Discussion Topic Juggler Method by Tyler Durden
I know that Papa has taken a Juggler workshop a few months ago, and he tells me that this is the Juggler method. If this has been updated, it would be good if the more recent workshop dudes (sexpdx, bl, mmasters, etc) could post about the updated model. _______ JU!"# $"%&', * JU!"#+ %his ma be counter-intuitie to ou, but ou want the conersation about *'U. /hat interesting things ou hae to sa, what stories ou hae to tell, what ou think about her, our method of reealing dark secrets from a girl0s subconscious, etc. 1ot about her. It0s about ou. %alking about clothes, negging her, asking about her life etc. will work for a short time. ut then she will see the pattern of what ou are doing, she will see ou working and she will shut ou down. %hat wa onl works for chicks with a low self-esteem. %he fuel that dries a conersation is curiosit. *ou must alwas prepare for that to be present. *es ou can keep a conersation conersation on life support b being being curious about her. 2nd 2nd if done well, it can work. ut reall, hot girls get talked up about themseles all the time. $an gus tr the busting on her approach. #eall beautiful beautiful women hae been hit on b gus since the were thirteen. 3he can see ou coming a mile awa. *ou must turn the tables and get her curious about *'U, get her coming on to *'U. *our instinct when ou ou meet a girl should alwas be to hook hook her curiosit and hae her asking asking ou a 4uestion. %hat is the beginning of her chasing ou. %hat is Juggler method. %hat is actuall not bad stuff. ut ou need to hook after her laugh. *ou did get a laugh here right5
*ou+ 6a small 2frican countr. I going going to hae to fill fill man positions in m new goernment. goernment. !et0s see... (look at her appraisingl) /hat 7ob would ou be good for... (she is curious as to what ou think she should do in our 0administration0. 3tretch it out.) I think ou would be m... minister of education.6 &er+ 6/h education56 *ou+ 6Just look at our fingers fingers (take her hand). o into into palm reading or 7ewelr powers routine. 3tor telling works 7ust the same wa - ou want her to ask to hear them. 8igure out all our good material and find a wa for her to work to discoer it. *ou do not want to "9 her. *ou want want &"# "9ing *'U. %he purpose of of "9 is to find out a person0s person0s alues and then appeal to those those things. !et her her be the one tring to align align herself with *'U# alues. *ou are the fucking fucking pri:e. %hen she will chase chase ou, then she will close ou. -Juggler
I0e tested Juggler method extensiel (literall, for /"";3), and hae met and spoken with man students to get a good perspectie on it. In this post, I want to discuss m impression and iews on+ -what it is -wh it works -where do I disagree with Juggler -what are the differences and similarities between what I do and what w hat Juggler does It would also be good to get Juggler in on this, if ou0re reading bro. If Juggler responds, I0ll reciprocate b getting $ster to repl back also, because it could make for excellent discussion. $* I$P#"33I'13+ /&2% I% I3+ People will often read me commenting to the effect of 62ttract the chick until she tries to get rapport with *'U6 %his is the irtue, I$', of an effectie pickup method. 'ne reason I0e critici:ed 33 is that it recommends 8!U88I1 the girl, and eliciting her alues. I disagree with this, as does Juggler. 8or an 8I"! "
$ost gus who tr to pickup a girl will walk up and start asking her 4uestions to show interest in her. 9er 28=. %he reason that Juggler method works is that b 7ust making statements, ou gie the girl er little reason to leae. In fact, ou0re disclosing things about ourself, and most decent people (es, including &s +)... ) will sta and listen. If ou become a good conersationalist, ou will find ourself getting rapport with girls 4uickl. 3o long as ou hae the 8U12$"1%2!3 down, such as good bodlanguage and a charismatic>alpha presence, this rapport can translate into genuine attraction er fast. 1'% asking 4uestions right awa, ou gie the girl no reason to walk awa, and ou 29'I generating bad emotional states in her such as 6wh is this gu hitting on me56 etc etc.. 3he0ll then tr to get rapport with *'U, and ou can get into a conersation. %he best part, I$', is that she feels like she "2#1" it. I0m not sure if Juggler agrees, but that0s what I0e noticed while testing testing his wa of doing things. things. 2lso note, that JU!"# JU!"# I3 =211". &e simpl uses =211" stories stories from &I3 !I8" and &I3 9I"/3 and 'PI1I'13.
/&"#" ' I I32#"" /I%& JU!"#+ I agree with "9"#*%&I1 that Juggler sas in terms of his $"%&'. I feel that its a strong method with few flaws - for gus who hae 8U12$"1%2!3 down. I I32#"" with what Juggler sas about being genuine, as it does not cause problems for me nor do I think that anthing that I do is not genuine. 3o, I'/, I agree and U3" his $"%&', but disagree with the follow Juggler tenets+ -don0t use negs -don0t bust on girls using =?8 -walk right up to the target, don0t use group theor -don0t eer use other people0s material (although as people hae seen b how much new material I post, I make up almost all m own material, and most often from m own life.. but that0s because I think that m material is "%%"#, and not necessaril that I disagree with using other people0s) /h do I disagree5 1"3+ In m experience, when ou0re dealing with "!I%" calibre &s, negs are what attracts. I0e picked up models and strippers, and the hae alwas graitated towards me the second that I negged them. In m experience, girls of this l eel seem to I1%"#P#"% negs as "1UI1" "&29I'U#. /h5
ecause it doesn0t occur to them that somebod would do this intentionall to pick them up. I hae neer met a girl who appeared to clue into this, and I hae met man girls. =?8+ It0s been m experience, as well as aid 0s, =Powles, $ster0s, #ick &0s, @an0s, adbo0s etc etc that =?8 is a great wa to attract women. usting on girls brings seems to bring out their 0 girlgirl0 instinct. I close girls like this 2!! %&" %I$", and it seems so obious to me. I0m actuall surprised that I0d get an argument from this, since it seems so obious to me. ut I0m open-minded to hear what people hae to sa on this. 2PP#'2=& %&" %2#"% I#"=%!*+ Juggler argues that the target will lose interest if ou focus on her group, and actiel ignore her. Perhaps she0ll think that ou hadn0t the courage to approach her. Instead, he suggests simpl walking up to the target, and approaching her directl. If ou are '', and can run an intriguing conersation, she will be interested, and her friends will see this. %he will not cockblock. I disagree with this, and although I would !I;" to beliee it, I hae tried it man times, and it has not worked. I also would figure that I can run a Juggler stle pickup as effectiel as man of his students, because I pla the game "9"#*2*, and I !I9" this stuff... I reall like Juggler0s posts, so I0e worked hard on deeloping the skillsets that he0s recommended. 3o if I can0t do it, after field testing this $.'. "<%"13I9"!*, from where I0m sitting its 7ust hard for me to get how anone else could. 3till, mabe some gus =21 attract an &A or BC from a club, b approaching her directl, on a ='13I3%"1% basis. ut I hae neer met anone who could.. (I often still go at the target, but the friends must be addressed at some point) It 7ust doesn0t seem to work like that. 3till, I appreciate that this can be a 8#UI%!"33 debate, because Juggler will sa 6well dude, I can, so that0s our problem6, and I0ll 7ust sa 6ummm dude, that0s nuts6 3o I0m not reall sure how to resole this one oer the internet. $abe in oston. *"3, in oston, I would reall like to see this, and I0ll !2!* eat m words if I could see this, because it would be ama:ing and I0d learn alot from it.. I0m still new to the game, and I neer hesistate to admit when I0m wrong because to me that0s a sign of P#'#"33 in m game. 3o if an students will be there, please let me know if ou see me there and show me what ou learned from Juggler. '10% U3" '%&"# P"'P!"03 $2%"#I2!+ 2s I0e stated in the 6/hat is genuine6 post, I hae no problem using other people0s material, and
I get good results. 2lthough most of m material is m own, I hae no problem using that of other people0s. %his 0not genuine0 thing doesn0t affect me, because I generall don0t like talking to girls about 21* topic that interests them, because m interests are tpicall not those shared b girls (see the post). 3o I generall feel, and thus P#'J"=%, the same leel of 0genuine0, regardless of how I do pickup. 2lso, m pickup method is that I am a ='=;* 2'* who likes to P2#%*. %his 0disclose m true self0 thing is unnecessar for me to attract girls, because I am part gu in a college town, and this stuff is U11"="332#*. %he girls here like ='=;* 2'* gus, and those who don0t I 7ust gauge it down which is er eas for me. 2nother thought, Juggler, if ou0re reading this+ /hat do ou think of =Powles game (heail canned)5 &aing winged with him, what are our thoughts5 $* $2I1 3I$I!2#I%I"3 21 I88"#"1="3 8#'$ JU!"#+ $ pickup stle is similar to Juggler0s in that I make statements, and don0t ask 4uestions. 2lso, that I hae stories about m life, which I will hook her to ask about. !ike Juggler, I don0t use gimmicks. &oweer, haing seen man people, such %oecutter, $ster, etc, use them effectiel, m opinion is that gimmicks are ''. I am 7ust too la: to learn them mself because I am good at maintaining centre of attention without them. 3o I don0t use them because I don0t need them, but see nothing wrong with using them personall. %he seem to be fun, and girls like them. 3o long as ou can ='19"#% the attention that the gie ou into attraction (which an PU2 should be able to, I think) then the are fine, I$'. 3till, I don0t use them, so perhaps I shouldn0t talk. I0m speaking onl from what I0e seen others do. 2lso, all of m canned material are either =?8 lines and 7okes (1'% canned routines), or the are stories from m life (like what Juggler suggests), which I agree with. I suppose I am similar to Juggler in that sense, because he has his 8-test, 0life as a moie0, and other similar stuff he0ll use. I0m also similar because I use stories from m own life. &oweer, I I88"# in $'%I92%I'1 for this, because I use m own stories onl because the are "23I"# %' #"$"$"#, and 1'% because I think that the are more genuine. I0e neer had a girl figure that I wasn0t genuine on occassions that I hae tinkered w ith other people0s material, because I am a P2#%* U* and girls want 8U1 and P2#%*. 3o the don0t reall care either wa.
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I agree on the talk about ourself not hers. 1ow depending where ou are at some point in time if she wants to share her life with ou, I would listen. *et the interiew of the girl, it sucks. et them to ask ou 4uestions, 4ualifing ou which means that the hae some basic form of attraction, answer them the right wa and she will start to olunteer information to ou about herself, 4ualifing herself. 'nce that last process starts meet, kino and fuck ou alread seduced her, now it is onl a matter of oercoming resistance. 2bout canned routines etc. If ou can delier them as to appear genuine, ou are home free. If not, oooppss. 2lso m fear when gus read routines here that include sample lines the girls uses to react, is that if the girl doesnt react the wa the canned routine proscribed, that the are lost. "speciall when doing canned routines, ou hae to er flexibel to take it to anwhere depending on how the girl reacts. on0t 7ust e7ect because our routine failed. 2bout 33. 33 is using 1!P to put embedded commands, ambiguities etc. into a girls mind. %he problem with 33 is that this is the goal and not a method so the whole encounter is framed towards this. %his makes for the bad wa of handeling things. 1ow doing the 1!P stuff as a method while doing our own game works wonders. It0s ama:ing what ou can get awa with. I hae debriefed girls who encountered a few of the top 33 gus, and it reall hits home. 'ne girl told me that she became er hot and had wild erotic dreams about the gu. 1ow she didnt fuck with him. 33 doesnt bring the closing techni4ues, it depends too much on the girl acting on her newl commanded feelings. 2gain that while the techni4ues are 7ust that+ the techni4ues, greatness comes with the leel of skill the techni4ues are used. In the end onl our leel of skill matters not the techni4ues. /hat I learned from Juggler besides the talk about ou and not her, was his wa of haing full emotional relations with his girls. In m understanding a lot of Juggler0s use of genuine has to do with genuine emotions. It is one thing to delier I= smoothlessl, it0s another if not onl the girl, but ou too feels the I=. %o la the girl it is probabl better not to hae genuine emotions, but for the 4ualit of our own life, for me, it matters a lot. %he trick off course is to hae the emotions without it hurting our abilit to la the girl. Proto % will ou P!!!"""2333"" 3%'P working so hard at this shit.. tring to find the time to read > use it all and learn from it.. our building an exponential cure that i feel i0m neer going to get up.. because it keeps churning new stuff out at a faster and faster rate... ;eep up the good work D 2= 61ada ha cambiado, excepto mi actitud, por eso todo ha cambiado6 /hat0s up, %. I &2 to be on the board when ou posted this, !'!D I0ll tpe up a few things that 7ump out at me to comment on for now. 'n E>BE>CF G+CH+CC 2$, %lerurden w rote+ People will often read me commenting to the effect of 62ttract the chick until she tries to get rapport with *'U6
%his is the irtue, I$', of an effectie pickup method. 2greed. 'ne reason I0e critici:ed 33 is that it recommends 8!U88I1 the girl, and eliciting her alues. I disagree with this, as does Juggler. 8or an 8I"! "
down, such as good bodlanguage and a charismatic>alpha presence, this rapport can translate into genuine attraction er fast. 2greed except I don0t think Juggler himself has what I would call an 6alpha6 presence and his criticism of me was that I was %'' alpha. %hen again, eerone on these boards seems to hae a different idea of what is or is not 6alpha6. 2lso note, that JU!"# I3 =211". &e simpl uses =211" stories from &I3 !I8" and &I3 9I"/3 and 'PI1I'13. If b 6canned6 ou mean telling a stor he has told before at some point then oka, but he doesn0t think of them as 6routines6 that he runs in order to get some #"2=%I'1. 1"3+ In m experience, when ou0re dealing with "!I%" calibre &s, negs are what attracts. I0e picked up models and strippers, and the hae alwas graitated towards me the second that I negged them. I hae gotten negs to work onl a few times "9"#, but it hasn0t been something I hae worked on a lot. I like negging $*3"!8 better. "er tr that5 In m experience, girls of this leel seem to I1%"#P#"% negs as "1UI1" "&29I'U#. /h5 ecause it doesn0t occur to them that somebod would do this intentionall to pick them up. I hae neer met a girl who appeared to clue into this, and I hae met man girls. I think it works because of self-esteem issues on the part of the chick. 'r rather, a sense of self based on how the appear to others. 2PP#'2=& %&" %2#"% I#"=%!*+ snipK 3till, I appreciate that this can be a 8#UI%!"33 debate, because Juggler will sa 6well
dude, I can, so that0s our problem6, and I0ll 7ust sa 6ummm dude, that0s nuts6 3o I0m not reall sure how to resole this one oer the internet. $abe in oston. 2pproaching groups has more to do with the phsical positioning than anthing else. If ou =21 go for the target first, definitel do but the hottest girls are seldom in the most approachable positions in the group. In 9ancouer that chick from the whole 6lime gu6 situation was the hottest girl in the club. 2nd she was in a group in an approachable position. Juggler opened her and talked for mabe FC seconds before he ran off to find 3tormwolf leaing me with her and I was able to coast in er smoothl on the rapport that &" had created in that short period of time. /hen we left the club he didn0t een remember what the hell he had said to her. &ad he been actuall %#*I1 to make something happen there, I am sure he could hae gotten her er attracted to him. 2part from that situation there were a multiplicit of other situations where he had a group of girls in the club 4uite into him. 2ctuall, %, LIL hae neer seen 21*'1" approach a group and address the /&'!" #'UP with some scripted opener and end up laing a girl in that group. I know it has happened, but I hae neer seen it. $ best friend here in Portland (!J) is a natural and he alwas seems to either approach the target directl or if there there is a gu in the group he approaches the gu first. 3o, either Juggler0s wa or !J0s wa is how I do it anmore. 2ddressing the whole group has alwas been problematic in that it leads to conersations that don0t go anwhere. 2nother problem is that almost eer club I go to is b far too loud to talk so that more than H people can hear ou at a time. !ike Juggler, I don0t use gimmicks. &oweer, haing seen man people, such %oecutter, $ster, etc, use them effectiel, m opinion is that gimmicks are ''. I think the are fine too, howeer, I think learning something like magic tricks JU3% to PU chicks is corndick behaior. If ou are into something like magic or tarot anwa, I see no problem using that stuff in seductions but it0s hard to l earn it 8'# %&2% PU#P'3" without haing it come across that wa and it looks reall lame when it does. I don0t think Juggler is totall anti-gimmick either. I think he thinks all that stuff is fine as long as it doesn0t become something ou #"!* '1 to PU. I$', %, ou do understand a lot of the mechanical aspects of the method but an appreciation for his oerall philosph and wa of thinking about the game I don0t 4uite see from this post. I will get into that more later. -P<
8uck man, i aint closed minded, but i cant read this much shit. o a summar man for those of us who 7ust cant handle more than about BCC words or so. I like 7uggler method stuff and wanna learn a little about it, but reall man ie got la: ees from hell when it comes to reading off the computer.
6make the ho sa no6 he gunwitch, waddaa want me to do dude5 its a long methodD +) I0m on m wa out, but I can feedback this last post and then I0ll look at it more later tonight or tommorow. 'n E>BE>CF M+HB+CC 2$, 3exP< wrote+ /hat0s up, %. I &2 to be on the board when ou posted this, !'!D I0ll es I know.. the sweet addiction of the 238.. helpDD 2greed except I don0t think Juggler himself has what I would call an 6alpha6 presence and his criticism of me was that I was %'' alpha. %hen again, actuall that0s a good point dude.. I forgot about this from when I met Juggler.. 2n interesting aspect of his approach is that he looks like a librarian or something.. so I found it interesting that he actuall fucks hotties which was totall counter-intuitie.. U%... I0m 9"#* open-minded to this, because I 1"9"# would hae thought that dressing P"2='=;* would get results either.. until I %#I" it.. Juggler seems to hae a 4ualit of being I32#$I1, which I assume he must exploit to his maximum adantage +) 2lso note, that JU!"# I3 =211". &e simpl uses =211" stories from &I3 !I8" and &I3 9I"/3 and 'PI1I'13. If b 6canned6 ou mean telling a stor he has told before at some point then oka, but he doesn0t think of them as 6routines6 that he runs in order to get some #"2=%I'1. interesting distinction.. good point. I hae gotten negs to work onl a few times "9"#, but it hasn0t been something I hae worked on a lot. I like negging $*3"!8 better. "er tr that5 I do that alot also.. admitting insecurities, ulnerabilities.. this makes up a large part of m PU..
the negs are to disarm the bitch shields of &AN models, strippers, or general hotties.. the0e worked extremel consistentl, but it doesn0t mean its the onl wa.. hence the point of this thread. I think it works because of self-esteem issues on the part of the chick. 'r rather, a sense of self based on how the appear to others. er possibl.. also, alot of girls who diet, and make themseles up excessiel hae this problem.. of course, these girls are often excessiel hot as well.. +) point is, if ou0re looking for girlfriends or 7ust hot chicks to get with. and 1' I0m not saing that all hotties hae !3", so let0s not take this out of context, huh, eerone5 O) 2ctuall, %, LIL hae neer seen 21*'1" approach a group and address the /&'!" #'UP with some scripted opener and end up laing a girl in that group. I know that0s what I find so interesting about this.. I hae 1' 'U% that Juggler can pr oduce results, because he runs /'#;3&'P3.. same with $ster.. '%& these gus produce the ''3.. so what interests me, is that the both get results using different $.'.s that0s wh I0d like to get more insights and explanation into this.. I$', %, ou do understand a lot of the mechanical aspects of the method but an appreciation for his oerall philosph and wa of thinking about the game I don0t 4uite see from this post. I w ill get into that more later. -P< cool.. that0s wh I posted this.. I L&29"L read and talked to his students excessiel btw.. but I posted this out of interest to see other0s opinions. -% TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (8 of 79), Read 2017 times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 11:'& !$
'n E>BE>CF M+EF+CC 2$, %lerurden wrote+ he gunwitch, waddaa want me to do dude5 its a long methodD +) It0s a er simple method. *our oer anal:ing wa of thinking made it long. If ou need hundreds of words to make a simple point, then there ma be a need to improe our communication skills, which is essential for sarging O) I0m on m wa out, but I can feedback this last post and then I0ll look at it more later tonight or tommorow. /here do ou find all this time to anal:e and post these things5 esides work, gm, sarging, sleeping, and eating lots of food...I hardl een hae time to read the boardD @ 6I0e cum to liberate all who hae not been liberated.6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (9 of 79), Read 188& times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 07:17 *$
'n E>BE>CF M+EF+CC 2$, %lerurden wrote+ U%... I0m 9"#* open-minded to this, because I 1"9"# would hae thought that dressing P"2='=;* would get results either.. until I %#I" it.. I hae decided I like peacocking in some situation and Juggler is not into peacocking at all. ut he and I talked about this in 9ancouer and it is another example of something that we think can be oka as long as it doesn0t become something ou #"!* on. I personall think Juggler himself takes the 6rel on ourself6 philosoph to a bit of an extreme. If he sas or does something more than a few times he declares it something that is becoming a 6crutch6 and he therefore has to get rid of. I am not %&2% extreme with this wa of thinking howeer I do beliee in reling on mself. ut ou hae to reali:e that we are talking about a gu who will put on a 82% 3UI% and make himself look uglier 7ust so he can challenge himself to rel on his game more. Juggler seems to hae a 4ualit of being I32#$I1, which I assume he must exploit to his maximum adantage +) I learned a lot in the workshop about making mself appear less threatening. %hat is actuall a concern I hae with peacocking. $ost of the gus I knew growing up and know now who are good with women hae stles that inole a lot of what 238 calls 6alphaness6. $an of them are black
gus who hae habits of aggressie conersational stle and bod language. Juggler thought I was /2* too threatening for his stle to work for me and it was something I had neer reall thought of at the time but he was right. I intimidated people without een tring and now I hae toned it down a lot. I think it works because of self-esteem issues on the part of the chick. 'r rather, a sense of self based on how the appear to others. er possibl.. also, alot of girls who diet, and make themseles up excessiel hae this problem.. of course, these girls are often excessiel hot as well.. +) point is, if ou0re looking for girlfriends or 7ust hot chicks to get with. and 1' I0m not saing that all hotties hae !3", so let0s not take this out of context, huh, eerone5 O) I didn0t think ou were saing that. 2nd I don0t think that all hot girls hae !3" either. ut I ' think that man of the traditional $$ targets (models, dancers, celebs, etc.) are women who are particularl preoccupied b how the appear to others because their sense of self is based on that and I think that $$ assumes this so that it can be effectie in seducing such women. I normall don0t go for these women mself so we need to remember that for the purposes of this discussion. Portland howeer, has more sex-industr women per-capita than an 2merican cit so mabe it would be a good thing for me to think about this kind of skill set a little. I actuall hae dated a stripper before. I PU0d her while still er much an 28= in man was and I did it at a bar>pi::a place outside a highl-charged social situation. 2ctuall, %, LIL hae neer seen 21*'1" approach a group and address the /&'!" #'UP with some scripted opener and end up laing a girl in that group. I know that0s what I find so interesting about this.. I hae 1' 'U% that Juggler can produce results, because he runs /'#;3&'P3.. same with $ster.. '%& these gus produce the ''3.. so what interests me, is that the b oth get results using different $.'.s that0s wh I0d like to get more insights and explanation into this.. I guess for us to hae a better discussion about %&I3 aspect of the topic than we alread hae, I
would hae to take $ster0s workshop (which I hae thought about but I don0t think he still offers them) and ou would hae to take Juggler0s. cool.. that0s wh I posted this.. I L&29"L read and talked to his students excessiel btw.. but I posted this out of interest to see other0s opinions. %here are some aspects of this that I find it hard to talk about without getting into things that I normall consider '% on 238, such as the attitudes and motiations of the PU2 and his approach to life and the foundation of his sense of self. I will gie it a shot. /hen Juggler sarges, he is not tring to impress anone. &e is not tring to proe anthing to anone or to himself. I think a lot of gus in this communit are after the recognition the get as a PU2 more than the are their own happiness. 'r rather, how the appear to their peers plas a ma7or role in their happiness or fullfillment. If that is the attitude that works for the person doing it, then there is a lot of methods discussed here that will accomplish all those things for them. %he discussions we tend to get into about what will or will not work with 6elite6 or 6superhot6 women tend to leae me a little perplexed. I0e been with some prett hot girls, Juggler has been with more than I hae I know. ut as far as whether or not an of m chicks were 6elite6, I don0t reall know because calling women such a thing as 6elite6 reall isn0t in m ocabular. LIL was attracted to them, LIL en7oed haing sex with them and spending time with them, that0s reall all that I am concerned with. %&I3 is the attitude about the game I think that ou and I, and $ster and Juggler are on opposite ends of and it is what I was talking about in m post aboe. /hen I hear talk about 6elite6 women, I think 6girls who "9"#*'1" "!3" thinks are hot6. It makes sense to want these girls. I am attracted to girls man other gus think are hot too and because the get the kind of attention the do, some different tactics do appl. ut seeking out these girls "=2U3" eerone else thinks the are hot is what runs counter to the attitude to the game that I am describing. I am not saing one attitude is 6better6 than the other. %he are 7ust different. 2nd I think that ou will neer #"2!!* be using Juggler0s approach the wa it is meant to be used if our desire to be successful using it comes from this P'/"#8U!!* #I9" to want to be able to pull chicks using "9"#* method out there. I sa know ourself, know what ou are tring to accomplish and do %&2%. %o me, learning things from people like $ster or ou or #oss for that matter is in the context of looking for what *'U do that I can use for what I am tring to do and and it0s not going to be eerthing. I hae more to sa but I am pressed for time right now. $abe %, ou can I can get on the phone to talk about this and post afterwards. %hat might sae us some time tping back and forth on this &U" and ""P topic. ut m main thought now is that I 4uestion the underling pscholog behind our relentless desire for the abilit to want to step into 21* PU20s shoes and take on 21* mentalit and being able to model 21*'1" without reseration and ' /&2% %&"* '. It0s particularl interesting since ou claim ou can effectiel do that which ou /21% to be able to do in the game using what techni4ues ou use now. I w ould rather sta in m own skin and pull chicks being $" mabe using a little of what others do that I decide fits with what I am tring to accomplish. -P< TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: .he $ultiple $ethods/ imming $etaphor (10 of 79), Read 1879 times Conf: !d"anced rom:alltreet 3eide4hotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 07:17 *$
'n E>BE>CF M+EF+CC 2$, %lerurden wrote+ ...K that0s what I find so interesting about this.. I hae 1' 'U% that Juggler can produce results, because he runs /'#;3&'P3.. same with $ster.. '%& these gus produce the ''3.. so what interests me, is that the b oth get results using different $.'.s that0s wh I0d like to get more insights and explanation into this.. I0e thought about this a lot too. %o 0sole0 this dilemma I0e come to think of the game like this+ /e hae all been dropped into the ocean, and we are tring to reach an island. $an of us are flailing around, totall baffled as to what to do or in what direction to head. 3ome of us are dropped er close to an island, and it is a simple matter of doggie-paddling oer to the island. 3ome others are born with incredibl powerful muscles and terrific eesight to spot an island and swim to it. %hese people are 0naturals0 at finding land. 3o a couple of gus who are utterl flailing around tr some different things and end up inenting some swimming strokes. 2fter a little practice, the are swimming 4uickl to an island. 2fter the climb out of the water, the decide to tell other flailers about the strokes the discoered so that the ma too reach an island and lie happil eer after. 3o anwas, one of these gus discoers the front crawlO another discoers the b reast strokeO another discoers the back strokeO another, the side strokeO another, the butterflO etc. etc. etc. 'nce mastered, an one of these strokes w ill bring someone to land 4uick enough. &oweer, some people are er comfortable with the front crawl but find the back stroke awkward. 3ome find the butterfl flash and impressie but not as effectie as the breast stroke. o ou see where I0m going with this eerone5 It0s foolish to scratch one0s head and sa, 6/ell 7eepers, the front crawl is super-duper for me, I can0t understand wh anone would waste all their time and energ learning the back strokeD6 ifferent people prefer different swimming stles... the feel more comfortable and>or get better results. It doesn0t matter what stroke the do as long as the get to land. Us, sitting here discussing the finer points of our 0swimming strokes0, hae to pick and choose the techni4ues that complement our needs and desires the best, as we craft our own strokes. 8urthermore, prett much an half-decent swimmer can perform 2!! the different strokes. 2fter all, the are each useful in different situations. *ou can0t win a backstroke race if ou onl know breast stroke. 3imilarl, ou might hae the greatest game eer in a frat basement on a 8rida night, but that0s not going to help ou after ou0e graduated. *ou need to learn different strokes for the different situations our life puts ou in.
'; well there ou hae it... I hope I haen0t oerexplained m point +) &%& /all 3treet TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: .he $ultiple $ethods/ imming $etaphor (11 of 79), Read 44& times Conf: !d"anced rom:ham ham42sha-ca Date:unda%, !pril 27, 200' 0&:'5 !$
&e man, that0s a reall cool analogDD #eall er cool .............................................. for me to P''P '1. 8ront crawl rules allD I kidD I kidD %o each his own, I0m BM ear old oung hper gu that runs around the supermarket like an M r old, so /$ doesn0t work too great for me. 1or does hea 1!P, I think that0s mostl for older chicks (I mean FCN). I like =?8 and plaful, all that funk % stuff, and 7uggler (he, I need 3'$"%&I1 for rapport and low-ke chitchat). /hammo http+>>wallstreet.pua.ouaremfriend.com TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (12 of 79), Read 197' times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 11:49 !$
1'% asking 4uestions right awa, ou gie the girl no reason to walk awa, and ou 29'I generating bad emotional states in her such as 6wh is this gu hitting on me56 etc etc.. 3he0ll then tr to get rapport with *'U, and ou can get into a conersation. %hat doesn0t alwas happen. 8or most girls, ou still need to suppl most of the conersation in the beginning to warm her up. 1ot asking 4uestions is not a trick to get rapport. It0s a wa to make the other person feel comfortable. *ou don0t do that to seek her approal, ou do that to make her feel comfortable.
I I32#"" with what Juggler sas about being genuine, as it does not cause problems for me - nor do I think that anthing that I do is not genuine. so what0s the problem5 if ou think ou0re genuine, then ou0re on the same page with him. -don0t use negs -don0t bust on girls using =?8 -walk right up to the target, don0t use group theor -don0t eer use other people0s material It0s not about whether to use them or what to use. It0s about /&* ou use them. on0t #"!* on using them on0t do them to seek approal on0t be need for a response when ou use them 'ther than that, feel free to use whateer ou want to use. I0e picked up models and strippers, and the hae alwas graitated towards me the second that I negged them. when ou said 0picked-up0, did ou actuall end up fucking them5 If not, there is reall no proe that 0negging0 can cause an & to become 0graitated0 toward ou. 8rom m experience, an neg before rapport, will onl fuck up the rest of the sarge. 3ometimes good looking gus think negs works, but the girls are reall 7ust putting up with them 0cause the0e alread decided to fuck them f or their looks (or social proof, or mone) before the neg een comes. @ 6I0e cum to liberate all who hae not been liberated.6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (1' of 79), Read 1914 times Conf: !d"anced rom:scoo6 Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 0':&5 *$
%his is an interesting and insightful dialogue. I agree with all of our points excepting+ 'n E>BE>CF G+CH+CC 2$, %lerurden w rote+ 2PP#'2=& %&" %2#"% I#"=%!*+ Juggler argues that the target
will lose interest if ou focus on her group, and actiel ignore her. Perhaps she0ll think that ou hadn0t the courage to approach her. $ experience is that I get much less shit-testing and much 4uicker rapport if I approach the target directl and then proceed to disarm her cockblocks after the opener. I will proceed to basicall ignore the target during this time. %his could be called reerse group theor. I hae now impressed upon the target that I am confident enough to approach her directl with a statement or opinion, which AQ of the gus that approach her don0t do. %hen, I shift m attention %'%2!!* awa from her and onto her group, usuall another girl who isn0t as hot but seems to hae some position of power within the group (alphaness, dominance). 1ow the & target is b oth impressed and confused...leading to an inexplicable feeling of attraction in man cases. I hae to be careful in timing this. I0e got to shift focus from the target to the cockblocks within RC-AC seconds and then 2=; to the target within another minutes to proceed with the usual sarge structure. enerall I don0t hae to use negs because m approaching her directl and then ignoring her as if I were using her as a stepping stone to gain entr into her group is neg enough. It0s hard to articulate wh this works for me consistentl but I b eliee that is the gist of it. I gie off a ibe of confident indifference while still coneing personalit and alue. Instead, he suggests simpl walking up to the target, and approaching her directl. If ou are '', and can run an intriguing conersation, she will be interested, and her friends will see this. %he will not cockblock. %his is true. &oweer, I0e had too man good direct approaches get stonewalled at isolation to 1'% tr to disarm the cockblocks...U1!"33 the cockblock(s) are actiel in a 6hookup6 and likel to isolate themseles. I disagree with this, and although I would !I;" to beliee it, I hae tried it man times, and it has not worked. It could be that ou are pro7ecting an aura of oerconfidence. =oupled with the badbo image and the peacocking (both of which I also use) the other group members ma see ou as a threat. %his is a pitfall of haing a larger-than-life persona and wh gus with $2 game like $ster preach group theor. I0m not at that leel and perhaps that is wh it works for me but not for ou. I also would figure that I can run a Juggler stle pickup as effectiel as man of his students, because I pla the game "9"#*2*, and I !I9" this stuff... I reall like Juggler0s posts, so I0e
worked hard on deeloping the skillsets that he0s recommended. I hae no doubt that ou can. 3o if I can0t do it, after field testing this $.'. "<%"13I9"!*, from where I0m sitting its 7ust hard for me to get how anone else could. 3till, mabe some gus =21 attract an &A or BC from a club, b approaching her directl, on a ='13I3%"1% basis. ut I hae neer met anone who could.. (I often still go at the target, but the friends must be addressed at some point) 2h, now of course I do agree with this point. %he friends can neer be completel excluded in m experience. 3till, I stand b m assertion that running m reerse group theor mindfuck attraction tactic after directl approaching the target works far better for me than using %#U" group theor according to $$. It surprises me that ou0e neer met anone who did this. $abe 3outhern U.3. women are a different breed. It 7ust doesn0t seem to work like that. 3till, I appreciate that this can be a 8#UI%!"33 debate, because Juggler will sa 6well dude, I can, so that0s our problem6, and I0ll 7ust sa 6ummm dude, that0s nuts6 3o I0m not reall sure how to resole this one oer the internet. $abe in oston. *"3, in oston, I would reall like to see this, and I0ll !2!* eat m words if I could see this, because it would be ama:ing and I0d learn alot from it.. I0m still new to the game, and I neer hesistate to admit when I0m wrong because to me that0s a sign of P#'#"33 in m game. 3o if an students will be there, please let me know if ou see me there and show me what ou learned from Juggler.
I0e been considering a Juggler workshop because I feel that his would be most beneficial to m oerall game at this point. Plus I respect him for not resorting to blatant spamming. I ma or ma not take a class prior to oston but I will be up there for the Eth of Jul meeting. It0s 7ust damned hard to schedule for a workshop with the tpe of business I am in and the hours I keep. &opefull past students will be in attendance. It would be good to compare notes with gus that hae taken arious workshops. $abe we0ll een hae a guru or two show upD TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (1& of 79), Read 1'47 times Conf: !d"anced rom:20 dallar suc;%suc;%asia-com Date:ednesda%, !pril 15, 200' 0&:14 !$
'n $on, BE 2pr HCCF B+ER+CC -CECC, scoob wrote+ Plus I respect him for not resorting to blatant spamming. =ome now. *ou people loe spamming, remember5 %hat0s wh Ja has set up a site for ou that has that huge list of adertised sites readil aailable and gunwitch has some modest site out there in internet land that Ja obiousl doesn0t want a good person like me to eer know about. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (14 of 79), Read 1'&' times Conf: !d"anced rom:20 dallar suc;%suc;%asia-com Date:ednesda%, !pril 15, 200' 04:02 !$
3till, mabe some gus =21 attract an &A or BC from a club, b approaching her directl, on a ='13I3%"1% basis. ut I hae neer met anone who could.. i found it... 6%ake a gu who is a SB- in looks (perhaps fat, short, hideous face, balding, old, smell, poorl dressed, etc.), but a -BC- in effort. %his gu will 3%I!! land women who are -.s- once in while, and S Fsfre4uentl.6 http+>>gunwitch.fastseduction.com> "ffort T ou can0t instantl hook them w ith 0good looks0. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (15 of 79), Read 2082 times Conf: !d"anced rom:.%lerDurden t%lerdurden9982hotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 07:19 !$
3ome other good counter-points from 3"
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (17 of 79), Read 2070 times Conf: !d"anced rom:.%lerDurden t%lerdurden9982hotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 07:49 !$
3"
tonalit, ou can cone a higher alue in that ou are a good conersationalist. for me, with m looks not reall being there, I find that I still hae difficulties PU!!I1 with this, on &AN.. I can do it on &M.- with no problems though. $ost &AN girls that I meet in public gatherings hae attitudes. &oweer, !'1" I#!3 or for 2*%I$", I hae pulled &AN with :ero =?8 or negs. 3till, for me at this point, I prefer 7ust being the cock badbo tpe, and then giing them rapport after the0e crawled all oer me. &oweer, 7ust because I do it '1" /2* doesn0t mean that another wa doesn0t work. 3o I acknowledge the irtue in what ou0re saing. nothing but statements earl
in the interaction, proiding the ma7orit of the alue to the interaction in the beginning and speaking from the heart while ou are doing it '"3 cone alue and '"3 build rapport at the same time. the statements aren0t what cone the alue, I$'. it0s the wa that ou delier them.. still, this is probabl what ou meant. I don0t share our apparent belief in a distinct separation between what is #2PP'#% and what is 92!U". H $.'.0s here are possible, in m opinion. B) get rapport through statements, which cones higher alue b being a good conersationalist and through the good things that will be coneed throughout the conersation.. also the feeling of trust that ou will generate is something that girls can alue. H) 2s #ick & would sa 6break rapport6.. do it in a w a that eokes strong emotional reactions until the girls freak and tr to get rapport with ou.. then get rapport (or 3;IP it for P2#%* =&I=;3 who onl want to 8U=;) I guess I wouldn0t go so far as to sa it is absolutel 1'% Juggler method but it bear in mind the ultimate goal of Juggler method is to rid ourself of all 2%%2%=&$"1%3 (ie. routines, canned material) and to rel more and eah I remember when we talked about this on the phone.. I reall like this idea, because as ou said it doesn0t focus on "P"1I1 on an 'U%='$".. for example, in the past, I0d run all m 2-=rowd bit, or something like that.. 1ow ACQ of the time I0d get a great reaction.. but the other BCQ, it would fall flat.. and this would throw me.. 2fter talking to ou, I reali:ed that not being attached to 'U%='$" of a statement>routine>whateer is important to being 8!UI.. I0e posted alot to /ham about this in his field reports, and its helped m game since we chatted.. now I don0t think about it, and 7ust moe onto something else.. more on ourself until ou rel ='$P!"%"!* on ourself.
this I kinda perceie as $ster0s 6fool0s mate6 thing, where een though what he0s saing is %#U", he0s kind of spinning it in a wa that he wants.. like, $ster is #I&% that its getting check-mate in '1" $'9", so ou can0t reall sa that he0s being manipulatie.. Juggler is #I&% that ou rel on *'U#3"!8.. ut I think that both of them (both gus that I !I;", btw) hae spun statements that kinda tr to push ou in a certain direction.. so 6rel on ourself6 is something that nobod would disagree with.. 6don0t use fool0s mate6 is something that nobod would disagree with.. but I$', the are taken 'U% '8 ='1%"<%, in the sense that while the are #I&%, the are slogans that don0t necessaril address the %'%2!I%* of the debate. using =?8, for example, I3 reling on ourself.. going for a l one chick might be checking her in one moe, but ou0re no fool to do so.. etc etc.. I0m 3U#" that I probabl do this as well, so its not a criticism so much as 7ust an analsis.. 2s for the 6reling on ourself6, I don0t see an difference between being ='=;* to rel on ourself, and 7ust talking about things from our life.. I en7o teasing girls. %o me, I "1J'* being cock and getting the girls to crawl all oer me, so for me I pro7ect a more "1UI1" image when I actuall use negs and =?8.. %r sharing our life experiences and obserations of the world without haing to make 6routines6 up about it and ou will be closer to what Juggler method is. 8rom the first post in this thread, I understand Juggler-$ethod as deeloping a sort of charisma, where ou /I!! direct the conersation in a particular wa. %he I3%I1=%I'1 is that ou don0t use '%&"# P"'P!"0s material, and ou use our own. %hat0s how I read the post, anwa, but it ma hae since changed. I0e asked Papa, and he sas that I understand correctl, which is as of his workshop which was in 'ctober this ear. &ence the 8-%est, 6life as a moie rating6, and self-palm reading routines. $aking up routines, openers or things to sa and tring them out is fun and in m experience it was good for starting out but I 7ust don0t see it as something to be /2!!'/" I1, I see it as something to moe beond. I know that alot of gus talk about routines as something to 6moe past6 or as a 6crutch6..
to me, this seems to come from the fact that as ou learn PU, ou are first nerous, and thus rel on canned material as a wa to conduct a conersation while pushing through our neres.. this makes sense to me, but I also point out an alternate iew on this.. at this point, I hae no neres during pickup except mabe at the start of the da (when I0m tired and not in state et) but routines are still great, because I can %I&%"1 them and I$P#'9" them.. so I don0t use them as a =#U%=&, but as a $"%&'. #"$"$"# though, that routines are P#I$2#I!* designed for #'UP3.. 3o because Juggler doesn0t U3" 0group theor0, and prefers to approach the target, alot of this doesn0t een appl.. P"#&2P3 %&"1 the #"2! diergence between $$ and Juggler method is that $ster engages the group, while Juggler approaches the target directl.. ecause for me, once I hae a girl isolated (or 7ust a lonewolf), I don0t een need to talk almost 2% 2!!.. I don0t een need 21* of this stuffD +) I can literall 7ust walk up to girls and tease them for B minutes, grab them, kiss them, and sa 6ou0re m new girlfriend6 and then drag them off.. 2gain, this is because of the cock-badbo thing, so girls will accept it.. all this other stuff is U11"="332#* for me.. U%, if Juggler seriousl =21 consistentl walk directl up to a &AN girl in a club, and game her effectiel (so its not 7ust a friendship but there is some sexual interest) then clearl Juggler he has the 3UP"#I'# 3;I!!3"%, because he has a skillset that allows him to *P233 the stuff that I hae to do in order to pull from groups in public gatherings.
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Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (18 of 79), Read 204& times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 08:'& !$
'n E>BE>CF G+A+CC 2$, %lerurden wrote+ I don0t een need 21* of this stuffD +) /ell, nobod is tring to conince ou that ou ' need it that I can see. 2nd een if the are (not sure what prompted all this discussion exactl), ou certainl don0t hae to I13I3% to us that ou don0t need it. I beliee ouD o what ou like that works for ouD
I can literall 7ust walk up to girls and tease them for B minutes, grab them, kiss them, and sa 6ou0re m new girlfriend6 and then drag them off.. 2gain, this is because of the cock-badbo thing, so girls will accept it.. all this other stuff is U11"="332#* for me.. ';2*D U%, if Juggler seriousl =21 consistentl walk directl up to a &AN girl in a club, and game her effectiel (so its not 7ust a friendship but there is some sexual interest) then clearl Juggler he has the 3UP"#I'# 3;I!!3"% 'ka, take what ou %&I1; is good and multipl it b CC millionD JU!"# I3 %&2% ''D 2nd he "!I9"#3 the goodsD &ahahaD 3orr, couldn0t resist +-) -P< TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (19 of 79), Read 2049 times Conf: !d"anced rom:.%lerDurden t%lerdurden9982hotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 08:&8 !$
'n E>BE>CF M+FE+CC 2$, 3exP< wrote+ 'n E>BE>CF G+A+CC 2$, %lerurden wrote+ I don0t een need 21* of this stuffD +) /ell, nobod is tring to conince ou that ou ' need it that I can see. 2nd een if the are (not sure what prompted all this discussion exactl), ou certainl don0t hae to I13I3% to us that ou don0t need it. I beliee ouD o what ou like that works for ouD eah it must kinda seem weird how much I go into this shit..
its all 7ust hobb-based. I could PU chicks for a long time now, but I0m looking to improe m skillset as a hobb, so I0m interested in all perspecties.. that0s wh I0e brought this up.. no other reason than that. btw m comments were in the context of #'UP %&"'#*.. %&"'#*.. hae another look O) ack I reall hae to go eat breakfast now.. I0e been on 238 for H hours.. -% TOP | TOP | Post | Reply Reply | | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (20 of 79), Read 1790 times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 12:48 !$
'ka, take what ou %&I1; is good and multipl it b CC millionD JU!"# I3 %&2% ''D 2nd he "!I9"#3 the goodsD I probabl wouldn0t go that far. %his ma creat a false image of an unrealistic hero for the newbies here...something we alread hae wa to much on this board. Just like eerone of us, Juggler has his off moments, he crashes and burns, there0s times he0s not able to follow up after opening, he e7ects when the interaction becomes hopeless. &e has great ideas, he is a great mentor, he is laid back, down to earth, and can easil initiate conersation with all tpes of people. ut I wouldn0t tr to p portrait ortrait him as some kind of seduction od, I don0t think he sees himself that wa neither. %hough he has some some good stuffs to share, there0s there0s plent for him to learn and improe improe 7ust like ou and I O) @ 6I0e cum to liberate all who w ho hae not been liberated.6 TOP | TOP | Post | Reply Reply | | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (21 of 79), Read 1748 times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 0':'7 !$
@enragon wrote in message news+GERRC.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... 'ka, take what ou %&I1; is good and multipl it b CC millionD JU!"# I3 %&2% ''D 2nd he "!I9"#3 "!I9"#3 the goodsD
I probabl wouldn0t go that far. %his ma creat a false image of an unrealistic hero for the newbies here...something we alread hae wa to much on this board. I agree we do, that0s what I was making fun of. 3orr if ou didn0t think it was appropriate to 7oke about. Just like eerone of us, Juggler has his off moments, he crashes and burns, there0s times he0s not able to follow up after opening, he e7ects when the interaction becomes hopeless. ood point, this is actuall something else that Juggler has helped me to become better at. 3taing in in until I ;1'/ the girl girl won0t open. I used to go in with an opener and not know what to do if m opener didn0t get the #"2=%I'1 that I was looking for. /hen ou are not attatched to a reaction, ou can 7ust make a statement statement about something something that ou obsere that might might 7ust be something that ou would think to ourself except ou are expressing expressing it to her instead. 2n reaction ou get (or lack of a reaction) is fine. *ou can do this again and again again and again. 2nd each time, time, whateer happens is fine. 3ometimes she opens after the first statement, sometimes after the second or third, sometimes not at all. ut either wa is fine because it0s something ou obsered>thought>shared that ou would hae said to anone and ou are happ to hae expressed it. *ou don0t think about what else else ou could hae said to hae gotten a 6reaction6 because ou are not attatched to the reaction. -P< TOP | TOP | Post | Reply Reply | | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (22 of 79), Read 1'&5 times Conf: !d"anced rom:20 dallar suc;%suc;%asia-com Date:ednesda%, !pril 15, 200' 0&:1& !$
'n $on, BE 2pr HCCF CG+BA+CC -CECC, %lerurden wrote+ Juggler method is to rid ourself of all 2%%2%=&$"1%3 (ie. routines, canned material) and to rel more and more on ourself until ou rel ='$P!"%"!* on ourself *eah, like, if ou see Juggler Juggler on our path, kill him. TOP | TOP | Post | Reply Reply | | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (2' of 79), Read 20&5 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 07:'7 !$
%lerurden wrote+ %his ma be counter-intuitie counter-intuitie to ou, but ou want the conersation about *'U.
%his is one aspect of what Juggler does, but his entire method, at least as far as I hae been able to determine from his archie, consists of seeral aspects. %here are a lot sub7ects he coered, but man of his posts focus primaril on conersational skills. Juggler, to me, seems to be a er witt w itt and manipulatie conersationalist. 1ow, I hae casuall used the word 6manipulation6 in reference to his tactics before, but I don0t consider that to be a negatie thing. It simpl seems to me that he is er good at controlling or manipulating the conersation to get what he wants, and, 4uite frankl, this is a good skill to hae in PU and in interpersonal communication in general. Juggler seems to hae a er engaging stle where he can create interesting conersation out of thin air. 2nd while he tells other people that the should do the same, I think his stle reall reflects his particular skills and is not something that eerone should tr to imitate. Juggler uses his abilit to be interesting in a totall uni4ue and disarming wa to 4uickl demonstrate alue in a conersational setting. ut since few people could keep up their end of an een conersation with Juggler, he will fre4uentl gain a 6conersational adantage6 which he can then use to 4uickl guide the conersation where he wants it to go. Juggler has seeral tools or patterns that he uses to do this. 2 few of them are making statements, hooks, the exchange frame, reerse "9, and forcing I'Is. $aking statements is probabl his most discussed and well-known tactic, and it is the one on which ou reposted some material in this thread. Juggler probabl has at least a half-do:en posts of similar detail and 4ualit all on the sub7ect of making statements. It0s a decent idea, but I think it needs to be seen in the context of his oerall stle. I don0t think that it is the core dnamic that constitutes his method. 2s for the other tactics, tactics, here is a brief oeriew. 2 hook is a tactic wherein he sas something in in order to elicit a certain certain response that will allow him to talk about what he wants to discuss while making it look like it was the other person0s idea. %he exchange frame is a wa of establishing that he expects people to gie him something in order to get something in return. &e specificall does this with er minor things in order to make the point that this is something that is er important to him. #eerse "9, or getting her to elicit his alues, is similar to the exchange frame in that it constitutes a gie-and-take wherein he re4uires her to adapt to his alues as he builds rapport. 8orcing I'Is I'Is is also similar to the other other techni4ues in that it is a wa of getting a chick to do what he wants her to do, in this case giing him I'Is which will form the basis for an extraction. In addition to these conersational tactics, Juggler has also posted seeral other strategic PU ideas, perhaps the most significant of which is the 3'I. /hile I haen0t studied studied this group of strategies strategies in as much detail as the conersational tactics, I think man of them work around the principle of using a bold moe that comes right r ight out and lets her know his intentions in a er smooth and non-threatening non-threatening wa. %hus the 3'I seems seems to be sort of the model for this group. %he fundamental principle of 3'I is to let the chick know what ou want w ant to do in a wa that forces her imagine it happening in her head and then decide whether to accept or re7ect re7ect it. %he possibilit possibilit for re7ection must be there, and Juggler seems to prefer to 4uickl bring the issue to a head,
probabl because he is adept at easil putting aside an ob7ections. Perhaps the ke to his whole method is that he puts forward his agenda in a wa that makes other people not feel good about re7ecting it. I think it is good that Juggler0s stuff is becoming more well-known on this 1. &is approach to PU seems to me to be less formal and more flexible than some of the preious well-documented methods on 238. ecause of this, I think his ideas hae potential to help a lot of people learn man of the basic skills of PU without haing to memori:e clums, contried scripts like our forefathers (of a couple of ears ago, that is) had to do. "ssentiall, I beliee that Juggler0s posts contain the seeds for man new insights into the underling structure of PU which could dramaticall change the wa we approach the art on this 1. %he difficult part, at this point, is to dig through them and deelop these ideas in a more structured and organi:ed wa. %his is, of course, an ongoing process that continues as more people stud and understand Juggler0s material, and perhaps this thread will be a useful step in that process. the wa, I hae a hand-selected group of seeral do:en posts that constitute the meat of Juggler0s archie loosel arranged b categor. If other people are seriousl interested in looking at these in the context of this thread or for other reasons, then some sort of general distribution method might be arranged. Perhaps formhandle would een set something up on the main serer. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (2& of 79), Read 20'7 times Conf: !d"anced rom:*roto protogothsu6genius-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 07:4& !$
2ll in faour for a neat section of Juggler0s post. I didnt know about the hook and the 3'I, most of time giing 1eo-#io praise for those. $abe I am wrong. 'ne thing I forgot to add in m preious post+ 2bout =?8. 2 lot of attention goes to =?8. 8or me =?8 seems more of a condition sine 4ua none. If ou are not cock, do ou hae &3"5 /ithout &3" hard to PU2. If ou are not funn, do ou hae a sense of humour5 /ithout a sense of humour hard to PU2. asicall =?8 is the basic stance which most often than not is good enough to get ou laid as most gus are !3" and dont hae a sense of humour. %he real 4uestion is gien that ou are>do =?8 what else can ou do to enhance our game. 3o basic stance+ =?8, then game plan (/$, Juggler, $$, 33). I don0t know Juggler but I doubt he is not =?8. Proto TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (24 of 79), Read 20'4 times Conf: !d"anced rom:.%lerDurden t%lerdurden9982hotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 08:10 !$
3oftcontrol, thanks for adding to the thread dude.. I see no reason not to add a Juggler thread aboe this one if 8ormhandle doesn0t ob7ect.. I0m also going to email Juggler to ask him to reiew this thread if he has time, because its something that interests me.
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Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (25 of 79), Read 2097 times Conf: !d"anced rom:.%lerDurden t%lerdurden9982hotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 08:0' !$
adding more posts to m own thread, before I look at the feedback+ =#2I03 %2;" '1 #'U%I1"3+ =raig, the eliminidate gu, suggested this when we met. 8I#3%+ #outines &"!P ou, because ou hae no abilit to conduct a conersation because of our neres. 3o with routines, at least ou can sa 3'$"%&I1. 3"='1+ #outines &U#% ou, because ou0e now learned to control our state, and ou hae the abilit to conduct a conersation. 3o the routines will hold back the good cono that ou were putting out there. !23%+ #outines go back to &"!PI1 ou, because ou hae now deeloped a strong conersational skill, and ou can 2 them to "1&21=" our conersational abilities.
I like his analsis of it. People ma recall that I did PU#" natural conersation and bodlanguage for M straight months before eer using a routine. 3o for me, perhaps I0m coming from a frame where conersational skills are 233U$".
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Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (27 of 79), Read 1985 times Conf: !d"anced rom:mmasters antifluaol-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 02:'4 *$
2lright, I neer took the Juggler workshop but the tpe of method is what I use. 8irstl, drop the whole seduction thing for a few weeks and 7ust go around and 3'=I2!I@" with
people, eerone eerwhere, become a genuine "<%#'9"#%. itch all the lines to open. /hen people take notice of ou in 6their enironment6 for a split second that is when ou should get used to 7ust talking to them. %alk about something, talk about 1'%&I1, 7ust talk and talk, and get relating to things with them. 2nd tr to use statements as best ou can. et used to saing what comes off the top of our head to people. =are about our opener and WU"3%I'1 it to ourself, she will 4uestion it too. 2. Practice seeing things in the enironment and being able to improise conersation off of them. 'b7ects, colors, fabrics, anthing. ecome a good conersationalist, it takes practice, but get to the point where ou can relate anthing to anthing. 8orget negs, the can easil go into a negatie frame, sta positie, and if the other person wants to talk about something negatie, redirect the conersation to something positie or neutral een. %r talking to her after a few minutes of chat like she0s our $2$2, or our faorite cousin. et them on the same leel as ou going %&2% route. 2lso be as non threatening as possible on approaches, bod language is ke here. ut also is attitude. "er wonder wh some girls loe to go to ga bars. It0s because ga gus are 3' non threatening to themD 3impleD 'nce ou start to get all this stuff down and practice it eerwhere as much as ou can. %hen ou can focus on the game of it. 2nd here0s how ou do that, wheneer conersations reach a high point ou 3'ID /owwww, that0s so complex. + ut reall if ou0re both talking and she sas something funn which gets ou both laughing, ou sa something like, 6ou0re funn, ou make me laugh.6 6I like ou.6 6*ou hae such and interesting sense of humor.6 It0s that simple. 2nd after ou get to a few high points with her, and want to close, sa 6this was a great conersation, we should hang out sometime, I0d like that.6 'r something along those lines and then close. 'nce ou get the opening and conersationalist part going effortlessl, the rest is making moes on high points. 2nd that0s it. et that down and it0s all effortless. %hen it0s all become being social, fun, "1UI1" and putting our best foot forward. %he people ou interact with will see all these 4ualities in ou b simpl reading in between the lines. &ope that helps. mmasters TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (28 of 79), Read 1847 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 09:4& *$
mmasters wrote+ 2lright, I neer took the Juggler workshop but the tpe of method is what I use. I0m not sure what this post has to with the thread in general, but I thought it was a good post, so here are m comments. 8irstl, drop the whole seduction thing for a few weeks and 7ust go around and 3'=I2!I@" with people, eerone eerwhere, become a genuine "<%#'9"#%. itch all the lines to open. /hen people take notice of ou in
6their enironment6 for a split second that is when ou should get used to 7ust talking to them. %alk about something, talk about 1'%&I1, 7ust talk and talk, and get relating to things with them. 2nd tr to use statements as best ou can. I agree with this for gus who hae no idea how to approach chicks. In fact, I think this is far better for them than learning some routines and approaching girls to specificall 6sarge6 them and run their routines. us like that aren0t going to be PUing these chicks anwa, except b sheer luck, so the might as well be learning something the can use, like how to 7ust sociali:e and talk to people. %his is the building-block skill of all PU. 8orget negs, the can easil go into a negatie frame, sta positie, and if the other person wants to talk about something negatie, redirect the conersation to something positie or neutral een. I$', negs are an adanced techni4ue. eginners don0t een know what the are, much less how and when to do them. *ou should onl be using a neg if ou reall know what ou doing. 2lso be as non threatening as possible on approaches, bod language is ke here. ut also is attitude. "er wonder wh some girls loe to go to ga bars. It0s because ga gus are 3' non threatening to themD 3impleD 1on-threatening is good, but there is a fine line between non-threatening and passie or beta. *ou don0t want to be an 28= puss. *ou still want to be bold and aggressie, but ou want to do so in a non-threatening wa. It0s not such an eas concept to explain. 'nce ou start to get all this stuff down and practice it eerwhere as much as ou can. %hen ou can focus on the game of it. 2nd here0s how ou do that, wheneer conersations reach a high point ou 3'ID /owwww, that0s so complex. ut reall if ou0re both talking and she sas something funn which gets ou both laughing, ou sa something like, 6ou0re funn, ou make me laugh.6 6I like ou.6 6*ou hae such and interesting sense of humor.6 It0s that simple. 2nd after ou get to a few high points with her, and want to close, sa 6this was a great conersation, we should hang out sometime, I0d like that.6 'r something along those lines and then close. %hose are prett weak 3'Is. 'nce ou get the opening and conersationalist part going effortlessl, the rest is making moes on high points. 2nd that0s it. et that down and it0s all effortless. %hen it0s all become being social, fun, "1UI1" and putting our best foot forward. %his is not exactl all there is to it. *our method is sort of like the beginnings of a Juggler-stle method, but his method goes far beond what ou posted. *es, he does go out and talk to people in a social, fun, and genuine wa, but he also does this while emploing seeral conersational techni4ues that allow him to direct and manipulate people into doing exactl what he wants without appearing to be putting an effort into it. It doesn0t look like he is doing anthing special beond 7ust being genuine, but in fact, he is. %he tactics are there, but most people can0t see them.
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Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (29 of 79), Read 1821 times Conf: !d"anced rom:mmasters antifluaol-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 10:17 *$
softcontrol wrote+ mmasters wrote+ 2lso be as non threatening as possible on approaches, bod language is ke here. ut also is attitude. "er wonder wh some girls loe to go to ga bars. It0s because ga gus are 3' non threatening to themD 3impleD 1on-threatening is good, but there is a fine line between non-threatening and passie or beta. *ou don0t want to be an 28= puss. *ou still want to be bold and aggressie, but ou want to do so in a non-threatening wa. It0s not such an eas concept to explain. *es, our bod language, oice tone and oerall confidence is important here too. 'nce ou start to get all this stuff down and practice it eerwhere as much as ou can. %hen ou can focus on the game of it. 2nd here0s how ou do that, wheneer conersations reach a high point ou 3'ID /owwww, that0s so complex. ut reall if ou0re both talking and she sas something funn which gets ou both laughing, ou sa something like, 6ou0re funn, ou make me laugh.6 6I like ou.6 6*ou hae such and interesting sense of humor.6 It0s that simple. 2nd after ou get to a few high points with her, and want to close, sa 6this was a great conersation, we should hang out sometime, I0d like that.6 'r something along those lines and then close. %hose are prett weak 3'Is. *es the are, but after haing met somebod for -BC minutes do ou reall want to be sending out strong 3'Is et5 'nce ou get the opening and conersationalist part going effortlessl, the rest is making moes on high points. 2nd that0s it. et that down and it0s all effortless. %hen it0s all become being social, fun, "1UI1" and putting our best foot forward. %his is not exactl all there is to it. *our method is sort of like the beginnings of a Juggler-stle method, but his method goes far beond what ou posted. *es, he does go out
and talk to people in a social, fun, and genuine wa, but he also does this while emploing seeral conersational techni4ues that allow him to direct and manipulate people into doing exactl what he wants without appearing to be putting an effort into it. It doesn0t look like he is doing anthing special beond 7ust being genuine, but in fact, he is. %he tactics are there, but most people can0t see them. %here0s more than that of course, but I beliee that0s the bottom line of it. mmasters TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: <s: Juggler reposts ('0 of 79), Read 181' times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 11:'& *$
mmasters wrote+ %hose are prett weak 3'Is. *es the are, but after haing met somebod for -BC minutes do ou reall want to be sending out strong 3'Is et5 3ince it will take some time to get all of m Juggler stuff up somewhere publicall, I will repost his two most important 3'I posts below. *ou should find our answers there. Post XB %he great thing about 3'Is is that the can put ou in a frame where the girl and ou are talking about the two of ou haing sex. 3he can not do this without imagining haing sex with ou. 2 good 3'I is reall a sensuall painted picture of the two of ou doing pleasurable phsical things to each other. /ork on making the picture enticing. "en if she turns the 3'I down, she will still hae to ision what ou are talking about. %hat in and of itself is a good thing. 2n 3'I does show alue. It sas ou can talk about sex candidl. %hus ou must be a man who seduces man women. Ironicall, showing an abilit to candidl and
smoothl 3'I can make a girl more likel to chase ou. *ou can 3'I without chasing her. %he first 3'I I usuall use is er light and is half 3'I and half hoop for her to 7ump through. 8or instance, 6If I were to kiss ou, on a scale from B-BC how would I rate our kiss56 3'Is can be er aluable in getting her to bed 4uickl. 8igure out how to incorporate 3'I into our game and ou will notice a huge improement in getting girls into bed fast. 2lso, keep in mind an 3'I should onl be used after ou hae attracted the girl. 3o in a sense, she is 3'Iing ou alread. *ou can also reerse 3'I+ 6I am not the kind of gu who would 7ust take a woman home the first night I met her and gie her a night of pleasure and continuous orgasms. I0m not that eas. /ell, at least ou hae to bu me a couple of drinks first.6 %he best wa to 3'I is 7ust get into talking about kissing and then turn up the heat from there. $an girls will re7ect an 3'I. %he hae to because the do not want to come across as sluts. %he ke here is to neer gie them the chance to do that and>or not take their re7ection seriousl. If ou hae an hint that she ma re7ect ou can 7ust keep going right past the 3'I+ 6I hae a bottle of whipped creame in the frig. *ou should come home with me and help me finish it off. &e doesn0t that girl oer there look like Julia #oberts56 'r ou can do a take awa+ 6!et0s go back to m place and massage lotion into each other0s skin.6 (%his is where ou watch her reaction. If she is going to re7ect the 3'I ou do a take awa.) 61o wait. *ou are prett tall. 8orget it. I don0t hae enough for ou.6 3o ou see, she has to picture the 3'I in her mind, een though ou pulled it awa. 2nd if ou gie her the chance to re7ect an 3'I, and she does, then 7ust laugh. %his is good because it shows that ou will not take her re7ection of our adances seriousl. %his works because she knows she has to shoot down the 3'I so she doesn0t look like a slut. ut she reall wants to go home with ou or ma later after ou make her reall horn with more 3'Is. 3he 7ust needs to get her protest on the record but does not want ou to actuall stop under this 0technical re7ection0. /hen ou laugh, it is like a wink - shows that ou
understand her re7ection has to be there for the record. $ake sense5 $an gus seem to hae trouble using 3'Is because the feel incongruent with themseles. Using an 3'I seems like introducing a huge state change. ut when a gu is unwilling to do this the interaction is probabl messed up alread. &e was probabl not bold at the approach. %o reall make an impact on a girl and get her wanting ou deepl that night ou hae to demonstrate that ou are a man who will bodl make state changes. %his is real confidence. *ou need to show from beginning to end that ou hae what it takes to introduce state changes. 2nd show that once ou moe her to a new state, ou can keep her there and make it en7oable. %hus she understands that ou can get her into bed (a state change) resolutel and smoothl and it will be a pleasurable experience ou hae established a good track record. us get repore with a girl and use good material and then the wonder wh the can0t close the deal and get the girl into bed. %his is usuall because the hae been unwilling from the er start to make dramatic state changes. %hat is wh ou should neer look for was to ease into an approach with a girl. 2 gimmick or trick to get a girl talking w ith ou ma indeed start a long conersation but it will hurt ou when tring to close the deal. *ou need to be bold from beginning to end and make man dramatic state changes throughout. *ou sort of hae to be congruentl incongruent. %hen the 3'I is in character. %hen the 3'I will be eentuall accepted. %hat brings me to another point. 2ll it takes for a girl to accept an 3'I is not to re7ect it. 3he is er unlikel to sa, 6*es, let0s go do that6. %hat is one reason wh 3'Is should rarel be phrased as 4uestions. If ou do this ou are prett much negating an chance for her to accept the 3'I. Instead make statements+ 6/e should go back to m house and watch the cat do backflips while ou gie me a massage.6 %hat0s it. If she sas nothing then ou are in. *ou should presume she is coming home with ou. If she doesn0t accept an 3'I ou should return to chatting about whateer, then after a minute 3'I again. ;eep this pattern up and if ou make our 3'Is creatiel seductie enough and make it clear ou are want to gie her pleasure then she will get real horn and eentuall accept one. 'ne other thing, after she accepts the 3'I and ou take her home ou ma hae to repeatedl 3'I until ou are actuall haing sex with her. 2lso, ou ma find it helpful to agree when she tells ou that she is not
the tpe of girl to sleep with someone the night she met him. ;eep nodding on this account. %his is another 0on record re7ection0 which saes her face while ou are seducing bod 0off record0. 1eer fight her re7ections of an 3'I. Just consider them for book keeping sake onl. Post XH 2t some point ou are going to hae to 3'I. If ou tr to take her clothes off, that is an 3'I. *ou ma be tring to aoid all risk until the last moment. I0m sure ou hae had success with setting the mood, kinoing the girls and then building it up into sex. %hat can work. ut our life will get much easier if ou can figure out how to incorporate 3'I into our game. #emember that 3'Is are deliered '1!* after she is demonstrating that she is interested. 'r, if ou were using m sstem, after ou had forced I'Is. %he difference between an 3'I and a close is that the 3'I talks about what ou are going to do with her. %he close is simpl the accounting details of making it happen - numbers or driing situations, etc. %he close should be almost an after thought. 8or a better understanding of an 3'I let0s look at the approach. *ou can call the approach a tpe of 3'I. %he mere fact that ou are coming to talk to her is letting her know ou are interested. %hat is wh ou can not sneak in. us continuall come up with gimmicks to tr to get in risk-free. Problem is, a hot girl has been hit on since she was thirteen. 3he can see this coming a mile awa. 3he ma or ma not shoot such a gu down, she ma een talk with him for awhile but she will not respond to him like she does a confident gu who comes in unafraid of a risk. irls don0t understand a lot about what reall works on them but the are right when the sa the want a bold confident man. emonstrate this to her. 2nd ironicall, if ou come in arrogantl exposed to fire ou will be less likel to be shot. /ell an 3'I works similarl. *ou demonstrate ou are unafraid to tell her straight out what ou can do for her sexuall. $ost gus don0t do that. %he are timid. %he tr to sneak her into bed. %he hope that repore or kino will be enough. /ell some times it is, but man times it is not - ou hae to put the picture in her mind. *ou hae to get oer the aoidance of risk. Instead court risk. 3he needs to see that ou can work around her anti-slut protocol. 3he /21%3 to hae sex
with ou. *ou feel that her saing 1' is a bad precedent. I understand where ou are coming from. ut remember that the mind can not hold a negatie thought. If I tell ou to not imagine a 9olkswagon beetle, ou can not help but imagine a funn bug looking car. 2s far as her imagination, her 1' is not anwhere near as powerful as our suggestie 3'I. 2lso, ou are presuming that ou are creating a 1'. %he fact is that the 1' is there right from the beginning. *ou 7ust can0t see it. %hat is where man gus get in trouble. %he hae done a good 7ob of attracting her. 1ow the hope the work is oer and tr to extract her. ut the neer did what was neccesar to find out if the had attracted her enough. ut if ou are still wanting to aoid 1's then do the other things I suggested and don0t gie her the chance b either doing a take awa or talking past the ob7ection 2 proper 3'I does three things+ B. It gets her thinking about sex with ou. H. It let0s her see that ou are bold and candid enough to take her all the wa. F. It tells ou if ou hae done a good enough 7ob in the attraction phase of our seduction. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: <s: Juggler reposts ('1 of 79), Read 1805 times Conf: !d"anced rom:mmasters antifluaol-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 12:'0 !$
3oftcontrol+ 2s ! suggested a light 3'I with sexual state is prett damn powerful. I think new gus would be better to go out and do light 3'Is on conersational highs and get used to doing them at the right time, then once the master that the will hae a feel for using the strong 3'Is better later on. 2lso, shit ou could use both, get her agreeing on the light ones then go for the hea ones later getting a es pattern formation underling our 3'Iing of her. mmasters TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method ('2 of 79), Read 1821 times Conf: !d"anced rom:=>scorp# ;e6na6hotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 11:17 *$
wheneer conersations reach a high point ou 3'ID /owwww, that0s so complex. ut reall if ou0re both talking and she sas something funn which gets ou both laughing, ou sa something like, 6ou0re funn, ou make me laugh.6 6I like ou.6 6*ou hae such and interesting sense of humor.6 It0s that simple. 2nd after ou get to a few high points with her, and want to close, sa 6this was a great conersation, we should hang out sometime, I0d like that.6 'r something along those lines and then close. %hose are prett weak 3'Is. not the 6I like ou6 3'I. combine this with sexual state, its more pow erful than a nuclear bomb. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method ('' of 79), Read 179& times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 01:17 !$
I agree with ! that softcontrol is wrong that 6I like ou6 is a weak 3'I. It0s er powerful and it has helped to get me laid seeral times now. It depends on our delier. *ou hae to do it at a &I&-P'I1% in the interaction. 8or example, laughter or enthusiasticall agreeing on some point that was made or agreement about liking something or another kind of demonstration of similarit in expression. 3omething that ou "1UI1"!* like. %his wa it becomes real to sa it. %he truth is that not man gus are confident enough to comfortabl tell a woman the like her in a wa that is appropriate. If ou sa 6I like ou6 at some lull in the conersation, then es it is weak and een comes across creep depending on the situation. -P< TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method ('& of 79), Read 1791 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 01:'2 !$
3exP< wrote in message news+GERRF.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... I agree with ! that softcontrol is wrong that 6I like ou6 is a weak 3'I. It0s er powerful and it has helped to get me laid seeral times now.
/ell, ou might want to ask Juggler about it then. 2ccording to what he has posted here, I think he would agree with me. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method ('4 of 79), Read 1781 times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 02:'' !$
softcontrol wrote in message news+GERRR.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... 3exP< wrote in message news+GERRF.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... I agree with ! that softcontrol is wrong that 6I like ou6 is a weak 3'I. It0s er powerful and it has helped to get me laid seeral times now. /ell, ou might want to ask Juggler about it then. 2ccording to what he has posted here, I think he would agree with me. I tend to doubt he would agree with ou based on the fact that he met the girl I PU0d at the airport and Dclosed who I used the 6I like ou6 3'I on right after I used it and he told me it was good that I did that because it let her feel comfortable in belieing I reall did like her and that I wasn0t going to shoot her down if she made adances or reciprocated adances of mine. In an case, I am sure he will show up in this thread at some point and he will be able to correct me if I hae mischaracteri:ed something. -P< TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method ('5 of 79), Read 1781 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 02:&8 !$
3exP< wrote in message news+GERM.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... I tend to doubt he would agree with ou based on the fact that he met the girl I PU0d at the airport and Dclosed who I used the 6I like ou6 3'I on right after I used it and he told me it was good that I did that because it let her feel comfortable in belieing I reall did like her and that I wasn0t going to shoot her down if she made adances or reciprocated adances of mine. 3o he said it was good. %hat still doesn0t make it an 3'I. 2 3'I, according to Juggler, does three things+ B. It gets her thinking about sex with ou. H. It let0s her see that ou are bold and candid enough to take her all the
wa. F. It tells ou if ou hae done a good enough 7ob in the attraction phase of our seduction. %his is from one of the articles I reposted. 6I like ou6 certainl does not do either of the first two and probabl doesn0t do the third either. /hateer it is, it is not an 3'I. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method ('7 of 79), Read 1781 times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 0':09 !$
softcontrol wrote in message news+GERMG.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... 3exP< wrote in message news+GERM.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... I tend to doubt he would agree with ou based on the fact that he met the girl I PU0d at the airport and Dclosed who I used the 6I like ou6 3'I on right after I used it and he told me it was good that I did that because it let her feel comfortable in belieing I reall did like her and that I wasn0t going to shoot her down if she made adances or reciprocated adances of mine. 3o he said it was good. %hat still doesn0t make it an 3'I. &e called it that in the workshop which is wh I am calling it that here. 2 3'I, according to Juggler, does three things+ B. It gets her thinking about sex with ou. I hae known all the girls were into me who I hae used this on at the time I deliered it. If she I3 into ou and ou tell her *'U like &"# then she /I!! be thinking of sex with ou because it becomes a much more real possibilit to her once she knows ou like her. H. It let0s her see that ou are bold and candid enough to take her all the wa. !ike I said, most gus are not comfortable telling a girl the like her and delier it well and with confidence and sincerit. It is a bold moe the wa I see it. F. It tells ou if ou hae done a good enough 7ob in the attraction phase of our seduction. In m experience so far with this particular 3'I (if we are going to call it
that), I was prett sure I was doing a good 7ob before I used it. 3o I will leae this one to Juggler to explain. /hateer it is, it is not an 3'I. I don0t see the need for the rigid semantics regarding what is or is not an 3'I. I think it0s close enough and apparentl so does Juggler since he does call it that. eond that, I know it works. -P< TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method ('8 of 79), Read 1781 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 0':'4 !$
3exP< wrote in message news+GERAC.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... &e called it that in the workshop which is wh I am calling it that here. ';, mabe I am wrong. /hile our point-b-point explanation made some sense, it still didn0t reall conince me that this l ine is a strong 3'I according the standards he set forth. If Juggler considers it be one, I hope that he will explain wh in more detail. I don0t see the need for the rigid semantics regarding what is or is not an 3'I. I think it0s close enough and apparentl so does Juggler since he does call it that. eond that, I know it works. 2s I implied in m first post in this thread, I am still inestigating this aspect of Juggler0s method, so I f ind it useful to know exactl how he defines the terms he is using. 'nce I hae broken it down and I understand how and wh it works, terminolog obiousl won0t matter so much. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method ('9 of 79), Read 178' times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 0':&4 !$
softcontrol wrote in message news+GERAG.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... 3exP< wrote in message news+GERAC.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... &e called it that in the workshop which is wh I am calling it that here. ';, mabe I am wrong. /hile our point-b-point explanation made some sense, it still didn0t reall conince me that this line is a strong 3'I according the standards he set forth.
2ctuall, I had another thought about this and that ma be that I was confusing what ou called a 6weak 3'I6 with what Juggler refers to as 6weak6 with regards to other things. &e tends to call something 6weak6 or sa it 6weakens6 if it is asking for or seeking the other person0s approal and doesn0t P#'9I" alue but 23;3 for it. %his is wh the method stresses making statements. 3tatements P#'9I" alue (strengthen), 4uestions 23; for it (weaken). 3o een if it turns out it0s not an 63'I6 exactl, saing 6I like ou6 (if deliered with good timing) is not something Juggler would call 6weak6. %his further demonstrates that our 4uibble here is mostl about semantics. -P< TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&0 of 79), Read 17&1 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 07:08 !$
3exP< wrote+ 2ctuall, I had another thought about this and that ma be that I was confusing what ou called a 6weak 3'I6 with what Juggler refers to as 6weak6 ... 3o een if it turns out it0s not an 63'I6 exactl, saing 6I like ou6 (if deliered with good timing) is not something Juggler would call 6weak6. ';, that0s fair. I didn0t mean to sa that the statement itself was weak or ineffectie, 7ust that it is not a er good example of an 3'I. I think it0s useful to be clear about what an 3'I is and is not 7ust as it is important to be clear about what a neg is an is not. It helps eerone for people to accuratel describe what techni4ue the are using, otherwise we end up with seeral posts back and forth to clear up the confusion. +) I don0t reall know how to classif the 6I like ou6 line. /hile it0s not an 3'I, I am not sure what it is exactl. 2s to 3'Is, one of m personal faorites is one that %unnces once posted. &e would casuall mention to chicks at a certain point in the PU that the are going to hae sex. %hat0s an 3'I. %he archie link is+ http+>>www.fastseduction.com>cgi-bin>search.cgi5 actionTretriee?grpTE?mnTBCFARCBCBGEMMHM %hat post also talks about how to calibrate the chick0s reaction to the 3'I, which is important. I think aid < uses essentiall the same line, but ou will hae to look that one up ourself. Juggler0s posted examples of 3'Is are somewhat less blunt and more expressie, but the are no less explicit. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&1 of 79), Read 1&'7 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com
Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 08:09 *$
I wrote+ I think aid < also uses essentiall the same line, but ou will hae to look that one up ourself. 2ctuall, I 7ust stumbled onto it, so here it is. %his is from formhandle0s post on =liff0s list, http+>>www.fastseduction.com>cliff>HCCB-CR-CHa.shtml 6- If a chick resists our come-ons or innuendo, ou don0t want to spend an more effort on her because she0s not going to fuck ou without a lot of work. 8or example, if she asks 6/here are we going tonight56, aid sas 6%o bed, but I0m kind of hungr right now so we0re going to get a bite to eat first.6 If she gets offended, drop her before taking her to eat because it0s clear she isn0t thinking about fucking ou.6 ';, so it0s not exactl the same line that %unnces uses, but is a clear 3'I nonetheless. %he principle is the same. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&2 of 79), Read 18'4 times Conf: !d"anced rom:mmasters antifluaol-com Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 10:0& *$
I forgot to address a few points in m former post. B) =ock > funn H) roups B) I beliee that cock funn can and should be used if it0s something ou0re good with or something that comes natural for ou. I naturall do it a little bit but not a lot, it0s not the most natural for me, perhaps it has to do with the fact I0m an onl child. In this part of m post+ %r talking to her after a few minutes of chat like she0s our $2$2, or our faorite cousin. Use that toK et them on the same leel as ou %he door is open for cock funn if that0s something ou naturall do with the people ou0re close with. 3o I0m not sure what Juggler0s take is on that, but that is m take. H) =oncerning groups, Juggler has his own group theor of sorts. It0s not what mster does. Juggler puts his attention on specific people rather than the whole group. (tell me if I0m wrong here Juggler, but this is m understanding) 2nd he engages a person drifting on the outside of the group, then moes to other people in the group if he desires to. %hat0s the basic idea of what he0s doing off the top of m head but I0m sure I0m missing some of his thoughts. mmasters TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&' of 79), Read 1811 times Conf: !d"anced rom:d"s Date:$onda%, !pril 1&, 200' 11:14 *$
#egarding 7uggler and groups. I recall him saing on the topic of groups that often a girl0s real group and perceied group is different. 'nl b directl engaging the target initiall, will ou discoer who the real potential obstacles are. %hat gu ou thought was part of her group, is often 7ust some 28= who is tring to leech off her for social proof and will e7ect when a real alpha male engages her. I0e being surpised when I hae approached the target directl and other people in her group hae e7ected themseles (gus and girls). If ou start off b approaching the group as a whole, ou might be keeping obstacles there who would0e otherwised e7ected to allow their friend to meet the outgoing confident looking gu who approached her. &opefull 7uggler will 7ump in this thread and straighten shit out. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&& of 79), Read 1774 times Conf: !d"anced rom:?unter thirdmarshallhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 02:08 !$
%his is great. %hanks % for the material. I$' Juggler method seems to be the most natural method to those PU2s who alread hae highl deeloped conersational skills. &aing read the posts aboe I0e r ealised I probabl engage in a game that is prett close to Jugglers (happ to accept a correction from an of the PU2s who hae seen Juggler and mself) in that I usuall steer the cono to mself>mutual interests (in a non 28= wa) prett 4uickl. I also find mself increasingl going for a relatiel unambiguous 3'I earl in the sarge. *ournoBadmirer and I were working a mixed set recentl with an &M. target and I -closed the target b making an 3'I within about two minutes of the opener, based on noticing her appeal. %his approach I am finding increasingl effectie as m number of successful approaches increases, so I figure it is the conersational confidence, or abilit to manipulate and hook conersational partners into our own communicatie direction, that forms the basis of the success of this approach. 1ow, I come from a background of commencing m PU stud with basic knowledge of 33, followed up with the 1. I would be interested in knowing what deelopmental pathwas other PU2s who profess the 7uggler method hae followed. Peace, &unter3 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&4 of 79), Read 177& times Conf: !d"anced rom:afcpua 3ohnlamonttennis-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 0':09 !$
7uggler doesnt like c?f5 most of what 7uggler method stands for seems good. one thing i disagree ='$P!"%"!* with is a few months ago he told us to delete 2!! materials we hae on 2!P&2. that was 3. knowledge about being alpha is mandator to PU2 lifestle. can someone use * 21 Juggler $ethod5 b ecause $$ doesnt seem congruent with me ? 33 sucks shit for me because i beliee it is "%2. the 1"/ /$ method has some good insights, but it has limited application. i also find $$ is limited to clubs or F setsN in datime PU (which are rare.) so $rsexEu1*= could onl get awa with extensie "9ing because he was a 12%U#2!5 anwa, i think he0s good more for his attitudes than for his actual 6techni4ues ? methods6
6 the game don0t wait but im so tight i can wait for the game. 6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&5 of 79), Read 1778 times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 0':28 !$
afcpua wrote+ 7uggler doesnt like c?f5 &e thinks it0s fine as long as the girl is plaing along. Personall, I hardl use it at all. most of what 7uggler method stands for seems good. one thing i disagree ='$P!"%"!* with is a few months ago he told us to delete 2!! materials we hae on 2!P&2. that was 3. knowledge about being alpha is mandator to PU2 lifestle. afcpua, ou 3' crack me up with his whole 6mandator to PU2 lifestle6 bit. &ahaD $ost 238 people are wa too into the whole 6alpha6 thing. I$', it0s a useful frame for some stles and for some sitautions but it0s not absolutel necessar. I no longer think about what is or is not 6alpha6. I was too for a long time mostl because 238 strongl encouraged it so I got used to it while I was a beginner. 2lso, I hae natural friends who are er alpha in their PU stles and social behaior so I picked up a lot of speaking and bod language habits from them without een tring to. 2ll of which are habits I hae dropped since m workshop with Juggler and I find it a lot better because people are a lot less threatened b me. can someone use * 21 Juggler $ethod5 because $$ doesnt seem congruent with
me ? 33 sucks shit for me because i beliee it is "%2. the 1"/ /$ method has some good insights, but it has limited application. i also find $$ is limited to clubs or F setsN in datime PU (which are rare.) I think it0s less important what $"%&' ou are using and more that ou 7ust get out there and do 3'$"%&I1. 2ll the methods ou mention aboe will gie ou at least 3'$" results if ou reall commit ourself to it and don0t talk ourself out of it through analsis. so $rsexEu1*= could onl get awa with extensie "9ing because he was a 12%U#2!5 anwa, i think he0s good more for his attitudes than for his actual 6techni4ues ? methods6 %hat0s the case with most naturals. I know them I#! and the %2!; like $r3exEu1*= sounds in his posts. It0s actuall kind of funn. afcpua, I think ou should tr to make some friends who are natural PU20s. I think that would be great for our game and it would help ou be less analtical about this sub7ect. -P< TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&7 of 79), Read 1547 times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 10:05 !$
3exP< *ou0re turning into Juggler0s official spokes person...lol &e still hasn0t posted the structure of conersation thing he promised all of us workshop gus, can ou go bug him about it O) man I don0t care how la: he is, it0s no excuse, a promise is a promiseD @ 6I0e cum to liberate all who hae not been liberated.6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&8 of 79), Read 1&52 times Conf: !d"anced rom:?i"e a244970hotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 05:15 *$
@, !ighten up capitol . &ie
'n E>B>CF BC+CR+CC 2$, @enragon wrote+ ... man I don0t care how la: he is, it0s no excuse, a promise is a promiseD @ TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (&9 of 79), Read 1782 times Conf: !d"anced rom:gunitch gunitch187charter-net Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 04:05 !$
'n E>B>CF F+CA+CC 2$, afcpua wrote+ %he 1"/ /$ method has some good insights, but it has limited application. If it aint something i posted or the gunwitch method formhandle hosts i didnt write it, the one a auseduction is legitimate as well. 3eeral gus here hae inite onl groups that hae it up and ma hae altered it. If ou are referring to m recent erbal methods, its 7ust a small piece of what i do, and isnt reall a 1"/ gunwitch method. %here is no 1"/ gunwitch method.
6make the ho sa no6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (40 of 79), Read 1'94 times Conf: !d"anced rom:@assius cassiusfore"erhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 08:01 *$
Just an obseration =raig, the eliminidate gu, suggested this when we met. 8I#3%+ #outines &"!P ou, ... B 3"='1+ #outines &U#% ou, ... C !23%+ #outines go back to &"!PI1 ou, ...
B 8unn how this structure gets into eerthing, and when used is a powerful wa of making people see things our wa =assius 6learn something new eer da6 I like his analsis of it. People ma recall that I did PU#" natural conersation and bodlanguage for M straight months before eer using a routine. 3o for me, perhaps I0m coming from a frame where conersational skills are 233U$". -% TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (41 of 79), Read 1&&5 times Conf: !d"anced rom:.%lerDurden t%lerdurden9982hotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 07:'2 *$
wow:er::::... nice thread.. I0ll check it oer later.
-% TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (42 of 79), Read 1&24 times Conf: !d"anced rom:$anifestis' 63min'%ahoo-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 14, 200' 08:49 *$
i0e #"2 a lot of 7uggler method but haen0t 3""1 it in action...there are so man but what is the "33"1=" of Juggler $ethod5 I0e heard that it is generating rapport...but how could u get las with rapport5 oes he phase shift into sexual phase or anthing like that5 or is it 7ust talking and chatting... i understand cock>funn...ss, gunwitch, etc...but what makes Juggler0s method work5 /hat0s it power5 I know he0s coming out with a book...anone know when Juggler is going to come out with his new book5 manifestisF
6lie our realit...6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (4' of 79), Read 1&04 times Conf: !d"anced rom:nner@alm Date:ednesda%, !pril 15, 200' 01:00 !$
'n E>B>CF M+A+CC P$, $anifestisF wrote+ i0e #"2 a lot of 7uggler method but haen0t 3""1 it in action...there are so man but what is the "33"1=" of Juggler $ethod5 I0e heard that it is generating rapport...but how could u get las with rapport5 oes he phase shift into sexual phase or anthing like that5 or is it 7ust talking and chatting... i understand cock>funn...ss, gunwitch, etc...but what makes Juggler0s method work5 /hat0s it power5 I know he0s coming out with a book...anone know when Juggler is going to come out with his new book5 manifestisF 6lie our realit...6 I0m sure we0ll be the first to know. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Discussion topic: Juggler method (4& of 79), Read 1'94 times Conf: !d"anced rom:mmasters antifluaol-com Date:ednesda%, !pril 15, 200' 02:42 !$
I 7ust wanted to be the Cth post. aD 1ow where0s Juggler at. +) mmasters TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% (44 of 79), Read 1'88 times
Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:ednesda%, !pril 15, 200' 04:10 !$
ate Posted+ HCCB>BH>CR CB+R+CC 2$ "3% 2uthor+ 7uggler unknown email address 3ub7ect+ roup %o understand the group approach ou need to first understand something about regular, blind, neer spoke to her, she has not winked at ou approaches. %hen ou can scale up from there. $an gus make the consistent mistake of belieing an approach should allow the beggining of a fift-fift conersation. ut most girls, experiencing a stranger, are not going to proide anwhere near CQ. $ore like BCQ. 3he0ll answer 4uestions with lines like 6fine6 or 6It0s a girl0s night out6 - useless comments like that. *ou hae to get her warmed up before she will gie back more substance. 3he has to get used to the idea of ou. %his period can take a few minutes. $eanwhile, ou hae to keep things going. $ost gus stall. %he are 7ust plain, not used to doing this tpe of work. It0s akin to being a on stage b ourself. it ma look like ou are with someone but ou are in fact all alone. $ost gus get freaked, don0t hae material, lack confidence or whateer - the can not do it. it is not something that happens in their dail life. eelop material which can stand alone or deelop some routines which hae the illusion of needing support but in fact stand alone - er powerful. I0ll explain more detail on that later. %o return to the sub7ect of groups. *ou hae all of these challenges onl magnified. 3uddenl ou hae H or or BC people from which ou hae to keep attention. 2nd the percentage dnamic is still in effect. 3o if ou work a set of three the ratio is now HGCQ-FCQ. 3eems impossible to proide HGCQ *ou are 7ust one man. /ork it. et as close as possible. e big. =ommit all the wa. 2nthing less than BCCQ will get ou killed. 'ka, not reall killed. Just humiliated in front of a group, which for some people is worse than death.
Use sweeping gestures. 3low down. Use routines which allow illusionar input. o not expect help from the group or a wing. *ou are surrounded b people, but ou effectiel are all alone. ut ou will win them oer with our humor and charm. e prepared to make man new friends. u a bigger calender. e read to one on one the group0s beautiful women. *ou will succeed. 'nce ou are in with the group ou will be returned to the AC-BCQ scenario again when ou one-one the groups cute girl. 3heeesh...more work... but ou are in - in babD 2fter ou turn around a few skepticle groups into liking ou it will gie ou great confidence and understanding. *ou ma arrie at a new leel of consciousness. 'f course there is much more to working groups than this. If this topic continues I will post more. -Juggler TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% (45 of 79), Read 1'22 times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:ednesda%, !pril 15, 200' 11:15 *$
3exP<, what ou posted was Juggler0s group theor. It0s an interesting theor, but what does it hae to do with the topic of this thread5 I think the bros wants to know how one can go from an approach to a fuck 7ust b simpl haing interesting conersations without an planned routines nor transitions. $abe it0s best to let Juggler explain this himself. *ou0e alread said too much in his behae. If he doesn0t care to defend his own method. %here is no use for an of us to do it for him. @ 6I0e cum to liberate all who hae not been liberated.6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% (47 of 79), Read 1295 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:.hursda%, !pril 17, 200' 02:18 !$
@enragon wrote+ I think the bros wants to know how one can go from an approach to a fuck 7ust b simpl haing interesting conersations without an planned routines nor transitions. $abe it0s best to let Juggler explain this himself. *ou0e alread said too much in his behae. If he doesn0t care to defend his own method. %here is no use for an of us to do it for him. @, I don0t think it0s a 4uestion of Juggler defending his method since nobod is attacking it. % wanted to discuss it, presumabl, to learn more about it, and I think that is an admirable goal since Juggler0s method is still not that well understood on this 1. 3ure, it would be nice if Juggler himself would 7oin in and help us out, but the archie is there. I think that, particularl in lieu of this book he keeps promising, it is our responsibilit to inestigate and stud his method for ourseles, and I think that0s what seeral of us are doing. 2s to the 4uestion of how to go from an approach to a la with 7ust interesting conersation, I sometimes forget that a lot of gus here are not and hae neer personall known an interesting conersationalist. %hese gus probabl hae little idea 7ust how controlling someone like that can be. If ou can be interesting, people will let ou be in control, and this is our fundamental goal in PU. Ultimatel, ou don0t want to control the conersation as much as the woman0s behaior, but man of the 238 methods start with control of the conersation as a wa of getting to this goal. #outines, in fact, attempt to do this in a similar wa to how Juggler does it, b making ou appear to be interesting. %he problem, howeer, is that a routine will onl work if the chick (or group of chicks) actuall finds our particular delier of the routine to be interesting. If not, the will not gie ou control of the conersation unless the are desperate or ou hae something else up our sleee which is er strong. /hile, for some gus in some situations with some chicks, routines will work, I$", for the best 4ualit chicks, unless someone has the delier, social proof, and other toolkit of a gu like $ster, r outines alone are not going to cut it. Juggler0s method includes seeral tactics designed to maintain control of the conersation in a much more flexible and spontaneous wa. &is conersational toolkit consists of primaril two tpes of things. %he first are was of being interesting and the second are was of controlling the conersation in a wa that specificall will lead it to culminate in sex. oth of these things together, I$', constitute his method. 2nd tpicall, he will tr to combine both aspects in a single techni4ue. %his is what makes his stle so expressie. ut other than stle, I don0t think that most of the actual methods Juggler uses are that different from the ones other people on 238 use. %hings like push-pull (a.k.a. BCB), kino, 3'I, rapport, and others keep popping up eerwhere. Personall, I think that if people understand these kinds of things and know the underling structure of seduction, then stle doesn0t matter. %hat0s also wh I beliee that people should, at some point as the are learning this stuff, start deeloping their own personal stle rather than alwas coping someone else0s. I still think it is important to stud and understand other people0s methods since one can gain insights about the structure of seduction b doing so, but ultimatel, I think, the end goal is for eerone to be able to express his own personal stle in his PUs.
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Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% (48 of 79), Read 1285 times Conf: !d"anced rom:e*D+ alphasmilodonhotmail-com Date:.hursda%, !pril 17, 200' 0&:49 !$
@enragon wrote in message news+GCFM.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com... 3exP<, what ou posted was Juggler0s group theor. It0s an interesting theor, but what does it hae to do with the topic of this thread5 #e-read the sub7ect line of the thread+ JU!"# $"%&'. 2lso, note that man of the replies to the thread mention the topic of groups. I think the bros wants to know how one can go from an approach to a fuck 7ust b simpl haing interesting conersations without an planned routines nor transitions. I think it0s been expressed er well in recent posts b mself and others. In %&I3 thread we hae talked about 3'I0s. In m workshop post I included a lot of information about the conersational structure (statements, threading, high-points, timing, etc), 3'I0s, bod language. %he onl things I think of right now that I '10% think hae been discussed enough are disclosure of relationships (which ! coered in his post I beliee) and amplification (which I personall find hard to explain in text). /hat would ou like to talk about that ou feel has not been coered ade4uatel5 $abe it0s best to let Juggler explain this himself. *ou0e alread said too much in his behae. I can understand that it might seem that w a to ou but I am not 7ust parroting Juggler here (other than m repost of the groups material which I thought was releant to the discussion). %he method is getting me closes, and I am therefore perfectl confident in expressing m iews on it "9"1 I8 Juggler doesn0t do it himself in this particular thread (which he is free to do or not do as he pleases). 2s far as I am concerned, anthing that gets me laid I hae carte blanche to post about on 238 if I so choose. -P< TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% (49 of 79), Read 1274 times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:.hursda%, !pril 17, 200' 09:4' !$
/hat would ou like to talk about that ou feel has not been coered ade4uatel5
2ll the methods ou mentioned are great for midgame. I0e done them, and the work. /ith street approaches, if ou open with 7ust a random opener, and tr to initiate a conersation with statements, in m experience, the & will not een gie ou a chance to continue. 8or example, in the context of sarging at a women0s clothing store, or girls walking b at the mall, the & will mabe gie ou a one 4uick response then walk awa from ou. I0e done hundreds of sarging doing this since the workshop at all tpes of contexts. /ith stationar targets, it a good wa to get in and sta in if ou0re smooth enough. /ith moing targets, it almost neer works. 2nd it0s not 7ust me, I0e seen it happen to Juggler as well with m own H ees. 2s far as I am concerned, anthing that gets me laid I hae carte blanche to post about on 238 if I so choose. I0m not knocking on our post. I know ou hae game. It 7ust our posts aren0t context specific. 2nd it paints a ros picture which isn0t true, 6as long as ou ou do statements, 3'Is, amplification, ...blah, blah, blah...eerthing will work itself out6 /hich is the case with most bros who post here. *ou ma hae gotten laid with what ou learned from Juggler with a women waiting for a ride outside an airport, or a girl sitting b the bar looking to talk to interesting gus. ut there are all tpes of sarging situations out there, and until ou get out there on the field to do them, ou won0t reali:e where the sticking points are with this method. I0e done hundreds of approaches with PU#" Juggler $ethod in 7ust about eer context ou can think of, and I know where the problems are. 2nd it alwas either in the beginning where ou 7ust can0t get the & want to sta to continue interacting with ou, or ou find it difficualt to transition to sexual closes. In midgame it works great, but it0s no use if ou can0t een get to the midgame, or ou can0t transition from there to a full close. /e can talk about this more on I$ or on the phone. I0m not debating with ou dude. I0m interested in working with ou to find a wa to make this method more workable in more tpes of situations, as I0m alread doing with !. 2nd we can onl do that after we are willing to be honest with our field experiences, and face the fact that what we hae so far is not enough. @ 6I0e cum to liberate all who hae not been liberated.6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% (50 of 79), Read 11&& times Conf: !d"anced rom:?unter thirdmarshallhotmail-com Date:aturda%, !pril 19, 200' 02:'2 !$
3exP<, thanks for our reposts of Juggler method, I0e found then reall useful. % and man others from the 6$ster 3chool6 adocate stringing routines together as a wa of oercoming Juggler0s properl identified AC>BC problem....now I0e field tested routines extensiel and hae come up with three conclusions+ B. #outines are a !'% "%%"# than stalling, so for #28=s the should be considered a ='#" %''!O
H. 8or routines to be #"2!!* "88"=%I9" in creating the 2 of 8$2= the hae to be practised 2 !'%O F. 8or mself and I suspect a lot of other adanced conersationalists the effort of practising the delier of killer routines is not worth the results, in other words I get better results deliering animated free form conersation and mirroring the ongoing realit. 'n the other hand, I find the arious paradigms of $$, namel 8$2=, neg theor, group theor, cat theor etc. fucking gold during almost all sarges. %he sit there like a master program keeping me alert to the unfolding social dnamic and permitting me to keep the social hierarch of groups faourable to the sarge. If I had the time and passion of a % I would stud routines for the heck of it and mabe end up with a better game, I don0t know. 8or now, I think Juggler is great with his 3'I-based approach and simple openers>conersational gambits. $ comment is that PU2 is not about saing one stle is better than the other but rather knowing man stles so that ou0re ersatile. 2nd I still can0t see how I can successfull sarge As and BCs in a sociall-proofed club without $$. +) If Juggler can 7ump in now and %"!! $" &'/ &" '"3 I would be, w ell, oer7oedDDDD Peace, &unter3 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% (A %et another repost) (51 of 79), Read 1147 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:aturda%, !pril 19, 200' 0&:'1 !$
&unter3 wrote+ B. #outines are a !'% "%%"# than stalling, so for #28=s the should be considered a ='#" %''!O H. 8or routines to be #"2!!* "88"=%I9" in creating the 2 of 8$2= the hae to be practised 2 !'%O F. 8or mself and I suspect a lot of other adanced conersationalists the effort of practising the delier of killer routines is not worth the results, in other words I get better results deliering animated free form conersation and mirroring the ongoing realit. I agree with almost all of this except for our conclusion in statement B that routines should be a core tool. *ou admit in statement H that routines won0t be reall effectie unless ou practice them a lot, and I would suggest that this practice time would be better spent learning to actuall become a decent conersationalist. %he problem with skipping this step and spending all our time learning routines is that ou cannot script an entire PU. 2s soon as ou get in a situation for which ou don0t hae a routine, ou are going to be at a strong disadantage and probabl blow the PU. I look at routines from the exact opposite direction. I$', routines should onl be something that people deelop in the field as the find out what works for them. "en Juggler seems to use 6routines6 in the sense that there are lines, stories, and techni4ues that he uses oer and oer again in
similar situations. ut he didn0t find these things on the Internet, he found them in the field b improising and seeing what worked for him and what didn0t. I beliee that this is how people should be thinking about routines. 2nd I still can0t see how I can successfull sarge As and BCs in a sociall-proofed club without $$. +) If Juggler can 7ump in now and %"!! $" &'/ &" '"3 I would be, well, oer7oedDDDD $$0s group theor is not a method, it is a theor, and a lot what it sas are 7ust obserations about people that happen to usuall be true. Just because Juggler didn0t learn these things from $ster doesn0t mean that he doesn0t know them. In fact, I think that both of them understand groups 4uite well, the 7ust happen to use different methods to take adantage of this knowledge. %ake a look at Juggler0s post on social proof, reposted below for our reading pleasure. ---In general the more beautiful the girl the better. ut 3pecialist makes a good point here which is often ignored. It is not 7ust being seen with a girl which demonstrates social proof. It is our abilit to get her laughing and obiousl en7oing our presence. It is best not to think about social pr oof too much. *ou will be further ahead in the long run deeloping our abilities to approach and make a woman happ ou are there. %hen social proof will 7ust happen and not be something ou hae to actiel pursue. 2lso, ou ma find that bringing a girl with ou for social proof will not work as well as meeting girls there. 2 new girl will be much more interested and captiated b ou. &ere is an example. I am talking with two er attractie girls. I take a break from them to turn around and speak with two other girls... mabe 0s. I do this all the time. 1ot part of a scheme. Just being outgoing with eerbod. /ell, these two non-attractie girls were prett fun and I liked them immediatel (not in a sexual wa of course). 2nwa, we are talking and m interrupts and tells me the two hot girls want to know something. I 7ust put m finger up to tell him 7ust a minute I am in a conersation here. 3o eentuall I turn back around and the first thing out of the hot girls on the left0s mouth was to ask me if I am seeing anbod. 9er bold sign of interest. 3o of course I gae her the girlfriend test.
%hought about it later, there was probabl a lot going on in her mind. I was sort of demonstrating social proof with the unattractie girls while at the same time doing a neg hit on the hot girl and a take -awa.....all that stuff that man gus here like to break down. ut the point is, ou do not hae to figure it all out and force it to work for ou. Just be outgoing and chat it up with man people and it will work for ou unconsciousl. %his will leae ou to concentrate on the important part of our game... being seductie. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% (A %et another repost) (52 of 79), Read 1111 times Conf: !d"anced rom:?unter thirdmarshallhotmail-com Date:unda%, !pril 20, 200' 12:47 !$
*eah, 7uggler is basicall saing be outgoing and conersational and the 3P will come of its own olition...the breaking down that $s teaches howeer - for this little PU2 at least - has helped speed up the process of internalising sociall proofed bahaiours 2 !'%. Just being conersational doesn0t cut it, unless ou are sociall proofed b looks>status etc. in the first place. I mean, the 7uggler repost ou 7usted added demonstrated a pure $$ stle club behaiour....without knowing the break-down how will a student>aspiring PU2 6get it65 I$' 7uggler method is an 2921=" concept of PU that is best suited to those with strong conersation skills and a master of group dnamics. Its eas to forget the l eel most #28=s are at when ou haen0t been there ourself for a few ears....anwa, its all aluable and I think this thread has teased out some great stuff. Peace, &unter3 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% ( %et another repost) (5' of 79), Read 1119 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:unda%, !pril 20, 200' 01:22 !$
&unter3 wrote+ *eah, 7uggler is basicall saing be outgoing and conersational and the 3P will come of its own olition...the breaking down that $s teaches howeer - for this little PU2 at least - has helped speed up the process of internalising sociall proofed bahaiours 2 !'%. 2greed. I think knowing the theor behind the practice helps a lot. Just being conersational doesn0t cut it, unless ou are sociall proofed b looks>status etc. in the first place. I think Juggler would disagree since most people sa he is a generall nondescript-looking fellow. ut then again, I think his skills are wa beond those of most gus on this board, and, in an case, he probabl doesn0t PU
in ultra-trend nightclubs. I doubt the hae man of those in 2nn 2rbor anwa. I$', there0s no reason not to use eer tool that ou can find and with which ou feel comfortable. I$' 7uggler method is an 2921=" concept of PU that is best suited to those with strong conersation skills and a master of group dnamics. %hat0s an interesting statement because I hae alwas said that $$ is an adanced PU method that is best suited for gus who alread hae strong B-on-B seduction skills. /hile I would agree that man of Juggler0s conersational tactics could be considered adanced, I think that at least a decent understanding of B-on-B cono skills is re4uired in order to effectiel work groups. I al so beliee that Juggler has a lot of information that will help gus at all leels improe both their cono skills and their PUs in general. $ost of the posted stuff about $$ leaes out B-on-B cono, and, I think because of this, a lot of inexperienced gus used to tr to 7ump right into stock routines without et haing a clue how to PU. $abe if $ster himself is b our side teaching ou this will work, but for gus on the Internet who are all alone, I don0t think it will get them er far. Its eas to forget the leel most #28=s are at when ou haen0t been there ourself for a few ears. It0s not that eas to forgetD I still iidl remember m first cold PU almost G ears ago and m strateg at that time was basicall talk about common interests to create rapport. ranted, I had spent a lot of time hanging out with some relatiel skilled PU2s and I alread had prett a decent knowledge of interpersonal pscholog, but I had no real method other than approach, gain rapport, close. /hile it is true that a lot of gus don0t een hae this part down et, I certainl don0t think those gus should be tring to work groups with routines, negs, social proof and other tactics. $uch better to learn to hae a decent conersation first. ...anwa, its all aluable and I think this thread has teased out some great stuff. 2bsolutel. %his has been a great thread. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% ( %et another rep (5& of 7 9), Read 1090 times Conf: !d"anced rom:+!BC aneus%ahoo-com Date:unda%, !pril 20, 200' 12:00 *$
&aing read this thread, I hae three 4uestions for anone extensiel familiar with Juggler method. B. oes he suggest approaching the target directl, or does he suggest starting with one of the less conersationall inoled members of the group and working our wa to the target. oth hae been suggested, but there was no clarification. 2lso
incidentall, does whether there are gus in the group make an difference5 H. /hat are some of the specific techni4ues Juggler uses to seamlessl control>manipulate conersation5 /ould it be possible to incorporate such techni4ues into other frameworks as well5 /ill the effectiel merge with $$, 33, unwitch, =?8 etc...5 /h or wh not5 F. /hat hae our experiences been with incorporating parts from other methods (=?8, 3 3, unwitch, $$ etc...) into Juggler method5 /hat works uniersall, what doesn0t5 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% ( %et another rep (54 of 7 9), Read 1079 times Conf: !d"anced rom:afcpua 3ohnlamonttennis-com Date:unda%, !pril 20, 200' 0':&' *$
G ears for softcontrol. do ou consider ourself PU2 softcontrol5 i hope there is 1''* out there that plas the game for G ears and is still PU2. that would discourage me greatl. 6 the game don0t wait but im so tight i can wait for the game. 6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% ( %et another rep (55 of 7 9), Read 1044 times Conf: !d"anced rom:softcontrol sftcntrlhotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 21, 200' 02:'8 !$
afcpua wrote+ G ears for softcontrol. do ou consider ourself PU2 softcontrol5 ';, let me gie ou four possible answers+ B. *es H. 1o F. *es, but I suck at PU E. It depends, sometimes es, and sometimes no /hich of these is correct5 /ell, I would sa that it is e4uall true to sa that all of them are correct as it is to sa that none of them are correct. 2nd I am not tring to sa that I mean that number XE is correctO I mean that statement literall. %he realit is that most gus who other people would consider to be PU2s don0t reall consider themseles as such. 2t l east, that has been m experience, and I think ou would find the same results ourself if ou read through the archies. 2 lot of gus who clearl know what the are doing flat out den that the are PU2s, and I haen0t seen one example of a gu who has been around for a while calling himself one.
/hen ou understand the game, ou understand that there is no such thing as a 6PU2.6 It0s an ideal figure that roughl describes a phenomenon, but not a real person. %here are onl gus with more skills and gus with less skills. 3kills are relatie, to man things, but actions are concrete. *ou will also understand that PU is incredibl difficult and ridiculousl eas at the same time. %hat0s the paradox of it, and I think that0s one reason wh gus don0t like to tout themseles as 6PU2s6 around here. 2s to our 4uestion about how long I hae doing this, I first became aware of the game about M ears ago. ut it has been a slow process for me. %he pull back towards 28= life has been, at times, much stronger than the pull towards PU2 life. I spent some of those ears almost completel out of the game. %here0s a lot of reasons for this which I think will make m experience atpical for gus currentl on this 1. 3till, I don0t think ou can go from knowing nothing at all about the game to a full-fledged PU2 in less that a few ears. I hae another post wherein I break down the stages through which I hae been, and I0ll post it once the !# restriction passes. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% ( %et another rep (57 of 7 9), Read 10&4 times Conf: !d"anced rom:?unter thirdmarshallhotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 21, 200' 0&:21 !$
%he full moe to PU2 (as defined b form in P2I#) takes about one ear I$" working our game at least once a week (I0m talking E- approaches a night). 3o we0re talking HC 238-aware approaches N reading online and occassionall meeting other 238ers I#!. Plus after I considered mself PU2 I did the $$ workshop, which showed me how much further the game could progress.... I full beliee though that a dedicated student could master the game in a f ew months if the made it their life0s work...that seems to hae been %0s approach. It0s the old rule, it0s not the time but the concentration of actiit within that time that counts. Peace, &unter3 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% ( %et another rep (58 of 7 9), Read 1001 times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:$onda%, !pril 21, 200' 02:05 *$
B. oes he suggest approaching the target directl, or does he suggest starting with one of the less conersationall inoled members of the group and
working our wa to the target. oth hae been suggested, but there was no clarification. 2lso incidentall, does whether there are gus in the group make an difference5 *ou0re anal:ing too much here, what ou need to do is 7ust go out and tr it both was. 8rom m experience of sarging with Juggler, he does not hae an set wa of doing things. It0s eas to structure things out on the board so people know what ou0re talking about. ut when ou0re in the field, what ou do is totall dependant on the situation at hand. 2pproach a lot of groups and pratice establishing rapport with eerone in the group to deelop a natural instict on group dnamic. 'nl through doing that ou will be able to answer our own 4uesiton. H. /hat are some of the specific techni4ues Juggler uses to seamlessl control>manipulate conersation5 &e makes spontaneous statements to carr on the conersation. %hen he builds the rest of the conersation base on the other person0s reponse. &e relates and amplifies them. %he downside of doing this is when she doesn0t repond well initiall there0s not much ou can do about it, since ou0re looking to build a conersation off her response, and there0s no response to be built on. 8rom m experience with him, when this happens, he simpl e7ects. /ould it be possible to incorporate such techni4ues into other frameworks as well5 /ill the effectiel merge with $$, 33, unwitch, =?8 etc...5 /h or wh not5 on0t worr about 0techni4ues0 or 0mergin methods0. %hese things are 7ust packaged products people made up to make mone. If ou eer want to get good at our game, what ou reall need is+ B) knowing ourself, our own strengths and w eaknesses, and ou won0t reall know that until ou hae a lot of field experience H) 3eek was to improe our sticking points. *ou can seek inspiration from reading the board, sarge with another PU2 and obsere what he does, or 7ust simpl allow our unconsious to gie ou new ideas on what to do. %he most important thing is once ou get an idea ou go out and tr itD F) Practice "9"#*/&"#" with "9"#*'1". 1ot 7ust with girls, not 7ust when ou0re sarging. *ou should become the kinda of gu who is able to chat up an stranger ou meet, or open an tpe groups at an situation. /hat ou want to become is a 12%#U2! PU2. 1ot a person who0s constantl struggling with 0techni4ues0 and 0methods0
F. /hat hae our experiences been with incorporating parts from other methods (=?8, 33, unwitch, $$ etc...) into Juggler method5 /hat works uniersall, what doesn0t5 I find using spontaneous trance patterns while relating>amplifing the other person0s conersation (Juggler 3tle) a 9"#* powerful combination. *ou get both / I" ? ""P rapport. $ adice to ou is this is not about mixing what methods with w hat method. It0s er limiting to think in terms of 0methods0. 8ocus on gaining field experience and discoer our own sticking points and what ma or ma not work for ou. I know some bros here want to make sure the know "9"#*%&I1 before the go out and tr them. %hat is 7ust not gonna happen. *our game does not get better from reading other people0s stuff. *ou game onl gets better when ou put ourself out there in the unknown to explore new possibilities for ourself. It takes courage and dedication, but the 12%U#2! PU2 ou will become is w orth eer second of our effort. @ 6I0e cum to liberate all who hae not been liberated.6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Juggler $ethod roup .heor% ( %et another rep (59 of 7 9), Read 1004 times Conf: !d"anced rom:@loud9 cloud9"irtualhotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 21, 200' 02:&& *$
@enragon wrote+ F) Practice "9"#*/&"#" with "9"#* '1". 1ot 7ust with girls, not 7ust when ou0re sarging. *ou should become the kinda of gu who is able to chat up an stranger ou meet, or open an tpe groups at an situation. /hat ou want to become is a natural PU2. 1ot a person who0s constantl struggling with 0techni4ues0 and 0methods0 @, that is unconscious competence. *ou must know of the four stages of learning+ I - unconscious incompetence II - conscious incompetence III- conscious competence I9 - inconscious competence *ou gus keep pushing Juggler and dissing $$ or other tactics, but in fact ou adocate stage I9 without proiding a roadmap to get there. Unless ou0re natural (but ou0re not, because ou w ouldn0t be on the board), ou hae to fuckin !"2#1. !ook up the stages of learning in an context, not 7ust sarging, the0re alwa the same. 3o, when I see ou dissing $$ group merging (which is stage III) and adocate 6open an tpe groups at an situation6 (stage I9), U% %&" 32$" %&I1 2!%'"%&"#, I reall beging to wonder if our 7udgement is not clouded at least to the amount ou paid Juggler for his workshop.
Juggler is either natural or on stage I9, but it doesn0t seem like he has an method to get a gu from stage II and morph him into stage I9. /hich means what5 - that he0s not the greatest teacher, his approach lacks the methodolog of learning. I will drie this point home some more, ou know about @en @enragon so this should make sense to ou. /e hae a gu and a group of fie &s, with arious b.shields. u is stage I+ - he walks into the set, and his enthusiasm, innocence, 6beginner0s mind6 takes him a fair wa into chatting the set. ut he lacks understanding of what he0s doing, so except for 6getting luck6, he0s bound to fail. u is stage II+ - he goes, 6oh man, that set is too hard for me to crack, I need wings and I0m generall not in that league et. I0ll let this one pass.6 u in stage III+ - 6gotta merge some shit here6. &e goes and grabs two social proof babes, forms a group and then merges with the fie targets. 'r high7acks another group and merges that with the -set. u in stage I9+ - I am @en. I am *in and *ang. 1othing phases me. Poor little fie &s, here I come to gie ou good feelings. I find using spontanrous trance patterns while relating>amplifing the other person0s conersation (Juggler 3tle) a 9"#* pow erful combination. *ou get both /I" ? ""P rapport. as I was saing...I am @en...I0e come to gie ou good feelings (stage I9). =loudA TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (70 of 79), Read 1010 times Conf: !d"anced rom:t%le cpoles100hotmail-com Date:$onda%, !pril 21, 200' 02:'8 *$
Just spent a few das with Juggler, who crashed at m house. ot to understand a lot of things about his method, wh it works, and how it works for me. 2nd also wh he is one of m faorite gus I hae eer met in this communit. In m mind, Juggler0s stle is '! for datime walkups,and for building rapport. It0s er casual and under the radar and genuine. 'n the other hand, though Juggler has a sstem for closing, I haen0t seen him or anone else demonstrate or teach it, so in m mind, the flaw with straight Juggler stle, is that ou can not choose 21*
target and gie ourself a '' guarantee of a close b going 6pure Juggler.6 "speciall if ou are going after super-hot women who hae lots of options. In m experience, if I don0t pull out m alue-demonstrating routines, I am not going to stand out in her mind and guarantee a strong, no-flaking close. I wish this wasn0t true, but I$", it is. %hat said, I hae not et done all the steps of Juggler method. &ere, in m interpretation, are the steps, from w atching him and talking with him. I. 'pen b telling a stor or making a situational comment. "xchange situational stories. 2sk '1" er open-ended 4uestion to get more information if necessar. 2ssume comfortable rapport, and get a nice exchange of stories going. II. et deep. 2sk an open-ended 4uestion that can get personal, like, 63o what0s our stor56 III. 8ind out their relationship situation (een if it means asking directl if the hae a bofriend), discuss our relationship situation, and discuss relationships in general. I9. $ake an 3'I 9. 2rrange a meeting =Powles TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (71 of 79), Read 900 times Conf: !d"anced rom:?unter thirdmarshallhotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 22, 200' 08:1& !$
In m experience, if I don0t pull out m alue-demonstrating routines, I am not going to stand out in her mind and guarantee a strong, no-flaking close. I wish this wasn0t true, but I$", it is. I think our post is on the mone =P, in that Juggler method is best suited to sarging &s outside of the highl sociall-proofed enironments of clubs>eents...I disagree that ou need to pull out routines to guarantee strong closes in normal I#! situations like beaches, cafes etc...sometimes the risk of seeming contried can outweigh the benefits in these enironments...haing seen ou do our shit in clubs though I agree with ou in the context of 6charged6 enironments and as I0e said before nothing compares with $$>routine based sarging in effectieness within highl sociall-proofed enironments. Peace,
&unter3 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (72 of 79), Read 89' times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:.uesda%, !pril 22, 200' 09:4& !$
Juggler method is best suited to sarging &s outside of the highl sociall-proofed enironments of clubs>eents I hae to agree with this. I hae not et been able to get I1 with Juggler stle statement>4uestion openings and follow ups at the tpe of enironments ou described. /hich is understandable, I don0t think Juggler een go to those places O) &aing that said, this tpe of approach stle does work with &s who are 7ust hanging out at clubs. %he go there 0cause their friends are there. It does not work with the snubb high bitch shield &s and the high energ wild ? cra: ones, the reason is simple, the0re not there to hae conersations with people. 2nd most of them aren0t good at holding conersations, that0s wh the go to clubs, the don0t need to talk to anone. clubs>eents...I disagree that ou need to pull out routines to guarantee strong closes in normal I#! situations like beaches, cafes etc...sometimes the risk of seeming contried can outweigh the benefits in these enironments. %ru dat I0e said before nothing compares with $$>routine based sarging in effectieness within highl sociall-proofed enironments. 8or me, after getting so used to Juggler stle approaching, tring to pull out routines feels so weird and incongruent. I went to a club on sunda and didn0t hae much success with J$, then I tried to switch back to m old =?8 ? routines stuff...and it completel totall ? absolutel killed m statesD Incongruenc big timeDDD J$ ? $$ is like water and oil. I0e et found a wa to blend the H. Juggler doesn0t beliee it can be done. It0s almost like a choice between the force and the darkside (hehe). 2none out there who hae success with it please share O) @ 6I0e cum to liberate all who hae not been liberated.6
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Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (7' of 79), Read 9'' times Conf: !d"anced rom: 3uggler 3ugglerseductionarts-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 22, 200' 12:20 *$
'n E>HB>CF H+FM+HH P$, 3tle wrote+ Just spent a few das with Juggler, who crashed at m house. ot to understand a lot of things about his method, wh it works, and how it works for me. 2nd also wh he is one of m faorite gus I hae eer met in this communit. %hanks. *ou know I feel the same wa. I wish we had discussed m methods more. ut it0s hard when we hang out not to spend all our time 7ust haing fun. I. 'pen b telling a stor or making a situational comment. "xchange situational stories. 2sk '1" er open-ended 4uestion to get more information if necessar. 2ssume comfortable rapport, and get a nice exchange of stories going. 1o. %his is not the method. *ou saw me do some of that find of stuff. but the method is to open with anthing. It can be an opinion or a situation or introducing ourself or een bleeding on people. In dnamic situations (stores and moing people) a situational opener tends to work well. ut in clubs or static situations I like to 7ust introduce mself. %he ke is not the opener. %he opener does not matter much. %he ke is how ou handle the response. %he method is amplifing and using r esponses. *ou want to gain the skill to read and use a wide range of responses - that0s fun, flexible and makes r eal connections. Using routines as openers or anwhere does not gie ou much opportunit to use a wide range of responses. %he er point of a routine is to ellicit a specific 0good0 response - that0s boring and weak. II. et deep. 2sk an open-ended 4uestion that can get personal, like, 63o what0s our stor56 %hat0s a good thing to do but it is not technicall part of the method. %he method is not to worr so much about getting deep but to get wide rapport (a feeling like ou can talk about anthing). 2gain the ke is including and amplifing a girl0s response, no matter the response.
III. 8ind out their relationship situation (een if it means asking directl if the hae a bofriend), discuss our relationship situation, and discuss relationships in general. %alking about relationships are great. ut keep in mind ou must talk about our relationship experience or this comes across as ou are 7ust hitting on her. I9. $ake an 3'I 2t all her high points. %his rewards her for tring and sarging ou back. 9. 2rrange a meeting 1o. %his is not the method. *ou do not arrange a meeting. *ou either instant date or both of ou admit ou are reall into each other. %hen if ou want to get together later it is a matter of 7ust taking care of the details. %he real business is in her agreeing that she is into ou. ut reall this is not a method. %here are no stages or steps. %here is no transition. It should not be thought of as a tool to achiee a result. It is a wa. It is a place ou should achiee and sta in and bring others into. %he things like 3'I at her high points or gaining the skill to use an of her reactions or an of the other parts of the wa are not tools to manipulate a result. %he are was to help her fulfill her natural human want to be in that place. &ere is the Juggler wa+ %hink about what ou would want an interaction with a girl to be like if there was no need to get sex. !et0s sa that sex was a gien. *ou did not need to do anthing trick or run 0game0 to score. &ow would ou like that interaction to be5 $self I want it to be fun, exciting, relaxed, plaful and sharing with each other willingl. 1ow think about how ou can make that happen. /ould ou use tricks or be sneak to get a girl to be that with ou5 1o, that would be counter productie and>or unneccesar work. *ou would instead lead her b being fun, relaxed, sharing, or whateer ou want the interaction to be like ourself and learn to allow and encourage her to be that as well. It is 7ust that most people hae no idea how to allow and help someone achiee this place. 1ow the big mental step. 3exualit is not that big of a deal. 3ure it has more important implications as far as chance of pregnanc, disease and emotional connotations. ut from a 0who has the power0 point of iew it should be regarded the same wa as haing fun or an of the things ou want an interaction to be - it should hae nothing to do with power. 3tle ou are a great person. *ou hae man of the skills for doing this method. *ou are an ama:ing and cool person. $uch of what ou do with women is so unnecessar. If ou would 7ust take the chance of directl being the great ou that ou are then ou would not need so much of this extra stuff. I think ou are afraid of our own greatness and mabe dealing with some of the reactions ou would get that comes with letting that person out. 3ometimes ou seem so close to making this shift. 2h, but anwa ou are a good friend so I hae time to conince ou. /hat I am talking about is ama:ing. It can make a er intimate real connection er 4uickl with super hot babes or anone else for that matter. It has been shown to me to be er powerful in man, man contexts. It is based on uniersal truths. 2nd as ou know, I can not demonstrate the more intimate aspects to anone0s satisfaction because of the !%# I am in. ut don0t confuse
the message with the messenger. I usuall get out of interactions after hooking a girl because I know the danger and power of the wa and to keep m promise to m loel girlfriend. %hat is the weakness in m workshops but not in the wa. 3ex and intimac flow er easil out of this place. ut I will hae to think, mabe there is a wa to demonstrate this. 2nwa, it ama:es me how good of friends we are and et I still haen0t cleared all this up with ou. I do actuall think it is a tribute to how much fun we hae together that we neer get around to talking much 0shop0. It0s either that or m inabilit to articulate it all. &oweer, it should all be clear once I finish m book. %alk to ou soon, Juggler www.seductionarts.com TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (7& of 79), Read 914 times Conf: !d"anced rom:t%le cpoles100hotmail-com Date:.uesda%, !pril 22, 200' 01:47 *$
%his explains so much, man. %hanks. 8unn how we hardl een talked about all this, or an PU reall. I am going to print it out and read it when I work out toda, and comment more in depth if necessar. 2lso, here0s an update on some of the girls from the weekend, for fun+ XB %he cute big-teeth girl that had Japanese food with us. %he one that ou kept initing out with us when I had a date with &#ed, !'!D 2nwa, saw her tonight, and spent the night at her place. 8inall. I reall like her for some cra: reason. 2lso soled whateer went wrong last time. 3tle+ !et me ask ou something. /hen ou left m house in the morning last time, did ou get all weird afterwards because ou thought I was a plaer or because ou thought I liked ou too much. &+ oth, I guess. 3tle+ /ell, the0re both true (rolling oer on top of her, and tickling her and kissing her). XH %he short hottie I met at the "aster part, and inited mself to her house that same night when we were in the car. 2h, the memories. 2nwa, ou0ll neer beliee this, but nothing happened. 3he would 1'% get within proximit of me at all for the entire night. It was bi:arre. It was so on before. %his time, she 7ust talked m ear off throughout the entire moie, but the sexual green lights were all gone. i:arre. Just when I was about to think I was a super-stud, I come crashing to earth. XF %he 2sian chick who I got hot and hea with in the bathroom of the die bar. I ma actuall see her again, beliee it or not. 2nwa, good times. /ill respond in detail later, but I generall
agree with what ou wrote. reat post and explanation and clarification. =Powles
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Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (74 of 79), Read 915 times Conf: !d"anced rom:#enDragon Date:.uesda%, !pril 22, 200' 0':'7 *$
%alking about relationships are great. ut keep in mind ou must talk ab out our relationship experience or this comes across as ou are 7ust hitting on her. It sounds like we0re making an effort to hide our real intentions. $abe that could come across as not genuine5 ecause ou are seeking her approal when ou don0t want her to think our0re hitting on her...ou care about how she thinks of ou...and she0s someone ou 7ust met. /hat I am talking about is ama:ing. It can make a er intimate real connection er 4uickl - with super hot babes or anone else for that matter. %his is indeed an ama:ing wa of comnunicating and interacting with others. 2fter our workshop m relationship with eerone around me has improed CCCQD ut in the context of sarging 0super hot babes0, I0m reall not sure this stle would work. 8rom m field experience, when the 0super hot babe0 doesn0t initiall screen ou as her %*P", ou will get almost :ero response from her, and if ou0re working off her response...there is nothing there to work on. "en if ou do get a few words out of her, she is not interested in listening to what ou hae to sa, so our relating ? amplifing are 7ust slipping oer the top of her head while she0s thinking about how to e7ect. I reall beliee with 0super hot babes0, not 7ust in club situations, but in all sorts of contexts, ou need something powerful to get her initial attention. #outines ? gimmicks ma be weak from our point of iew, but the do promise initial attention and ou at least hae a chance to continueD Juggler I think ou0re a great person and er cool to be around with. ut I0e been sarging with our method 9"#* extensiel since the workshop and I 7ust want to be honest about what works and what doesn0t. $abe there are aspects of our method that ou hae not shown us (mabe the0ll be in our book5), but from m field experience so far it0s helping me to make good friends with eerone, but not getting laid with 0super hot babes0. /ith 0super hot babes0, the ones that I get a 0ou0re not m tpe0 ibe from, I0m currentl working on opening with a powerful presentation, once their attention is in place, 4uickl shift to rapport mode (Juggler 3tle). 2n bro w ho has successful experience with this please feel free to share O) @
6I0e cum to liberate all who hae not been liberated.6 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (75 of 79), Read 777 times Conf: !d"anced rom:mmasters antifluaol-com Date:ednesda%, !pril 2', 200' 05:01 *$
'n E>HH>CF F+FG+CC P$, @enragon wrote+ ut in the context of sarging 0super hot babes0, I0m reall not sure this stle would work. 8rom m field experience, when the 0super hot babe0 doesn0t initiall screen ou as her %*P", ou will get almost :ero response from her, and if ou0re working off her response...there is nothing there to work on. "en if ou do get a few words out of her, she is not interested in listening to what ou hae to sa, so our relating ? amplifing are 7ust slipping oer the top of her head while she0s thinking about how to e7ect. I reall beliee with 0super hot babes0, not 7ust in club situations, but in all sorts of contexts, ou need something powerful to get her initial attention. #outines ? gimmicks ma be weak from our point of iew, but the do promise initial attention and ou at least hae a chance to continueD @, I see this barrier ou0re talking about with the highl attractie girls. %he0e had a lot of experience with men and usuall hae a good idea of what the want. 2s well, the hae a lot of options. 2 great wa I0e found to help break through this barrier is b incorporating gunwitch0s ideas with Juggler0s. Particularl sexual state, for it is in using %&2% that ou get beond what she wants and ou displa to her what she needs. TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (77 of 79), Read 750 times Conf: !d"anced rom:?unter thirdmarshallhotmail-com
Date:ednesda%, !pril 2', 200' 09:29 *$
&e, all this 67ust communicate6 stuff is great Juggler, and I agree with practicall 2!! of what ou sa, its 7ust that+ a. 3&s (that0s 3UP"# hot babes) are 1'% eerwhere...the usuall are found in ='1="1%#2%I'1 2#"2s such as "9"1%3, 9"#* =''! =!U3, 8U=;-&'% 92=2%I'1 3P'%s etc. etc. and are often, through not f ault of their own, er, er heail into 4ualifing men....he, if ou had been modelling since BE, on the part scene at B and drien around in nothing but limos and fuck-hot sports cars b gus oo:ing alpha *'U /'U! %''. b. 'ften, half the secret of sarging these s is 7ust getting P""# #'UP 2=="P%"...ie. P23% %&" 8U=;I1 $I1"#s, whether those minders be actual securit or 7ust the 28=s>next-inline-with-mone-to-la-a-model gus who crowd these girl0s lies.... c. I don0t see how our method gets a PU2 anwhere with 3&s I1 %&"3" 3'#%3 '8 3="1"3. I come up with three possibilities+ B. 3eek to sarge 3&s outside of heail sociall-proofed enironments (difficult because of m comment (a) aboe)O H. Wuit sarging 6scene6 3&s who are often prett warped because of the lifestle alluded to in (a) (reasonable enough solution if ou0re actuall looking for a 8, there0s lots of reall cute s out there who are 1'% in the modelling>club scene)O F. et a box of tricks to help ou achiee massie social proof and oercome (b) #2PI!*...eg. $$. Just where I am right now, the abilit to sarge 21* , 21*/&"#" is how I define m game. In terms of what matters in !I8">interpersonal relations with s (and probabl 2$" as well once I0m tired of the superficial shit people are saing 7uggler method is unsuited to) I0ll drop een practising the 6tricks6. Peace, &unter3 TOP | Post | Reply | Reply/Quote | Email Reply | Delete | Edit Previous | Next | Previous Topic | Next Topic | Entire Topic
Topic: Re: Discussion topic: Juggler method (78 of 79), Read 75' times Conf: !d"anced rom:E%% Date:ednesda%, !pril 2', 200' 10:01 *$
In article GRBFG.BBFHVdiscussion.fastseduction.com, &unter3 wrote+ a. 3&s (that0s 3UP"# hot babes) are 1'% eerwhere...the usuall are found in ='1="1%#2%I'1 2#"2s such as "9"1%3, 9"#* =''! =!U3, 8U=;-&'% 92=2%I'1 3P'%s etc. etc. %his is 7ust simpl not true. Period. *ou don0t see a high concentration of 3&s at the arnes ? 1oble, but I0d bet ou C bucks that I can find at least two or three, an
