 06 2009 at 9:40pm Very nice, I like the pics.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 06 2009 at 11:23pm New Hammer spring on the way... hopefully it will do the trick, otherwise I have a bigger problem. Hopefully I won't have to cut the original recoil spring down, but it is pretty tight since it's most of the way to full compression already due to the bolt extension. If I were to do this over again, I would try to find a way to use an offset firing pin that would allow full length use of the recoil spring. The only problem I can forsee is the AR15 FCG needing to be moved back further than I placed it since it would be lower in the trigger housing. Something like this:


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Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 07 2009 at 10:40am Realised a problem with the above drawing... there would likely not be enough contact to reset the hammer when the bolt cycles. a different FCG may work though, maybe even one from a pistol.

Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 13 2009 at 10:56pm Well, I will either have to make a new spring, or modify the springs from a rat trap to get it to work reliably. I think my firing pin is heavier that trickricks, and my hammer is not hitting with the very top, which means there's not as much force from momentum at that point. These are just guesses, but everything else checks out fine. Hammer has plenty of space to move, as does the firing pin, and there's no binding anywhere... I'm only working security 1 day this week, so I will have time during the day the rest of the week to figure it out. Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: December 13 2009 at 11:48pm good luck blurr. mine was fine, and still is, except for my fcg pin holes being off. is your return spring for the fp to strong, maybe?

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: December 13 2009 at 11:54pm the other thing i had problems w/ initially was that fp was binding in hole of bolt. could that be happening? i looked for spring set up for fp in your posts and didn't see it. i had to drill from both ends and my holes were off just a bit, but i didn't have your tooling, could that be what's up?

Posted By: gundoctor Date Posted: December 13 2009 at 11:57pm blurrd, great work. Have you considered using a smaller recoilspring/rod like the uzi, AR180, Mac, etc etc. There should be plenty of room in the sten bolt to do this.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 14 2009 at 11:26pm I cut a few coils off my FP spring, just incase it was too strong, and it's now VERY light compared to almost every other FP spring I've encountered. The FP hole is drilled center and true. For the few times that it miraculously DID set the rounds off, it functioned perfectly, extracted, ejected, cocked, and loaded. I took a spent casing, popped out the primer, and melted birthday candle wax into the pocket to see exactly how far forward my FP was capable of going. It went atleast 2mm into the wax. I did a few more tests using the punch on the FP with the bolt standing up method, and went from whacking the FP, to barely tapping it. In all cases, the FP did not penetrate the primer, and in all but the lightest strikes, it left a healthy looking dimple in the primer. In the one or two that did go off from the hammer, the dimple was still very weak. The hammer spring is not being squished inside the trigger housing, and there's no binding happening in that area. Next time I'm at the shop, if I don't get it to work, I'll atleast take a bunch of pics for you guys. And if I do get it to work, I'll still take pics Gundoc: I had considered that, and if I were to do a custom build, I would most likely go that route. I really like the way the PPs43 uses the recoil spring to the side, and the rod is also the ejector, quite clever. For this build, being my first that is not just a pure rebuild (funny how a simple select fire rebuild of the original design would have been So Much easier) I wanted to try to stick to as many of the original parts designs as possible (Without cutting to many of them up).


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Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: December 20 2009 at 8:41pm Been going in circels since the last update. When I initially tried the XP hammer spring, it worked, but during later tests, the strike was still too light. Long story short, the whole time, my problem has apparently been two fold. The FP was too short sticking out the back, and my hammer spring was getting caught on the sides of the cut out in the receiver tube. I decided to try and trim the FP in non critical areas so that it would be lighter, but ended up destroying it. So, I went with Tommers method. I couldn't find any 7/64 drill bits that were very long (apparently that was the size of my FP hole), but I was able to find 1/8" bits 10" long with only about 2" of the front end cut for drilling. I cut off the front end, leaving about 3/4" of the shank so that it could still be a usefull bit. Used that bit to drill out the FP hole in the front of my bolt, and then used the same bit to drill the end of the drill rod section to be the rest of the FP. Blah Blah Blah, here's a bunch of pics. I used an eclip to act as a shelf for the retaining pin to stop against. But, now I need to find a longer spring.

Because I used a 1/8" FP, the hole in the bolt face was too big, which allowed the primer to bubble into it when it fired. So, I used a 1/4" end mill to make a cavity, and spun a 3/16" thick 'washer' plug to fit the cavity, pressed it in, and cleaned it up. It has a 3/32" hole in it, and the firing pin tip was matched to fit smoothly through it.

Here's the brass showing different stages of testing. Left to right, light strikes, good strike, but primer backing into FP hole, current good strikes.


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On a side tangent. I had ordered an inertial buttler pulling hammer, but it still hasn't arrived, so I made a plate to hold the rim, and used vice grips to grab the bullet and pull it out the top. It mangled the bullet, but I couldn't wait for the thing to arrive. Sacrifices must be made for R&D. In any case, a letter size R and W drills are the perfect size for the inside rim diameter and the case diameter. I just drilled the smaller hole, then the larger one to the right depth, cut out one side for the shell to slip in, and touched up the taper with the dremmel.

This is the birthday candle melted into the primer pocket I used to see if the firing pin had enough travel at all, or if the hammer spring was just too weak. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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This is the FP sticking out the back of the bolt. I added the ramped area you see because the hammer was not resetting since it wasn't being pushed back down enough. The notch was cut into it to make it easier to line up when reinstalling it so the retaining pin groove would be in the right spot.

However, that ramp needs to be longer to move the hammer back as soon as the gun fires, because at the moment it's keeping the FP sticking out the front for half of the bolt travel as illustrated in these next pics.


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Yes, the FP sticks out about 1/4". I could shorten it, and probably will, but I don't want to take off toomuch and have to start stacking things behind the drill shank in the pocket. Whatever, I'll deal with that later.


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At this point, the hammer finally starts to be reset and nolonger make contact with the FP, and it starts to reset


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In any case, the gun fired 7 rounds in a row with no problems. Here's the trigger housing and guts cleaned up and ready for sand blasting.

Here they are mocked up showing how they line up.


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This is the trigger overtravel stop I added, a filed blob of weld.

I may not have time to do more until after new years, but I'll keep everyone up to date. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: December 20 2009 at 11:48pm good figgerin out blurr.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 07 2010 at 12:54am Attention Tommerr: does it matter what kind (what weight) oil I use for quenching the FP body? is 10w40 fine? Semper Fi

Posted By: tommerr Date Posted: January 07 2010 at 10:24pm The oil quench oil does effect the resulting hardness. Really heavy thick oil produces lower hardness. Light oil results in higher hardness. It is a function of heat disapaition. A water quench will dramatically decrease the temperature drop time and increace the hardness. A really thick oil will slow things down a lot. I use automatic transmission oil. It is light, cheap and it works wondeful. Tommerr

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 12:05am Thank you sir. I'll give it a shot soon and try to take pics (or have someone else since time may be a factor with quenching). How hard would you guess the extractor should be? I"m not sure what temperature to temper it at after hardening it. I am going to make the assumption that it is plain high carbon steel since it came from a large truck leaf spring. I would think they wouldn't bother with a whole lot of alloying since it's a part that will rust, break, wear out, and be replaced quite a few times during the life of the vehicle. Semper Fi

Posted By: tommerr Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 3:46am I would be pleased to do hardness checks for you. Most new springs are 6150 steel. I could run a chemistry check for you to verify what steel you have. That would require a chunk of steel for some destructive tests. At that point, a piece of steel, that you harden the same as your proposed spring, would tell the rest of the story. Tommerr

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 08 2010 at 7:10am I have plenty of it. I would greatly appreciate it as I could use this stuff for making alot of small parts. PM me with an address, and I'll send out a chunk or two, and include those bolts and springs we were talking about not long ago. Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 13 2010 at 12:41am Well, the insert washer thing I put into the bolt face kept working itself loose, so I decided to silver solder it in place. Here's the washer not fully seated


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Here it is next to the pocket

I acquired some asbestos tape and wrapped it around the bolt head, held in place with some safety wire. The hope was that it would make it easier to heat the bolt face hot enough to get the silver solder to flow without using up all the O2 in my MAPP torch. I wore a breather mask when doing this, yes. Afterwards, the burned tape was placed into a ziplock bag, taped up, and tossed into the hazardous waste bin at work.


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This crappy pic shows the bolt after the solder had finally flowed into and around the insert. I had to have a friend use my propane torch while I used a MAPP torch to get it hot enough, but it finally worked. The crusty mess on there is from the flux, but it all cleaned up with the wire wheel.

I don't have more pics at the moment, but I still need to redrill the FP hole which the solder also flowed into. Hopefully I can get all this little stuff done soon, but I'm also fighting off a cold, so my next opportunity to work may be filled with sleeping all day Semper Fi


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Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 10:39pm Went back to the shop today to finish the bolt face off. I drilled the FP hole, and then went to clean up the back of the hole with a long 1/8" drill. It was hard to tell when it started to cut, because it went straight through the insert I soldered in . So, I drilled the front out about 1/4", and tapped it for a 1/4 x28 NF bolt. Found a small grade 6 bolt, cleaned it up, torqued it into the bolt face, and lopped the shaft off. Then I brought it down flush with the rest of the face with a 2 flute endmill. Redrilled the FP tip hole in the face, and redrilled the same hole the screwed me earlier, this time being carefull not to go too far. Once I was done, I said to myself "that was much easier than all that soldering BS, hell that would have saved my original bolt... WHY THE HELL DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS BEFORE!?". Live and learn I guess. In anycase, the rest of the day was spent sandblasting all the parts in preparation for parkerizing, which I hope to do tomorrow. Here's the blasted parts:

The bolt was done with glass beads on the front, and the extension was done with 20/40 grit. The rest of the parts, and the two mag bodies on the right, inside, were blasted with 40/80 grit. I ran out after those two mags, and had to switch over to the 20/40 for the rest of the magazines, the barrel, and the floorplates. They were much coarser than I liked, so I cleaned them all up on the brass wire wheel. I also cleaned up the threads on the barrel nut/ handguard, and the rings and face of the bolt. It will be interresting to see how they turn out tomorrow. Here's what I've assembled for the task:


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The stainless steel pan is a leftover from cafeteria supplies. The lowly 2 pints of zinc park solution are all I could afford when I bought them, it'll take a while to do small batches, and I'll most likely have to set the pan on a tilt to get the solution deep enough for some parts, but it should be enough. Papertowels for cleaning the parts with lacquer thinner, and carb cleaner for getting into those tiny areas where I can't reach with a qtip. Gloves to keep finger prints and dirt off the parts during and after cleaning. The filter and funnel are for when I am done, so I can filter the crap off the top of the leftover solution, and strain it while I pour it into the old windshield washer fluid jug for storage. The kitty at the top right is not necessary for parkerizing Some things not pictured that I will also be using: Stainless steel hemostat forceps for handling small parts, and stainless wire to suspend parts. I don't have a fancy burner system, so I'll be doing this on the propane grill out on the porch. I also don't currently have a thermometer, so if I don't pick one up before I start, I'll just keep the solution steamy, but not boiling, which is about the right temperature. http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7699 &PN=1" rel = "nofollow Here's Gary's tutorial. Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 17 2010 at 3:36pm Got all set up this morning, the grill is smaller than I remember, but the stainless pan just fit. I used a piece of an old steel shelf that I cleaned off as a lid to heat it up and keep some moisture in.


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However, 4 hours later, this little grill could not heat the soultion past... whatever temperature 'P' is, even after I removed the grilling shelf and moved the stainless pan down directly on the burner shield

So, I'll have to go to the shop tomorrow and use the big one that we've used in the past. I had already put some steel wool in the mix, and it slowly ate most of it after the 4 hours. I filtered the park and poured it into the gallon jug and the two little pint bottles. Atleast it's premixed and kicked for tomorrow. Semper Fi


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Posted By: midmichigun Date Posted: January 17 2010 at 9:40pm Blurr, Once again... good stuff from YOU! I am hoping it turns out for you, and look forward to your results. I Have a sten I need to finish... so your information is valued!

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 20 2010 at 4:14pm Second attempt. This larger grill will do the job.

The pan is just large enough to be able to close the grill lid with it sitting perfectly in the center. Here we’re heating up. We also have a thermometer with a long wire leading to the sensor, which is convenient, especially when the lid is shut to bring the temperature back up.


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Once it hit about 195*, I opened the lid and dropped the first batch of parts in. I used a metal block about 1.5” tall to put under the far end of the pan to get the depth I needed. It helps to tap the pan, or agitate it, after you drop the parts in to dislodge any air bubbles. After about 10 minutes I turned all the parts over with the stainless forceps to make sure they had complete coverage.


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Once the parts were thoroughly treated after about 20 minutes, I picked the pieces out and dropped them into a 5 gallon bucket full of clean water and let them sit, kicking the side of the bucket to move the water around alittle.


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Here’s the second batch of parts. Same process, although I ended up flipping the floor plates about every 45 minutes to make sure.


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Parts were dropped into the bucket of rinse water when done, just like the first batch. At this point, the water was starting to turn alittle cloudy, so I dumped it out, and refilled it with fresh water. I guess I forgot to take pics of doing the receiver and the barrel, but it’s the same process. I saved the magazine bodies for last, because even though I had degreased the crap out of them and soaked them in a hot simplegreen solution, I thought there might be some dirty gunky cosmoline still hiding under the top laminated layers. Here they are being stewed:


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and here’s some of the grease that started to seep out. This is just one dot, but there were quite a few floating around by the time all the mag bodies were done.


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I followed the same rinse procedure, water was changed about 3 more times. at this point, the parts were laid out on a big old towel to dry while I went through with the air hose and blew them off, inside and out. I was running out of time before I had to leave for work, so in the hurry I forgot to take pics. Once the parts were dry, I soaked them with WD40, wrapped them in a paper towel, and threw them back into the bucket (which I had cleaned and dried out). They will probably sit there until later this week when I’ll actually have time to mess with them. I will also try to get some shots of the welds that didn’t come out the same color as the rest of the metal. It seems the harder the steel is, the lighter the finish, probably because it takes longer to etch it. Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 26 2010 at 10:25am I've been a bit busy lately, but finally MADE time to take some pics of the parked parts last night. Here's the lot:


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Closer view of the middle:

Here's the plate I welded onto the nose of the trigger housing, which came out a very light gray. Reminds me of the FCG parts from my Tantal kit. For whatever reason, the weld spots in this area are Darker


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Where as the other weld spots came out lighter on the rest of the tube:

And here's the front sight I made based on pics I found on the web. I used and endmill to cut a slot across the tube, and then used a triangular file to make a slight dovetail shape to it. Then I filed the base of the front sight to match. It's a very tight fit, which is good. Once I get it set in line to shoot straight, I will probably just center punch the tube in front and behind it to keep it in place.


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When I get to work at UPS tonight, my package from Brownells should be waiting for me containing http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1145/Product/TEFLON_ MOLY_OVEN_CURE__GUN_FINISH" rel = "nofollow this paint, in Dark Park Gray. I'll have to reclean the parts with Lacquer thinner tomorrow, paint them, and bake them. Then finish packing for the weekend as I'll be taking her to one of the largest WWII reenactments here in the North East. Hopefully I'll come back with a flawless action report

Semper Fi

Posted By: gregg Date Posted: January 26 2010 at 4:40pm blurrededge wrote: [IMG]http:// However, 4 hours later, this little grill could not heat the soultion past... whatever temperature 'P' is, even after I removed the grilling shelf and moved the stainless pan down directly on the burner shield [IMG]smileys/smiley19.gif" /> [IMG] http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y23/abn0rml/STEN/Tempfail.j pg" />

P Is for Pee warm.

Just thought you like to know?

Posted By: gregg Date Posted: January 26 2010 at 7:46pm Spots are small . and you dine a super job building and finishing. I have learned alot from your post. Thank You


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Posted By: bikergunnut Date Posted: January 26 2010 at 11:28pm


Make sure you find out if you need a dedicated, i.e. not kitchen, oven to cure the teflon paint. Teflon emits poison during curing that will remain in the oven

.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 27 2010 at 12:42am gregg: I almost laughed out loud, literally, about the "P" temp. I'm glad you found it educational, if not mildly entertaining. I learned alot during the process too, and I figured I can't be the only one, that's why I try to be as detailed as possible with lots of pics. That 'aint always easy though. Biker: I'll be using the tiny grill on the porch, as I just got yelled at oven after hardening them.

for stress relieving my firing pin and extractor claw in the kitchen

All the parts have been recleansed after the initial oiling; but as I suspected would be the case, the WD40 doesn't last very long since it's so thin, and there wasn't much of anything left on the parts. They're all on little wire hangers ready for me to get up early tomorrow, fire up the grill, and paint them. I decided to do only 6 of the magazine bodies and floorplates, the other 3 I'll leave parked gray (the best looking 3 of the bunch), and I still have one that had a very good coat of the original finish on it, so I left it as it was. The bolt, which will not be painted, is currently soaking in a generous bath of some heavy gun oil. The can of paint is very small, but I guess it will be enough for one medium coat on everything. I'll post a pic next to a Real can of spray paint tomorrow. Now, it's off to bed.

Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 8:27pm I'll pick up where I left off. Here's the can of paint next to a 'normal' one.


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Perdy skimpy, expecially for the price. If anyone ever gets this paint, don't paint over parkerizing or anything, it apparently needs to adhere to bare metal

Now, about blowing up my gun at the reenactment this weekend. I'll start with this... no one was hurt, physically. Here is how a normal 9mm blank looks after being fired.


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This is what the shrapnel that fell out of the ejection port looked like when the barrel was clogged.


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and here's what broke: The first thing I noticed was the stock retaining lip on the back of the trigger housing was... missing


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Next thing I noticed after checking the internals was the dimples were sheared off of the retainer cap on both sides.


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Then I saw that the tabs that hold the retainer in were bent out (once I took the whole thing down)


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and finally, after all that, I noticed the tip of the extractor claw had cracked off. That was probably due in part to me making the piece too hard:


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So, there we have it. I will need to weld a plate back onto the back of the trigger housing. Bend the tabs back to shape. Recreate the bumps on the retainer, and make a new extractor that isn't quite so hard. I suppose it could be worse, I could be missing parts of my anatomy

Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 10:11pm did you have the stock in place? that is a lot of damage from a blank.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 10:17pm Yep. Gun was fully assembled and had thus far fired about 85 rounds flawlesly (I was on the 4th magazine, loaded them to 25 each). I took a dive into the frozen dirt when I was 'killed', and one of my Kammeraden ran over, grabbed the gun, and opened fire, not realizing that the barrel was compacted with frozen dirt. It must have put ALL the force of these hot blanks into the recoil

Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 10:20pm your bolt looks awfully long, could it have caused the damage? did you have the rear of the lower attached w/ screws where the receiver goes through? did you have a buffer in there at the spring cap? i put bolts through my retainer from the inside and welded them in. my o/a bolt length is 7.5 and i dont have the protrusion on the rear of the bolt after the washer to hold spring.


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Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 10:30pm


From my bolt face to the back of the washer, is exactly 7.5 inches. I will probably add screws to lock the trigger housing to the receiver around the tube after I weld another crescent tab on the back. The live test rounds have fired just fine (about 3540 total) and the parts that broke here showed no signs of stress at all. That was all done before I parkerized it. Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 10:33pm it looks like you bolt may have bottomed out before your spring was fully compressed. how many coils did you remove on your spring? oh nevermind i did not realize the barrel was clogged.

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: January 31 2010 at 10:48pm i'm glad no one got hurt.

Posted By: weaponeer Date Posted: February 01 2010 at 6:35pm It's good to see that the Tube design can withstand that kind of force and still keep the shooter safe.. retaining all your body parts is a plus no matter what the damage to the kit is. when I first read about the damage, the theme song from the six million dollar man was running though my head.. Get your Weaponeer Wear and Pro Second Amendment TShirts and Mugs here http://bit.ly/sfesDw

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 9:10am Got to the shop and fixed everything yesterday. Here's the washer I found that will become the new rim for the back of the trigger housing.


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Gotta clean up that crackly break first though.


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Belt sander did the trick!


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I put a bevel on the washer and the back of the housing for a better weld penetration.


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Clamped together and ready to become one.


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I tacked it at the corners, and the top to hold the pieces together, and removed the clamps so I could attempt to make one bead connecting the tacks.


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Here it is all welded up.


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Cleaned it up on the grinder and belt sander, and she's starting to look good


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Now I need to cut off all the extra material and make her look like she used to. I used a hacksaw to get rid of the bottom half


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Cleaned up the cut with a file, and checked it with the stock...The Stock Fits! This washer is pretty beefy compared to the original stamped part.


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Well, after looking in the other end I could see it hadn't seated all the way


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A few taps on the workbench took care of that


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Now to open up the inside rim so that the bolt can be inserted. I used the spring retainer cup to scribe a line on the outside to eyeball where I need to get it.


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Then I used the dremel cutoff wheel to hack my way down to more manageable material removal. Yeesh, that's rough...


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I wanted to leave as much of the rim as possible for support, but didn't want to have to trim and check for an hour until it was right... so I got that little piece of receiver tube I had from earlier in the build, and stuck it in the front. That gave me a perfect guide of where the receiver should line up.


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then I can attack the remaining metal and trim it down with a round file until it's a perfect contour. I gave it a once over with a grinding wheel on the dremmel to smooth out the inside diameter, checked the fit, and called it done.


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I was making some really good progress / time, so I must have been getting excited, which means I was going to forget to check something. Here's the spring retainer cap ready for welding. I need to replicate the 'ears' that were sheared off.


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The voltage ( think that's what it is) dial is what I forgot to check, so I ended up burning right through, and made more work for myself that I'll need to clean up.


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I used the same grinding wheel on the dremmel to clean up the inside of the cap, until was smooth again and fit over the spring cup without binding.


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Then I trimmed down and shaped the nubs on the outside until they lined up with the J hook cuts in the receiver, and everything went together smoothly. Not as clean as I'd like, but no body will see this part when it's all assembled.


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Now to make a new extractor... again Started with the same leaf spring, and scribed my shape


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Hacked it out with the hacksaw to rough shape


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And then filed to fit. I'm realizing that although the file is alittle more labor intensive, with the propper files (right shapes and sizes, rough and finish) the work goes alot faster than sitting there watching my dremmel grinding wheels wear away, and the work is more satisfying. It's almost therapeutic


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I wanted to leave alittle extra on the claw for strength, but when I check the fit against an actual rim, I realized that the original shape was all I could get away with


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After I had it shaped, I dropped it into the groove in the bolt, held it firmly in position with some origami of the fingers, and used a small center punch to mark where the pin hole should be. Then I enlarged the punch mark, drilled the hole, and checked the fit. Everyting seemed to line up. Here it is with the broken one. I didn't have time to function check it, so hopefully that will work just fine.


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That's all for now, next update should be refinishing the new parts. Semper Fi

Posted By: weaponeer Date Posted: February 10 2010 at 6:47pm Fantastic update, photos and explanation. Get your Weaponeer Wear and Pro Second Amendment TShirts and Mugs here http://bit.ly/sfesDw

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: February 13 2010 at 1:54am New extractor is not working out... the rounds barely fall out of the ejection port when it fires. I also noticed that the rim recess is much bigger than it should be... probably from touchup work when the feed lips were cut off. I'm going to the shop tomorrow to see if I can rectify the issue, which involves revisiting my bolt face... again. I also need to repair the Mk IV loading tool I got in the mail today... Pictures might not be up until monday due to some Saint

and the fact that I have a girlfriend

Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: February 14 2010 at 1:25am Here's my bolt face. The red cicrle represents the outside diameter of the rim... too much extra room IMO. So, I'm going to fix that. For http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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those that have read all the posts to this build, this will be the 6th (?) time I will be doing work in this area.

The split pipe on the left is the small piece of receiver tube I have been using for alignment and clearance etc. I cut it with a hacksaw and filed the opening wider so that I have some extra support for the end of the bolt when I chuck it in the lathe. The 1/2" 20 fine thread Grade 8 bolt on the right will provide me with the new bolt surface.

Here's how that ring works. There is barely enough area to get 3 jaws of the chuck to contact. I can spread the load out with more contact http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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by using the split ring.


Getting ready to give the bolt a face lift by drilling it out with a 29/64" drill.


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Bad pic showing the cut, it's hard to guage the depth from this shot, and I didn't take multiple shots like I usually do...


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Threading the hole to match the bolt. The same method was used with a bottoming tap afterwards.

Closer shot.


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Here you can see where the threads stop because the standard tap bottomed out.


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And finished off by the bottoming tap.


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My Grade 8 STEN bolt Time to cut the head off.


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Head cut off, and the end being turned to match the profile of the bottoming tap for the back of the hole.


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Because I had to cut the head of the bolt off to turn the threaded shaft on it's center, I'll be using a big pipe wrench to torque the bolt into the bolt.


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Here it is after cutting off the excess shaft, and dressing the face to match. I'll be grinding a shallow groove on the side where the thread seam shows the most, and zapping it with the MIG to keep it from moving... forever.


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Here the welds have been turned to match the rest. I decided to also rebuild the feed lips while I was at it to see if that would help the cycle of operation. As you can see, I have alot of trimming to do to bring back the ejector slot, extractor slot, and the sides of the feed lips.


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drilling the firing pin hole. I went slow and steady, backing it out and cleaning the chips often, because the last thing I want to do is snap that little guy off in there.


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Cutting the recess for the round. I used a 3/8" endmill, and touched up the inside rim with a boring bar; but forgot to take pics... it's a boring process anyway


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Here it is after filing all the extra material back down. I don't care about the seam on the right side of the pic. It won't affect function, and I'm not going to fill it with weld because I still have an extractor to hand fit for flawless function.


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More to come later... Semper Fi

Posted By: weaponeer Date Posted: February 14 2010 at 9:51am great way to fit a bolt Get your Weaponeer Wear and Pro Second Amendment TShirts and Mugs here http://bit.ly/sfesDw

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: February 21 2010 at 6:29pm Finished my extractor today, and then refinished all the parts that needed it, so aside from the AR15 FCG parts, and the firing pin, everything is back to being straight parkerized. Flat black paint job to come soon. Here's my extractor compared to the standard STEN extractor. I left alittle more meat on my claw, and contoured it to the shape of the 9mm rim for alittle extra support. Factory on top, mine on bottom


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Here you can see how the factory 'straight claw' holds the rim compared to mine:


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It work good. Once it's painted I'll put up the finished pics with the WWII sling and ammo pouch. Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: February 28 2010 at 9:54pm Went to the Range yesterday to set the sights, and some problems were identified. The first problem, what that my front sight was WAY to short, causing the rounds to hit about 8" high as 25 yards. I decided that instead of making a new front sight, I would move the standard rear sight peep. I will need to weld the old peep hole closed, and drill a new one that is lower. To get an idea of how low, I adjusted my sight alignment until the rounds were hitting where they should. The front sight, when viewed through the rear peep, needs to be held between the 4:30 and 7:30 clock positions. I used a needle file to mark the approximate position for the new hole center. This will make it easier to find once the old hole is welded up. Second problem: the eclip will not work as a firing pin spring retainer. This is nolonger a problem because of the third problem: The firing pin shaft I made from drill rod snapped in the center... apparently it wasn't stress relieved enough. Fourth problem: The height of the hammer, when held by the hammer notch, needed more 'meat' added to it, as after the first shot, I was getting light primer strikes about half the time. I determined that the hammer, once released from the disconnector, had traveled too far forward by the time the hammer notch was reengaged, so that it's strike angle began at about 45*. I will have to take photo's of all this, which i'll do when I get back to the shop. The only photo I do have is just after getting set up.


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I keep running in circles with this thing. Eventually I'll get it right. Atleast the repairs I made previously are holding up great. No signs of stress on any of those after about 30 rounds of trying to get the sights figured out. Semper Fi

Posted By: gregg Date Posted: February 28 2010 at 11:39pm I keep running in circles with this thing. Eventually I'll get it right. WELL its great job of teaching for me and I bet lots of others.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: March 01 2010 at 12:25am With everything I've learned on this site, It's my pleasure to give back. And I'm sure at some point I'll look back on this, and be able to track my progress. Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: March 01 2010 at 12:48am keep pluggin away.


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Date Posted: May 02 2010 at 11:24pm


Been a while, but I think I finally have the bugs worked out. I successfully test fired the new firing pin set up, and all 16 rounds worked flawlessly. I don't have any pics as I was working within a short window, but I'll get them up next time I have a chance. I used Gundoctors method of firing pin retention that he used on his http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6756 &PN=1&TPN=1" rel = "nofollow CETME 45K (halfway down page) , which made all my other firing pin problems go away. Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: May 07 2010 at 9:17am Going to the range tomorrow morning with 200+ rounds to test the sights, test 10 original mags for feeding (20 rounds in each), and make sure all the bugs are worked out before I paint her and call this project Done. Still haven't made time to take pics, but when I strip her for cleaning, I'll make sure I do. Semper Fi

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: May 07 2010 at 1:25pm VIDEOS...WE WANT VIDEOS

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: May 07 2010 at 1:40pm I'll see what I can do. Maybe I will have the Girl test fire it to get more views

Semper Fi

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: May 08 2010 at 10:12pm Alright, fired 203 rounds through it today with ZERO failures to feed, fire, or eject. All mags worked flawlessly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbTfRSzIRRI" rel = "nofollow Here's a short clip featuring former Staff Sergeant Jessie vet, going through a mag the last few hours.

, 3 tour Iraq

. The quality isn't as good as it looked before the upload, but I've been messing with this video file and stuff for

Semper Fi

Posted By: weaponeer Date Posted: May 08 2010 at 10:19pm great work...... Get your Weaponeer Wear and Pro Second Amendment TShirts and Mugs here http://bit.ly/sfesDw

Posted By: trickyrick Date Posted: May 09 2010 at 9:29am that's a beauty....the gun looked good also. glad you got it worked out. thanks for taking the time to video and post for us. now you have to modify a suomi drum!

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: May 09 2010 at 7:39pm I was thinking of making the Sterling kit take the suomi drums and mags, vertical feed http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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If you notice in the video, she's using the hole in the grip to put her thumb through like a pistol grip... with no actual grip. The trigger pull is very heavy when fired conventionally, another thing I'll have to see if I can dress up with the needle files and some polishing. Here's the pics of the firing pin set up: I used a piece of 1/4" mild steel and rounded the edges to fit the profile of the slot cut by the 1/4" endmill. The chisel mark was a refference mark I made before I realized I had to trim the center so the hammer would hit it squarely.


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Bottom View


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When you depress the firing pin far enough, the block can slide up out of the slot.


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Here it's sitting on the step of the firing pin that keeps it from coming out through the hole in the center of the plate.


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The whole unit completely disassembled.

I still have alittle fitting to do to the FP... if it's inserted one way, it will bind, rotate it 90* and it's fine... maybe alittle lapping compound and a minute in the drill will help. Accuracy isn't terrible, but the stock is alittle wobbly, and the heavy trigger pull doesn't help. I'm sure alittle comfort would go a long way with this design, but it was originally made for function over form, at the cheapest price ever. I can't really justify using it at eastern front events though, so I think my PPs43 kit will be coming up in the near future... maybe with a 9mm barrel though, the blanks are cheaper. Semper Fi


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Posted By: gunguyr Date Posted: May 09 2010 at 9:34pm Well done..

Home of the 1 and only Wisconsin BUILD PARTY's.. BP #8 September 11, 12 2010 "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. but the U.S. ARMED FORCES don't have that problem." ...Ronald Reagan

Posted By: gundoctor Date Posted: May 09 2010 at 10:00pm I reread your thread. Great work. The more I look at the semisten design the more I think it is asking for a new bolt with a single small recoil spring setup like the ppsh, mac, etc. It just might be that the spring/recoil rod could be made to function as the ejector by placing on the left side of bolt in the ejector slot. The cocking handle could function as the firing pin retainer. This would be a pretty easy bolt to machine and a minimum of parts.

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: August 10 2010 at 9:45am Successfully got it to bump fire an entire mag this weekend... the poor guy to my right must have felt like http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc114/pervscan/1197811001 .gif This because he moved over to my other side after that . I'm sure there were explatives involved, but I couldn't hear much over the firing through the earmuffs. I will try to remember to get pics of it now that it's all painted... need to clean it after the weekend still anyway. Semper Fi

Posted By: cankurd21 Date Posted: February 18 2012 at 10:09am blurrededge wrote: Alright, finally got around to starting a build. I've got alot more done that I have photo's of, but I got so 'in the groove' while working that I forgot the keep taking shots with each step. Here's what I have sofar: Put my AR trigger group into my trigger housing. I made a little box to test my measurements before doing this just to make sure everything would line up. I'll post pics of that soon.


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I know the hammer hole is too close to the dust cover holes, those were welded closed and a dimple ground there so the dust cover would still fit. I didn't take the size of the holes into account when I decided where to mount them. Trigger before cutting the spring hook off to make the notch for the trigger bar:

After the cut:


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Now, time to make a new trigger bar since I don't want to cut up the old one and it should be easy enough to make. I'm doing alot of things that make more work for me on this, but I am learning ALOT from the experience, which is worth much more to me in the long run. This old rusty wrench in the scrap bin is about the right thickness and should be plenty strong. I cleaned it up on the belt sander so I could apply the dyechem.

Next I traced the bar, minus the 90* piece since it won't be needed.


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Then I cut it out with the reciprocating saw, and cleaned it up on the grinder and the belt sander.

That's all I have pics of right now, but I've already done most of the work on the tube, including the blocking bar (first thing I did), the mag well cuts, the front trunion cuts, which includs a blocking nub to keep standard short barrels from being installed, and the cocking slot, which I moved alittle higher so a regular sten bolt wouldn't line up with it. I also have most of my bolt machined out of a 1.5" bar of 4140, just need to figure out the firing pin. My major obstacle at the moment is figuring out the best way to ressurect all the machining done after the drill bit for the firing pin hole broke off inside the bolt face. I have a few suggestions on how to rectify this, but any other suggestions are welcome. More pics to come when I can get them. Please explain the idea of â€‹â€‹the trigger mechanism and the conversion of the fire because I did not understand

Posted By: weaponeer Date Posted: February 18 2012 at 11:11am very impressive. My Mk III only needs a proper sten barrel to be complete before I can consider building my Mk II and Mk V Get your Weaponeer Wear and Pro Second Amendment TShirts and Mugs here http://bit.ly/sfesDw

Posted By: blurrededge Date Posted: February 19 2012 at 1:34am


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The trigger from the original sten is used to pull the modified AR15 trigger by the connecting bar. Hopefully the pic's above will help. If you still don't follow, I will see what I can do to make it clear... maybe a video.

Semper Fi

Posted By: cankurd21 http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/printer_friendly_posts.asp?FID=401&TID=10177

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Date Posted: February 19 2012 at 9:06am


Thanks for the reply though preferably explain either by video or photo caption Frankly your industry elaborate and spectacular

Posted By: cankurd21 Date Posted: February 19 2012 at 3:30pm Thanks for the reply and I hope to explain or even draw a trigger mechanism for Qedio and conversion

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