The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

The Popa Popan ndson dson Fin Fine Gol Gold d Sl Sluice uice,, De Design sign and and Op Opera erating ting Guid Guidel eliines nes

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popandsonminers T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d Sl Sl u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s 17:57:33 Sat Here's the draft version of the Popandson Sluice Design Guidelines. All the lines in the tables Jun 16 2007 didn't show-up, and the text formating is a bit off, but it's not too bad. If you want an MSWord copy by e-mail, let me know: [email protected].. Comments/critique welcome here or by e-mail. [email protected] The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines Introduction Many places in the world only have fine gold, or a significant component component of the value is fine gold, which we figure is 100 mesh (150 micron) and smaller. There is a lot of existing technology capable of getting the +100 mesh, so we thought it worthwhile to go after the -100 mesh fine gold. Building on the successes of others to advance fine gold recovery technology, we experimented and tested and took the prototypes to the field and generally have had a very good time. I guess you could say we �re actually more innovators than miners, although someday we may get serious about actually recovering significant quantities of fine gold. So through trail and error, we have developed the Popandson Sluice Sluice for fine gold recovery, comprised of a series of different sizes of raised expanded metal over Nomad miner �s moss in a simple and inexpensive gravity sluice. Testing 1,2 shows recoveries of +95% of gold from 100 to 200 mesh, and +85% of gold from 200-325 mesh at small scale �production rates�. Nuggets to 5/16 � are also captured.

The Popa Popan ndson dson Fin Fine Gol Gold d Sl Sluice uice,, De Design sign and and Op Opera erating ting Guid Guidel eliines nes

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Figure 1. Here is a picture of an 8� wide x 6� long Popandson Sluice, looking from the head of the sluice, down.

The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

http://bb.bbboy.net/alaskagoldforum-print?forum=2&thread=694

Figure 2. And here, showing better detail of the expanded and hold downs at the middle of the sluice where two lengths are bolted together.

Figure 3. Here�s another variation, showing the hold downs as studs with wing n uts keeping the expanded metal in place.



Sluice design basis It�s useful to compare the published results from others, with the Popandson Sluice operating guidelines.

* Clarkson makes several references to percent recovery of fine gold, such as �Site A demonstrated that a sluice box can recover 95% of the gold as fine as 150 mesh ��5 What isn�t stated, is the mix of gold fractions comprising the total values. If a significant percentage was larger gold, then the percentage of say, 100-150 mesh gold recovered cannot be calculated, but would be much less than 95%. (continued, next post)

popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 18:03:29 Sat (continued from previous post) Jun 16 2007 Sluice design



Figure 4. Schematic image of the Popandson Sluice design.

1) Clamps and hold-downs per Figure 1. Hold-down bars can be 3/16 � or �� thick flatbar, about 1-1/2� wide. Aluminum is best for rust and weight. The clamps must be able to reach the hold-down bars when clamped over the upper edge of the sluice. Or, use studs and



wingnuts per Figure 3. 2) A lightweight dampener will improve fine gold recovery since it knocks down floating gold. Use a 5/16� rod, 13� long and threaded at each end, or all-thread. Insert into drilled holes near the top edge of the sluice sides, about 14�-16� down from the top end and secure with wing nuts. Use a piece of 4-6mil clear Visqueen plastic, about 11-3/4 � wide and 24-30� long, clamped to the rod as the dampener. Make spares. 3) If the quantity of water (or slurry) coming into the head of the sluice is about 40 GPM or less, the hose can be pointed down to the floor of the sluice and the slurry allowed to disperse. If more than 40 GPM is used, then a device will be required to slow the velocity and stop splashing of the incoming slurry. The easiest is a �crash box�, or header box, Figure 4, but a sluice flare is better as is minimizes air entrainment. Keene sells flares and maybe crash boxes, too. A diffuser pipe (2 � pipe with �� holes drilled in it) is also effective to even the flow at the head of the sluice. 4) If the sluice is made longer, proportionately increase the length of the components. 5) If the sluice is made smaller, just change the widths of all materials. Compute the flows and feeds for the narrower width, based on the above table for a 12 � wide sluice. 6) Feel free to change any of these materials to suit what you have available or what you think will work better.

Figure 5. Raised expanded metal specifications, McNichols

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Figure 6. Sluice with �crash box� or �header box� Sluice operation The sluice will operate best with a maximum slurry size of ��-3/4�, as long as the material will move down the sluice without stopping at the lowest water flows. A sluice is the last element in a gold recovery device such as a dredge, highbanker, washplant, trommel, or beach box. It can also be used to advantage as a scavenger sluice behind a jig, centrifuge or shaker table to check for lost values. Narrower versions are used for effective concentrate clean-up sluices at low flows, when the feed is a high percentage of black sand or other heavy material. All operational instructions are based on a 12 � wide sluice. Ratio the feeds and flows if your sluice is a different width. Usually, run it at 1-1/2 � slope per foot of length. This is a good middle ground for slope and will support a significant feed rate. Then the only variables are water flow rate, gravel feed rate, and feed composition (size and percentage of heavy material). Dial-in your operation for the gold conditions. The sluice will capture -300 gold at moderate rates of flow and feed. But, if your site only has gold down to 150 mesh, you can dramatically increase flow and feed, and still get a high percentage recovery of this larger gold. So, some initial testing is in order. Set up the 12� wide sluice at 1-1/2 � slope, and run it at about 15-20 GPM, which is about 1/4�-3/8� deep water. This is about as slow as you need to run for bank-run placer material. Feed at about 20-30 lbs/minute of minus �� material. Run for long enough that you get a good sampling of gold sizes at clean-up. If you have enough gold to use sieves, screen your gold to the various cuts. Maybe +100 mesh, 100-150, 150-200, 200-300 and -300. If you can �t screen, then you have to make an



eyeball estimate of the quantity of each fraction of gold, which will be quite difficult and inaccurate. But, as well as you can, find the smallest size gold that you want to target, based on the percentage of that fraction in your sample. Then, set-up the sluice to run at the optimum setting to capture that size gold, and all larger sizes will be caught, too. Production operation Once you�ve determined the target gold size, you can run at the parameters in the next table. These are estimated feeds and flows to recover a high percentage of different target fractions of gold from bank-run placer material, or where there is about 5-10% of heavy material in the solids. Feeds must be reduced if there is a higher percentage of heavy material. Slope is 1-1/2 � per foot of sluice length:

Feel free to experiment with different operating parameters. For instance, if water is scarce, a slope of 4 � per foot of sluice length will greatly reduce the amount of water needed. But, we haven�t tested that condition for percentage recovery. Regardless of how comfortable you become with your set-up, occasionally catch a bucket of tailings and run it through the sluice at the min flow and feed to check for lost values. Keep the diamonds clear and watch the dancing sands The biggest cause of lost gold occurs when the diamonds become filled with dense material (usually black sand). Whatever the flow and feed are, it is critical to keep the diamonds cleared-out enough to keep the black sand fluidized and to be able to see some Nomad strands in the bottom of the diamond. The 3/16 � expanded (smallest) will be the first to get filled up with black sand and lose the ability to recover gold. But, even if this should occasionally occur due to a surge, the larger expanded will still be operational. Low density light sand (blonds) will not fill the diamonds when operated with placer gravel at the parameters in Table 3. These particles just flush on through and mostly bounce their way along the top of the expanded. But, at the bottom of the moving slurry the black sand (and gold) is flowing down the sluice right at the level of the expanded metal. The vortex in each diamond keeps the black sand and gold fluidized forcing the gold down and into the Nomad. But when the diamond is too full of black sand, the vortex action cannot take place and motionless black sand fills th e diamond. The gold merely skims down the sluice along with the moving black sand. If healthy vortices are working, there is a little mound of black sand at the head of each diamond. The grains are �dancing� in the vortex, and Nomad strands are visible at the bottom of the diamond. A sheet of clear plastic placed on the surface of the water makes it easy to see the dancing sands in action if the water is clear. So, if the water is clear, stop the feed for about 5 seconds to let the light sands flow down the sluice, and check during this time and right after to see if you can see the dancing black sands and some Nomad. If the diamonds are full of black sand, there will sometimes be ribbons of black sand flowing down the sluice, also indicating the diamonds are full. If you see the diamonds are full of black sand or see ribbons, you are losing gold, so reduce the feed, increase the flow of water and/or increase the slope.



If the water is muddy, it �s more difficult to check. But, stop the feed for about 5 seconds and then stop the water flow and let the water drain from the sluice. The sand in the diamonds will collapse and flatten out, but you should be able to see the upper edge of the diamonds, all the way around, Figure 6. It takes a little practice to ignore whatever blond sand is in the diamond, and focus primarily on the black sand.

Another condition that will cause the diamonds to fill is running with a higher percentage of heavy material such as black sand, tungsten compounds or red garnet material found in the Nome sands. So, if it is used as a clean-up sluice, or if there is a high percentage of heavy material in the slurry, the feed must be reduced accordingly. Here�s wishing you the best of success with the Popandson Sluice design. Please send us a report of your experiences, as we �re all still learning. Regards, Steve Gaber, Jason Gaber ][email protected] May, 2007 References: 1)http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=181&topic_id=62871& sub_topic_id=62872&mesg_id=&page=#62876 2) http://bb.bbboy.net/alaskagoldforum-viewthread?forum=2&thread=422 3) Poling and Hamilton, �Pilot Scale study of: F ine Gold Recovery of Selected Sluicebox Configurations�. University of British Columbia. Ref. Table 1 4) Clarkson, Randy, PE �Placer Gold Recovery Research, Final Summary � Prepared for the



Klondike Placer Miner �s Association, 1990. 5) Clarkson, Randy, PE �Gold Losses at Klondike Placer Mines, Gold Recovery Project, Phase 1� Prepared for the Klondike Placer Miner�s Association, 1989. Ref. Pg. 2, 9, 19 6)http://www.keeneeng.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD& Product_Code=4500P&Category_Code=4ID

peluk R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s 08:34:54 Good instructions and tips Steve and a clean,efficient design. Sun Jun 17 2007 Wis49er 03:05:41 Mon Jun 18 2007

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s This is excellant documentation. There is one thing I would like to see more about - the dampener. Yesterday I did a test using the concepts discussed here and found that the dampener seems to help over come flaws caused by all the different factors (water flow, slope of skuice, size of material, etc.). I used 8 mil plastic with a small stick on it and the size of the fine gold retained was remarkable. The type of black matting is also important. There are several variations that came be used. The height of the ridges on the matting can vary. Without further testing of it I can't say for certain what the effect is.

Hoppytraps R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s 18:03:19 Thank you for the great post. Will be building one of those for our fine Ohio gold!!!! Mon Jun 18 2007 thanks again, Will Hopkins maximat 13:38:16 Thu Mar 20 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s Love your sluice. Would like to build one but would like some more info. ie.source for miners moss, expanded metal ( steel or aluminim?), why no slick plate etc. Please send mw the PDF file you mentioned on your post. Thank you for your time and help. Tim Dyer (maximat)

the_troglodyte R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 15:26:30 Thu Nice job, popandsonminers. Thanks for all the effort. Mar 20 2008 popandsonminers R e : Th e P o p a n d s o n Fi n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 03:21:06 Fri Thanks everyone, for the kind words. We really do have the best fun experimenting with the slui Mar 21 2008 and the more people who try it out in different conditions the more we can all learn about catchi fine gold. And the trip to Nome this summer was a highlight!! The text in the original post on this thread has changed a little bit, but the biggest change is the addition of more feed and flow data from the Goldfield website and from Dr. Hermann Wotruba that I�ve acquired since the original version. The revised table is below. One more thing that�s still not in the text of the paper: if you have gold bigger than a bb or so, I'd recommend that you put some 3# grating in the top of the sluice above the largest raised expanded metal. We don't show that in the guidelines, but have found that it is needed from running our 2" dredge this last summer. We just let the whole flow of the dredge hose go down the sluice so there were some 1-1/2 � rocks in there. They, along with the increased volume wit a dredge, will knock loose 22 bullets from the 1 � raised expanded, so the 3# grating is there to catch any big gold that might find it �s way into our dredge nozzle (not yet, unfortunately, just



lead bullets and lots of those). If you have gold much bigger than a pea, you should add some riffles- perhaps like a Keene design. And if you use the P&S sluice design, please post your experiences- good and not so good.

popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 03:43:27 Fri Tim Dyer, Mar 21 2008 I'd be glad to send you the Guidelines via e-mail. Just send me a PM with you addy, or e-mail me at [email protected]. Miner's moss in small amounts is best from a Keene dealer or direct order. McNichols is a sure source for raised expanded metal, but very, very expensive, so look around in the metal supply outlets, sheet metal fab shops, scrap yards and farm stores. And as far a the slick plate/no slick plate, there are several threads that address that in detail. You can search on posts from Peluk, Zooka, Popandsonminers and others, with key word "slick", and you can find them pretty easily. Don't forget to check the box "5 hours and older" on the search page. Everyone but me is pretty much sold on the value of a slick plate. Zooka R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 15:44:49 Fri Howdy, P&S, Mar 21 2008 I was looking at your numbers in the chart above and wondered at the feed rate for the Keene 4, based upon the maker's rating. Here is my math and answer, which though different from yours is still WAY faster than I have ever seen anyone successfully move flowsand much less dredge: 5 cu. yds. per hour = 2500 lbs per yard (average gravels) x 5 = 12500 lbs per hour. 12500 lbs per hour x .75 = 9375 lbs per foot of sluice width, per hour. 9375 lbs per hour divided by 60 minutes = 156.25 lbs per minute. Still a LOT more than I would run thru a 4" dredge... that is the dredge's weight per minute. Also, the Poling/Hamilton and Clarkson setups used 2 different widths depending on the riiffle



style; the expanded metal riffles required twice the width to handle the same volume of feed as the 1 inch hungarians. But by th e same token, a 1 foot hungarian section used 2x the water as a 1 foot expanded section, and processed twice the material per hour in their tests. Kind of hard to fit that info in your charts, I reckon... 80 lbs per minute thru your sluice gives it a thruput of 80 x 60 = 4800 lbs per hour, just under 2 cu. yards per hour per foot. THat makes for a pretty interesting challenge when applying it on a commercial scale - how does one make a plant able to handle 100 cu yd per hour through a P&S riffle system? THat'd take at least 50 feet of sluice WIDTH... 80 gpm x 50 feet width = 4000 gallons per MINUTE of water. - whew! Quite a challenge to set up such a system. -Z AceHand R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 01:40:44 Sat While the larger expanded can be found easily, I found the 3/16" at home depot in the appliance Mar 22 2008 section in replacement air filters for above a kitchen range. The filter I found was 11" x 11". Your home depot stock on hand will probably vary. I also found 6" x 10' rolls of 3/16" used as a leaf barrier for home gutters. Both these raised expandeds are very similar to the type used by popandson. It sure beat having to order a much larger piece from a metal dealer. Much cheaper too. I've also found some in commercial grease filters from a restaraunt. They were 2' x 2' and seem a little heavier duty. Probably harder to come by though. All these expandeds are aluminum. Just thought I'd throw this info out here for anyone having a hard time finding some. cali209 R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s 01:18:03 Popandson, Sun Mar 23 2008 Do you guys have one of these you can sell? I surely can use this type of sluice but have no time to build one. Let me know... Thanks Eu_citzen R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s 10:59:41 Cali welcome to AGF. Sun Mar 23 2008 popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 02:08:48 Mon AceHand�s post reminded me that there is also the �pet screen� at Lowes and others. Look Mar 24 2008 in the screen door section and it comes in several different styles, but it �s all expanded metal in the smaller sizes. One is actually the 3/16 � raised expanded metal I originally used on early prototypes. About $25 for a 30 � x 30� piece, and it comes in colors, too! Zooka, nice to hear from you and to know that you are critiquing the chart. That keeps me on my toes. I use 125 lbs/cuft for gravel density so it comes out to 210lbs/min thruput for the Keene dredge. Your figure of less than 100lbs/cuft is probably more accurate for loose gravel, which placer material is by the time it gets to the washplant. But regardless, only a fraction of the material goes thru the fine gold section of the Keene sluice- I think only the minus 3/16� material? So it�s a lot less. It would be the same for a Goldfield or Clarkson setup, too. Only the minus 1 � or �� would go thru the sluice. I �ve heard that�s maybe 30-50% of the total feed? To arrive at the Goldfield lbs/min per foot of width, for instance, I figured about half the feed was going to the sluices, which results in 3-400 lbs/min per foot, which is in the ball park with Clarkson and P/H. The Goldfield 200 yd/hr plant (100 yds to the sluice) has 15 � of sluice width and uses 2000 GPM of water.



So, yes, there will be challenges to designing a Popandson sluice on a commercial scale. But, maybe the feed is reduced to minus 3/8 � in size and rate increased to 120 lbs/min per foot of sluice width. The 3/16 � raised expanded metal would be too fragile so would have to use �� as the smallest. Reduce the water to something manageable. Try out a number of bench tests to see how the new parameters affect performance. Tune the sluice to the actual conditions of the site and I do believe that a practical commercial P&S sluice can be designed to catch a high percentage of gold to 200 mesh and a significant amount of the 300 and smaller gold, too. I did a draft design for a 200 yd/hr operation and came up with about 28 � of sluice width (14 � for a 100 yd/hr). Not too bad. That �s only helpful, however, if your site actual has significant gold that small, like off-shore Nome. Cali209- No, we don �t make and sell sluices. On the small scale we operate, it �s not worth it by a long shot. However, if someone on the forum wants to make up a bunch and offer them for sale, I �ll offer whatever advice I can on material sources and how to make a production model or two- just email me.

the_troglodyte R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 06:51:04 Mon I've been considering it, Popandsonsminers. I was going to make one for myself pretty soon. I Mar 24 2008 have a shear, press and homemade break, and have done quite a bit of fabrication and had my own welding shop since 1974, so this wouldn't be too hard if I can work it in between my regular work.. I can e-mail you for details. Zooka 02:30:06 Tue Mar 25 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s Popandsons, Correct me if I am wrong but I recall the Poling and Clkarkson studies were based on actual yardage thru the sluice, after the screening, not based upon actual mine yardages. Back when I was learning the pit sampling trade from an experienced miner and mining engineer, he had me segregate each sample by % of rock over 2 inches, and over 3/4 inches (our trommel screen size). That way we had a rough estimation of hoew much of the ore in a given sasmple would actually end up in the slucies. In that particular placer gold deposit (Manhattan Gulch, Nevada) we found that if the +2" was over 60%, the ore would be the best. When +2 was 30% and +3/4" was under 40% we'd get the lowest gold per bank cubic yard even though we had to run a lot slower because of the larger % going into the sluices. But it made sense, in most all of the other streams I have been in the best gold was in with the biggest rocks; sand or gravel bars were the poorest. How that translates in the world of mining is that in those hot areas, where the rocks averaged a larger size, we could shove a lot more ore thru the hopper of the wash plant per hour without overloading the sluice, because a lot of it would go off the hopper screen or out the end of the trommel and not down the sluice So you are saying that your numbers for the Keene sluice are based upon a large % of the yardage going down the upper sluice and not thru the screen to the lower deck. 'I still say that is too fast - their rating is way out of line with the reality of suction dredging. Only time you can run fastest is when all the rocks are under your nozzle size, and usually that means a ton of minus 3/8 sand thru the screens as well. Recipe for overloading the sluices. It is ironic - when you are in an area where you have to put down the nozzle and move rocks half the time, the sluices run clear, no danger of packing them up and losing fines, but the gold is so big there you dont need to worry about losing fines; and where the ore is sandy or gravelly you have to really slow down the temptation to hog it fast because the gold is so small that only the under sluice is optimized for its recovery, but the u ndersluice is getting slammed by the volume of minus sands... so finer folds actually causes an exaggerated discrepancy in ounces per day. You can run 20 yards of the large-cobble stuff in the same period you could run only 15 yards of the smaller stuff... but the gold is better in the larger stuff usually as well. Double whammy. I blather, sorry, just sort of wandering... -Z



the_troglodyte R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 03:46:23 Tue Please keep blathering, Zooka. You just blew apart my ideas of where to find gold in a placer Mar 25 2008 deposit. No wonder I have been shoveling so much sand and dirt for so little gold.. (minitrommel) Information like that is not easy to find. Thanks.

twobitcreek R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 21:03:47 Thu Hello popandson this is twobitcreek in South Dakota the water is still to hard to pump but we are Mar 27 2008 getting ready for the thaw. The sluice that you have is about the same as the one that I built. I followed the design of Randy Clarkson in his riffle study. Ours is two feet wide and twenty feet long.the top ten feet have 11/2 "angle iron riffles that are set back 15 degrees. and is set at a drop of 3" per foot. The bottom ten foot and has #4 expanded metal. We pump 320gpm and a feed rate of 160lbs per min more or less.we have a small trommel that we feed by hand. We screen our material to 1" minus before the trommel and than it is screened to 1/2" minus. we have 3/8 inch punch plate in the top two feet of the sluice. This works real well,and we seen to be recovering most of the gold . we test the tailing about every two hours an d there is little to no gold in them. Can you tell if there is any diffrents in the gold recovery in the size of expanded metal? Thankyou twobitcreek popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 03:39:45 Fri Twobitcreek, Mar 28 2008 Fantastic, you have a perfect set-up to see if you can improve your fine gold recovery and it won�t take much effort. I have no advice on the upper 10 � of your sluice and want to focus on your lower sluice which is 10 � long with 4# grating (expanded metal). My recommendations are based on having Nomad under your expanded metal and having the slope of your lower sluice at 1-1/2 � per foot of sluice. Do you know the mesh size of th e finer gold you are now getting? To test if you can recover more fine gold, I would just put a scavenger extension on the end of your existing sluice. Your feed (80 lbs/ min/ft of width, minus ��) is right in the ball park to get a good recovery of minus 100 mesh gold. Your flow (160 GPM/ft of width) seems a bit strong for good fine gold recovery, so reduce that by about half. This will still work well, since you are feeding only 20-25% of the material that Clarkson and P/H recommend. Make the scavenger sluice 2 � long and put �� raised expanded metal over backed Nomad in it. Bolt it or clamp it to the end of your existing sluice and see what you capture after running for a day or two. Or, if you see any gold in the scavenger sluice, clean up sooner. If you have minus 100 mesh gold in your feed, I believe that you will recovery some in the scavenger sluice, since the 4# grating is pretty coarse for the smaller gold. If you get some good gold in the scavenger sluice, then we can figure out modifications to your current sluice. Ten foot of sluice is plenty long for a shovel operation, so you could trim back the 4# material and put in some �� and maybe 3/16 � raised expanded downstream in the sluice. The 3/16� will bow in the middle of a 2� width, so you need to figure out a way to hold it down in the middle. See Fig. 3 in the first post in this thread for an idea about using a clamping strip down the middle of the sluice to hold down the 3/16� material. If you don�t get any gold in the 3/16�, then you can run the more robust �� in the entire lower end of the sluice. Good luck and please, once your water turns to liquid and you can run your sluice, tell us how it goes and post some pictures.



Zooka R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 04:54:12 Fri Dern my last reply got me all confused and I lost my train of thought, ended up hijacking the Mar 28 2008 thread some there, my apologies. What I was trying to say in the context of this thread is that the P&S parameters of feed rate, flow rated and slope, versus the Poling/Clarkson parameters, have some interesting permutations when it comes to correctly sizing your equipment. Say you have a sluice set up for the Poling / Clarkson riffles, a screening plant of some sort sized to process that yardage per hour of the P/C feed rate, and excavators, loaders, whatever to feed it at that rate. THat sizing choice usually is made around the heavy equipment and/or plant, and the parameter for its choice is the biggest you can afford to ru n. But if you try and change over that plant and equipment setup to process for a P&S sluice setup, your thruput (and ounces per day) will have to change, usually to the lower. Let's say you have a convsntional plant set up to process ore that is 60% oversize thru the trommel or screens. So 40 % goes to the sluices. They are sized and the pump is sized to handle that 40%. But if you then go to a finer gold deposit, in a bench that is say only 30% bigger than the screen, you cannot feed the sluices at the same rate. If you did you would have nearly twice as much material in the sluices per hour, with the same water. You would have to slow down the feed to compensate. enter the P&S sluice. Its parameters are so much lower in the realm of water and feed per foot of width, and so much more forgiving in the realm of water to ore ratio, that I believe you could indeed build a tiered set of P&S sluices and replace the poling/ clarkson sluices innthis hypothetical plant with them, and run at the same rate in YPH! Avoid the double whammy of lower feed rate and finer gold to recover. Hope this is not blathering. I need to sit down and study on this some, and write an article. Then get Dick to test it out for me, LOL! -Z twobitcreek R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s 18:30:36 Fri Thank you for the reply. Ok the lower end of the sluice is set at 1 1/2 drop per foot. I like the Mar 28 2008 Idea of the extra sluices at the end. I have two 8' X 12" sluices that I can attach to the lower end easy enough. My tailings don't show that I am losing much gold bigger then micron size, but if I can catch that too it will be a plus. and I tried to attach pics I hope that they come through. twobitcreek popandsonminers R e : Th e P o p a n d s o n Fi n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 00:56:22 Sun Twobitcreek has sent me some pictures to post. His original sluice had punch plate with ribbed Apr 6 2008 under it right at the top for the initial gold recovery, then Clarkson riffles in the top sluice @3 � slope and then 4# grating in the lower sluice at 1-1/2� slope. He will try smaller expanded met in his lower sluice, as shown in the first picture, to see if he catches any more fine gold. This is really a nice set-up where he looks like he processes a respectable amount of material an doesn't have to mortgage the farm to do it! Here are twobitcreek's text and pictures: Well yes of course you can post them. Ok the first one is us setting up to find the height from fl to the bottom of the sluice so that we could dig out under the trommel so that we had room to g the three inch per foot drop. And drill the holes for the 3/8 rods that are used to hold the woode wedges in place that hold the expanded down.



And the second pic is of me setting up the second spray bar in the back of the trommel to help keep the trommel tray clean. And the grizzly is an old cattle guard with 1" screen bolted to it. It works great. There is alot of heavys in the gravel, hematite mostly. We test the tailing pile every two hours a the gold that we are letting be is 600 mesh micron gold and there is not much of that. It is like face powder fine. We recover most of the gold on the ribbed rubber matting that is just above th riffles. Then the riffles catch the rest, except the real small gold and it is caught in the expanded


I am sending you some pics of our pit system.




Flash in the pan!!

popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 00:59:28 Sun And yes, Zooka, we (at least some of us) enjoy your blathering. Please do think on it and Apr 6 2008 write that article. Then get your hypothesis tested for real!! This is getting interesting--viniv 15:23:48 Sun Apr 6 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s I simply added 3/16 raised metal to my power sluice and already holding better gold I will be upgrading the whole sluice to pops method for working all blacks sands TY very much for all the research work .



viniv 04:05:32 Mon Apr 7 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s Ok ran some black sands that I had already blue bowled back threw my sluice this is more then I thought I would find, just with one raised metal piece I could not believe it. I was about to dump those concentrates too....

gray_wolf 15:50:54 Mon Apr 7 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s Hey Viniv!! Looks like a nice little set you got there. Is that a stock Keen mini sluice? How much of the 3/16 expanded?



How do you like that spray bar clip? what is your water flow ( how much ) and what is your water supply? looks like 1" pvc I would just like to know if that is OK. Thank you GW. JOE_S_INDY R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 17:55:00 Viniv, Mon Apr 7 2008 Look at that last picture - the mini sluice with the two 1" water sources at the top. There is a 'Black Dot' in the middle of the bottom of your slick plate. Not enough water f low to move those black sands down, making a ' catchment'. I suspect you need a bit more water in the middle of the plate. As an experiment, I would bring a supply down, "T" it and then cap both ends of the "T". Then drill more holes than needed along the entire width of the box. They wouldn't be spray holes since the concentrates seem to have been washed already, but rather just water supply holes. Mighty fine little box there! Joe viniv 21:15:33 Mon Apr 7 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s Yeah I see it Joe and am going to change that over with more holes it all comes apart nothing is glued together.

Thats a custom made sluice by RCM Enterprises, with a 12V Attwood V750 pump about 550-750 GPH The sluice is 6"x24" so thats about 12" of expanded but I want to cut that in half and run another 6" of smaller stuff though that is catching all if not most of the fines pretty nicely.

I bought the sluice to use in really small creeks with trickles of water but its definetly multi functional and all of it fits in a 5 gallon bucket

viniv 03:07:15 Tue Apr 8 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s Talked with Rick today the guy who makes the sluices he says lose the riffles if I'm going to run it this way so will give that a try also.

twobitcreek 03:27:49 Tue Apr 8 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s hello again well we just got another 6" of snow so the ice should be gone in about three weeks I am going to try to send more pics twobitcreek

fladredger 10:30:07 Tue Apr 8 2008

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s Hey Two Bit.Greg in BC just bought up an interesting question in another thread titled Trommel vibration.Your sluice is isolated from trommel vibration for the most part,or it seems so.I wonder if by having your sluice set up the way you do if you are losing some benefits that others with on frame sluices get for free.Just a thought.I realize it would be hard for you to capture this free energy but ,I was wondering if this might not be something to give a little thought too for others.I know my sluice, being supported entirely on f rame ,will have full benefit of trommel vibration.If there is any.Hmmm.Is there any data on vibrating vs stationary sluices?Perhaps a thread? You mentioned a spraybar inside your collector. Are you getting a large buildup there



that dosent flow to your sluicebox,hence the extra water?I ask because I made a collector like yours for mine.Do I need to expect buildup in the flat collectors?Hey, I'm still building.I dont want to be throwing stuff when I take it to Georgia to try out trommel attempt #2.LOL Randy tabwyo R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 16:15:18 Fri Thanks Pop & Son for a great sluice. I had to register just to say that I appreciate the work and I Jun 27 2008 think you are really onto something good. I am pretty new to prospecting but even a newbie can recognize a good thing when he sees one. Just one question though. Have you guys done any testing on your riffle configuration?? I have been reading into the subject and have found research saying that adding the largest riffle section last may actually help in fine gold recovery farther up the sluice as well as trapping the larger stuff. From what I gathered having the largest section of raised expanded last allows the sluice to establish a laminar flow faster at the sluice entrance allowing fine to drop out before having to speed up to go over the larger expanded. I have recently made a 7 foot long by 8 inch wide Popandson style sluice with interchangeable expanded riffle sections. It aint pretty but it seems to work. I have yet to try the largest section last configuration. But I have ran the sluice with a 1 foot section of 1/2 raised and the rest 1/4 inch and recovered very fine gold with only ribbed carpet backing. I also ran the sluice with 100% 1/4 inch with 1/4inch nomad & ribbed rubber matting yet recovered no visible gold from the very same spot I had recovered gold at the day before with the previous set-up. I am pretty certain it was more a factor of way too much flow vs the riffles/nomad/matting though. But I did retain about 1/5 of a 5g buckets worth of concentrates vs 1/5 of a 3g buckets worth from my previous arrangement. All in all I guess I just wanted to say thanks for the great ideas. That and I figured input, be it success of the lack there of, from the field can only help you guys in you efforts in making the ultimate fine recovery sluice. Zooka R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 17:47:08 Fri Tab, Jun 27 2008 Thanks for posting your experience and experiments, that is so important to this forum. One thing that can happen when using expanded on moss, or on several other types of matting, is that if the matting sticks up too far into the boil area of the expanded, it'll prevent those boils from forming. And the boils are what causes the syystem to work. Laying expanded on a ribbed carpet usually (depending on the carpet) will not cause that interference with the riffle action. Some guys have found better success with their unbacked moss upside down, as that surface is quite flat, and matches up to small riffles without disrupting their boils. Or, it may be that ribbed mat is a better gold keeper in your deposit. Or just plain better overall. That would be contrary to my tests and those of Popandson but then we sure as heck aint perfect! -Z tabwyo R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 23:43:08 Fri I am headed back out tomorrow to the same area. I'll pay closer attention to the action in the Jun 27 2008 expanded riffles. The last couple time I was rather preoccupied with keeping an eye on the kids and dog. Tomorrow it'll just be the wife and I so I should get so serious sluicing done. popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s �Thanks Pop & Son for a great sluice. I had to register just to say that I appreciate the work 00:40:53 Sat ��..� Jun 28 2008 Thank you, tabwyo, for your kudos and appreciation and the report on your own sluice experience. Not too many years ago we were new and looking to find the best simple set-up for fine gold recovery. I got a lot of help from folks on the internet forums and kind of got carried away with testing and reporting, myself!! And if you keep experimenting, you �ll find



what works best for you. Lots of insights are to be found on this forum so take the best and use them for yourself.

As far as the configuration of largest expanded at the top or at the bottom of the sluice, I don�t think it matters much. A smooth transition from one to the other is more important with no rooster tails of water from the transition fr om one to the other. So, I put the bigger expanded at the top so the water drops onto the smaller expanded below it. Just for fun, clean up under each size of expanded individually to see how much gold is under each one. Then, swap ends with the size of expanded and clean up under each one again. I �m pretty sure the percentage of gold will be about the same in the top expanded each time, which ever size is at the top. And it will be in the topmost 12 � of sluice. As far as ��way too much flow�.� causing you to lose gold from your sluice, you can start with 1-1/2 � slope per foot of sluice length and water at �� deep, which will get a high percentage of recovery, and adjust from there.

Seeing this thread again reminds me that I updated the Popandson Sluice guidelines paper in April 08. It has additional information on feed and flow rates. It also has a companion paper I wrote for the several people who were thinking about building the P&S sluices for sale. The second paper also has a good description and pictures of our sluice for the little 2 � dredge we used last year showing the use of 3# grating as the largest expanded. In a dredge with more flow and larger rocks, deeper riffles are needed than in a highbanker to catch .22 bullet-sized gold. I �ll gladly send both papers to anyone who e-mails me at [email protected].

jssbastiat R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 20:31:57 Sat Just wanted to add my thanks for the research and publication of the P&S sluice. Jun 28 2008 We used the info to narrow down our design and it worked out well. Also, we had P&S help us get setup here and appreciate the extra help....we're gonna send some con samples your way! One thing we did to cut out all of the beach pea gravel was to put the 3/16 expanded metal under the 1/2 all the way....we found that h aving open 1/2 over MM would allow the small gravel to stop the top of the MM up and allow the heavy red/black sand to also clog up the MM pores...we have a good vibrating action all teh way down through the exp. metal...if we overload, we give it a minute and it flushes out... so, we had a good beading action all the way down our sluice...2x6 ft...we poured the water to it at a step incline....1.75 drop, heavy water, long sluice, allowed us to run for at least 12 h ours run time on our MM before we cleaned it up....we changed our daisy mat every 3 to 4 hours...very little gold over the end until about the 10th hour, we had some very fine gold go over, but nothing we watned to mess with....and the expanded metal started filling up quicker at the 10th hour and we had to feed it slower and give it a break to clear our a little after 6 to 8 shovel fulls.... one last thing we want to add to the design is a sliding mat system under our 2x3 hopper to where we have a daisy mat cut to fit it...with 1/16 screen on top of it to prevent the small pebbles from clogging it up...and have this on a tray that we can easily pull out of the hopper for cleaning every 2 hours...we have had excellent large and small gold catching abilities in our hopper with the daisy mat..it also helps to smooth the water action out by having the daisy mat hang over and down towards the slick plate, so, the water/.slurry just slides down and does not foam up.... thanks P&S tabwyo 02:49:09

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s I think my issues are using the P&S sluice as a stream sluice. I'll stick to useing it as a recirc.



Tue Jul 1 2008 popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 04:44:22 Tue Scotty, Sounds like you hit the Mother Lode!! And have found a good combination of sluice Jul 1 2008 design elements that works well for you--- Now that it's not snowing anymore, you can make good time---- Good trick with the daisy mat to prevent foaming tabwyo- We've used a P&S sluice successfully as a stream sluice and also on our recent acquisition, a 2-1/2" Proline dredge with air. Light enough to pack in quite some distance, but big enough to move a lot more gravel from the right spots. We made a new sluice for it and the three sizes of expanded: 3# grating, 1" and 1/2"raised expanded worked to perfection in our shakedown trip (no gold, just moving gravel). The rocks went over the end and the diamonds had good action and were self cleaning. So, I think once you get the hang of using a fine gold-getting sluice, you will have good success, even as a stream sluice. Use the recirc for sampling, small runs or clean-up, as the thru-put is pretty limited. tabwyo R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 01:25:22 Sat I had originaly set the sliuce up as a recirc highbanker. I am surrounded by desert here so Jul 5 2008 restricting myself to areas with water seriously limits my options. I have had better result with the sluci by classifying the material down to 30 mesh first. I can pan the rest. paperweight 05:11:20 Thu Jan 8 2009

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s This is a really great thread. We are building very similar to the setup used by twobit except instead of the trommel, we have an old 500 gallon propane tank to make a hopper out of which will have parallel spraybars aimed at grizzly bars like a large highbanker. I wonder how a sluice like his would work if it was fed 1 1/2" minus or even 2" from the hopper. It looks like he uses 2x 2" pumps.

paperweight R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s 19:23:06 Clarkson recommends at least 432 gpm per foot with 1inch angle iron. A honda 4in from Thu Northern tool says 383 gpm which is probably at full rev. Jan 8 2009 popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 21:40:06 Thu Paperweight, Jan 8 2009 The P&S sluice is a fine gold recovery device, and 1-1/2� to 2� feed material is too big for good performance and will also beat the smaller expanded to death in short order. I�d say experiment with the feed to the P&S sluice at ��-3/4�. This could be the lower end of a Vee sluice, where the larger material is run thru the upper sluice at a high rate with Clarkson angle iron riffles, then thru a 3/8 � or �� grizzly to feed the lower sluice. Here �s a small version Power Sluice Vee sluice to show what I �m talking about. Good luck and please report back!


aumbre 07:07:54 Sun Jan 11 2009


R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s Thanks to all for the great info I've been picking up on THE FORUM. Pop & Son, concerning your testing of milled hardrock ore; Have you made any changes to the general operating plans? Are you able to adequately clean the Nomad between batches for accurate testing of separate samples? What are the other minerals that are in the concentrates? I have hardrock material ("in place", dump rock , and milled tailings) that carry au, ag, cu, pb, & zn that I would like to test for gravity pre-concentration at the site and further processing at the shop.

popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 23:25:46 Sat Aumbre, Jan 17 2009 Yes, the Nomad will clean up quite well. We now use backed Nomad with good success. Even tho some losses are expected, our last experiments with hard rock ore, pulverized to minus 60 mesh, showed we were running too fast and recovery must improve to get the finer gold. I would say for your hard rock tailings, assuming fully ground to a fine mesh, run with 1" to 1-1/4" slope per foot, 1/4" deep water, and slow feed to keep the diamonds in the raised expanded very visible. Use a visqueen dampener. Test the sluice tailings as you go, then increase slope and volume until you lose too much gold for your comfort level. Wow, best of luck with your pile of tailings. Depending upon how they were processed, there could be significant gold in it. You also might think about a Falcon Icon bowl, debated on another thread on this forum. AKBill R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s 21:15:06 Sat This is great! I seem to find far more super fine gold than any thing else. Would this work in a Feb 14 2009 sub dredge set up? hoppingforpay R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 05:59:52 Tue I have been using raised expanded metal on 5" 6" and 8" dredges for over 20 years. I quit Feb 17 2009 hungarians in Idaho do to checking the content of one riffle. The last one. While hungarians work good in a fast flow with n ot to fine of gold.Expanded metal works well with not too coarse of gold. I have found fine gold to catch quite soon on expanded metal but I have found coarse gold to spread out along the box with expanded metal riffles only. So I change according to what I find. Gold in the tailings is what I check. I don't worry to much about a few pinpoints because it takes millions to add up to any kind of weight. You either have to have quite a bit of this super fine gold in the ground to make it add up or move massive amounts to see it add up to real money. I like to use a double layer of 3/4 expanded metal since it holds a better concentrate



than one layer in the case of too much flow causing a clean out of the riffles. Instead of gold being blown out to the next catch it instead has a place to sink out of the way from the flow. deltana_guy 22:11:19 Thu Jul 30 2009

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g Gu i d e l i n e s I was wondering, how effective would it be if I took the sluice off of my 4" keene dredge and used the triple sluice to recover the fine gold, until I needed the dredge again. When I was buying the dredge I was told the Triple Sluice Box was designed to hold on to the fine gold. Has anyone tried this? Would beat fabricating a new sluice for me if this was a way to go.

Also wanted to say thanks to everyone on this forum, TONS of useful info. Out in the creeks you dont see much people to exchange ideas and information. Muley R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 05:34:13 Found this great info and since it was on page 25 I wanted to bring it back up to page 1. that Tue way it may be of some help to some of the newer members that may get some value out of it. Dec 28 2010 baub R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 06:17:13 Good idea, Muley. Tue Dec 28 2010 popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 03:28:46 Thu Thanks, Muley, I'm glad you "bumped" it. I've sent out the "guidelines" papers mentioned Dec 30 2010 earlier to maybe several hundred individuals. Many have replied and are quite complementary. I still have the files and are glad to send them to anyone who wants the updated info on the "Popandson Sluice". E-mail is: SNDG "at" comcast.net I did get a recent comment about using a second dampener. The point was that perhaps one should be used on both the top and bottom of the sluice- on the bottom so that if the sluice is shut down and re-started, some of the fine gold already in the sluice, exposed to the air, would float and be knocked down before it floated out of the sluice. I wish I would get more reports of the use of a P&S sluice on larger placer operations, screened to maybe 1/2", as I think they lose a lot fine gold due to high thru-put and courser expanded if using the Clarkson or Poling design. If anyone has tried even 1/2" raised expanded on a large-volume placer operation, please let me know-It's also been rewarding to hear of a number of Artisanal Small Miners (ASM) around the world that have used P&S sluices to capture more gold and not have to use mercury. I've sent info to all continents, and some have replied and are hugely appreciative. And thanks to all the supporters on this forum! We're now working on testing and recovery from hard rock ore, so will keep all updated as we progress. Here's hoping that next year is even better for you than this one was-----

torchman R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 06:08:42 Has anyone ever seen expanded made out of poly (plastic)? Thu Dec 30 2010 dungbeetle R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 13:09:56 has any one used scourer pads instead of Miners moss? Thu They look like they'll do the job ok. Dec 30 2010 Do different mesh underlays affect the sluices ability to capture fine gold? I'm using cordoury -



but it's clogging with black sands pretty quick, the door matt MM looks too course a pattern for the reall fine (5mm) mesh i'm running. Muley R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 18:25:16 Dungbeetle, "Micro-Sluice" use's 3m Scotch brite pads thats the only one that I know of. Thu Dec 30 2010 Torchman, I have seen plastic expanded somewhere but don't remember where, but it was flat not raised, if weight is a problem then check out alumimum raised expanded. Popsandon, This is one the top ten posts on this forum, I would hate to see it lost.

Jim_Alaska R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 03:04:12 Fri I found the plastic mesh at Lowes or Home depot. It is in the roofing and/or plastic rain gutter Dec 31 2010 section. Prospect09er 01:33:03 Sat Jan 1 2011

R e : Th e P o p a n d s o n F i n e Go l d S l u i c e , D e si g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s I took a Keene A52 sluice box and modified it, applying the Popandson concept. I think it works awesome for fine gold with just 3/4 � and 1/2� expanded metal. I did raise the slick plate 5/8 � to let the material drop-in opposed to making it climb over the first riffle. Not sure how much of a difference it made??? Needs more testing. I still need to find some 3/16 � expanded metal though. I �ve had a heck of a time trying to find any scrap. I�ll eventually end up buying a half sheet from somewhere, I�m sure.

One thing I want to do with this A52 mod., is test it against the stock riffles and carpet that comes with it.



InspectorTom R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n Fi n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 17:57:26 Prospect09er, Sun I may be stating the obvious but have you tried looking at your local scrap metal business? They Jan 2 2011 often have old screen doors & such where various sized alum. pieces can be scavenged. How about your local high school welding class? My brother is a welding teacher & often has scrap expanded laying around. Best of luck...T PS - Nice mods to the A-52... Steppegold 18:31:15 Sun Jan 2 2011

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s Scrap metal dealers is a good idea. In Mongolia the front ventilator grill of Russian microbuses have raised expanded metal. I've not found a scrap one yet, as these machines seem to run for ever' I've not summoned the courage to steal one; and I may end up having to buy a microbus!

Its easy to get FLAT expanded metal. They are used, at least here, to hold together air filters for CAT dozers and excavators. The old filters are discarded so you can get them as freebies from any CAT dealer or driver. But the darned expanded metal is flat, so its of limited use. Hope this helps. Steppe popandsonminers R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e , D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 19:26:10 Sun You can get 3/16" raised expanded at Lowes or Home Depot. Look in the screen door section Jan 2 2011 for a "pet screen": it is just what you need. Sorry, Steppe, I don't think you have Big Box stores in Mongolia? Prospect09er 21:22:58 Sun Jan 2 2011

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s Thanks for the ideas! I just need to keep looking. I�ve looked all over in my local Home Depot and Lowe�s, and nothing. But I will look again in the screen door area, I must have missed it. I did buy some rib lath (for stucco), but I didn �t care for it. I�ve hit a few scrap/recycling metal places, but all they seem to have right now is flat expanded. I�m always looking on craigslist, but still, nothing I can use. The 3/4 I have now I found at a welding shop. Any thoughts on an all aluminum expanded system for a sluice box? I �ve wanted to try it.



McNichols seems to have everything I need, too. overtheedge R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 23:27:52 For really fine mesh expanded aluminum, just go to the nearest mesh-type big ugly satellite dish Sun (C-band). The expanded is right small and probably will need pre-classification to 20 mesh or so. Jan 2 2011 dungbeetle R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 22:58:53 Sat Just setup with the scourer pads - works well, looks queer.. vry easy to clean out. Feb 5 2011

baub 16:28:40 Sun Feb 6 2011

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s It looks like a great fine gold getter. Any problems with the pads ?

dungbeetle 17:57:17 Sun Feb 6 2011

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s

Quote: baub at 16:28:40 Sun Feb 6 2011 It looks like a great fine gold getter. Any problems with the pads ?

Hi mate - no dramas with the pads, just wish i could find big sheets of the stuff but at $3.25 for a twenty pack i'm not complaining. I was very surprised at how easy they are to clean out, just a quick squirt with the hose and all is good. I didn't have time this run (contract job) but n ext run I'll seperate the cons from the top of the pads and the cons from the underlying rubber matt. I would like to see how much gold actually drops down through the pad weave, and how much remains on top. baub 03:32:58 Mon Feb 7 2011

R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s Cool ! Please let us know.

b

BabeShooter R e: T h e P o p a n d s o n F i n e G o l d S l u i c e, D e s i g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s 10:54:01 Sat Hey, I'm from Ohio! I live in southern California now. Where Are you finding gold in Ohio? Going Dec 17 2011 home for the holidays and wold love to find gold for Christmas! LOL Go Buckeyes! Chris

T h e Po p a n d s o n F i n e Go l d S l u i c e , D e si g n a n d O p e r a t i n g G u i d e l i n e s http://bb.bbboy.net/alaskagoldforum-viewthread?forum=2&thread=694 Powered By BbBoard - http://bb.bbboy.net

The Popandson Fine Gold Sluice, Design and Operating Guidelines

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