www.sefin findia.org :: :: Vi View to topic - Se Secondary to to Pr Prima imary beam co connections
http://www.sefindia.org/foru orum/vi m/vieewtopic.php?t=8120
www.sefindia.org STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING FORUM OF INDIA [SEFI] Search Sa'e Subscriptions
Follow @sefindia
<
Digest Preferences
FAQ
Profile
Search
Memberlist
2,495 followers
Usergroups
Log in to check your priate messages
Register
Security Tips
Donate
Log in
!arning" Make !arning" Make sure you s can the #o$nloa#e# attachment $ith $ith up#ate# antiirus tools before opening them% They may contain contain iruses% Use online scanners here here an# an# here here to to uploa# #o$nloa#e# attachment to check for safety%
Secondary to Primary beam connections Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
!"e#$%&$a!o'g Fo'() I%&ex *+ I%&ex *+ SEFI Ge%e'a D$"-(""$o% .$e p'e/$o(" top$- 00 top$- 00 .$e %ext top$A(to' (a'%$%)
Me""age Poste#" Tue Aug -). +(-( /"(- am
Post s ub0ect" Secon#ary to Primary beam connections
&eneral Sponsor
Dear safians. 1 al$ays come across the problem $hile mo#eling frame structure in STAAD%PR2% Some of the structural engineers releases the secon#ary beam en# moments M3. My. M45 so that only reaction shoul# get transfere# to primary beam% *o$ my problem is. if secon#ary beam supporting other beams an# resting on primary beam is release# for the moments. $arning for instability occurs% 6o$ to rectify this problem7 1s is 28 if beams are partially release#7
'oine#" () *o +((, Posts" -)
a- to top 'a(!e"$e
Poste#" Tue Aug -). +(-( 9";< am
Post sub0ect"
&eneral Sponsor
Release only M=
'oine#" (- Apr +((9 Posts" :+, Location" Trian#rum
a- to top D'! N! S('a)a%$a%
Poste#" Tue Aug -). +(-( +";, pm
Post s ub0ect" Re" Secon#ary to Primary beam connections
&eneral Sponsor
6i All. 1 someho$ #o not like releasing the en# moments. as in R>>. the 0oints are monolithic an# ho$ #o $e kno$ $hether the structure behaes in the $ay. $e inten#e# them to behae7 1 am happy to note that the soft$are is giing a $arning that there $ill be instability. if you attempt to release en# moments of a secon#ary beam $hich is supporting other beams% !hat the soft$are says is a ali# thing% Though you may circument it by follo$ing the suggestion gien by ?r Rahul. 1 feel that it i s not a goo# practice% !hy #o you $ant to release the en# moments7 >an 'oine#" +- Feb +((9 Posts" :9:9 Location" &aithersburg. MD.
1 f7
$e not check the beams for combine# @M an# Torsion7
22 01 2015 17 51
ww.sefindia.org :: View topic - Secondary to Primary beam connections
U%S%A%
http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8120
This is my personal opinion% 1 reuest other e3perience# engineers like Prof% AR> Bas this kin# of release may be critical for lateral loa#sC. ?r @arua. ?r ikaram0eet. ?r Rangara0an. ?r Mallick. ?r Sura0. ?r Sangeeta an# ?r @harso#a to e3press their ie$s% @est $ishes. Subramanian (a'%$%) 'ote0 Dear safians. 1 al$ays come across the problem $hile mo#eling frame structure in STAAD%PR2% Some of the structural engineers releases the secon#ary beam en# moments M3. My. M45 so that only reaction shoul# get transfere# to primary beam% *o$ my problem is. if secon#ary beam supporting other beams an# resting on primary beam is release# for the moments. $arning for instability occurs% 6o$ to rectify this problem7 1s is 28 if beams are partially release#7
a- to top t$'()aa$-ett$a'
Poste#" !e# Aug -9. +(-( -+"+/ am
Post sub0ect"
Siler Sponsor
Dear ?r%8ulkarninm. The problem of releasing M4 in STAAD is a mo#eling problem an# as ?r%Rahul sai# it can be sole# as per his instruction% There are torsion #ue to" -C E($$'$() of internal an# e3ternal forces 'oine#" +< 'an +((; Posts" ;;,:
+C Co)pat$$$t6 of strains in concrete an# steel >oming to the point raise# by Dr%*%S you hae #ifferent type of Torsion in a structure% The problem state# by is the COM7ATIILIT8 TORSION% This can be release# an# #etailing is ery important at the 0unction $ith Primary beam% As Dr%*%S sai# it is #ifficult to achiee the secon#ary beam as simply supporte# one in practice specially in R%>%> structures% @etter #esign it for torsion an# #etail it carefully% Also in many cases the M4 from analysis may be ery small% 1n many #iscussions in the forum it $as pointe# out that DETAILING is as important as A*ALES1S an# D?S1&*% ?nclose# is a PDF file relate# to the aboe topic $hich gies some goo# i#ea about it% 6ope it is clear% T%Rangara0an%
!arning" Make sure you scan the #o$nloa#e# attachment $ith up#ate# antiirus tools before opening them% They may contain iruses% Use online scanners here an# here to uploa# #o$nloa#e# attachment to check for safety%
to'"$o%!p&# Description" F ilename"
torsion%p#f
Filesi4e"
+;+%+/ 8@
Do$nloa#e#"
-/(, TimeBsC
Do%oa&
a- to top $9a6 "a'a'
Poste#" !e# Aug -9. +(-( /":( am
Post sub0ect"
%%%
1n Staa#. $arnings $ill be gien $hen en# release comman# has been gien at both en#s of a 'oine#" -: Dec +((, Posts" ;-:
member for the follo$ing forces " M3. F3. Fy. F4% M3 release# at both en#s of a member $ill mean the member is capable to rotate about its o$n a3is% F3 release# at both en#s means the member is capable to moe along its o$n a3is% Similar is the case for Fy an# F4% As T% Rangara0an sir tol#. if in #etailing $e proi#e moment connection. $e consi#er *o release at en#s an# if $e consi#er only shear connection $ith shear cleats only at $eb. $e consi#er ?n#
f7
22 01 2015 17 51
ww.sefindia.org :: View topic - Secondary to Primary beam connections
http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8120
Release% This is a#opte# for any kin# of beams i%e% for secon#ary an# also for primary beams in steel structures%
!ith regar#s. @i0ay Sarkar a- to top "&e-!
%$Poste#" !e# Aug -9. +(-( /":/ am
Post sub0ect" Seco n#ary to Primary beam connections
Siler Sponsor
Dear Dr *S 1t is a common practice to release M4 for secon#ary beams to aoi# torsion in Supporting beams5 ho$eer it is ery important to gie a matching en# support Bsec to main beamC#etail $here #eelopment length for top bars is curtaile# to L#G; an# not l#H-(#ia u sually a#opte# for #uctile 0oints% 'oine#" +< 'an +((; Posts" :);
best regar#s Sangeeta !i0 :(ote0 IIIII 2riginal Message IIIII F'o)0 #rnsmani BforumJsefin#ia%org C To0 generalJsefin#ia%org BgeneralJsefin#ia%org C Se%t0 Tues#ay. August -). +(-( 9"(, PM S(9e-t0 KS?F1 Re" Secon#ary to Primary beam connections
6i All. 1 someho$ #o not like releasing the en# moments. as in R>>. the 0oints are monolithic an# ho$ #o $e kno$ $hether the structure behaes in the $ay. $e inten#e# them to behae7 1 am happy to note that the soft$are is giing a $arning that there $ill be instability. if you attempt to release en# moments of a secon#ary beam $hich is supporting other beams% !hat the soft$are says is a ali# thing% Though you may circument it by follo$ing the suggestion gien by ?r Rahul. 1 feel that it is not a goo# practice% !hy #o you $ant to release the en# moments7 >an $e not check the beams for combine# @M an# Torsion7 This is my personal opinion% 1 reuest other e3perience# engineers like Prof% AR> Bas this kin# of release may be critical for lateral loa#sC. ?R @arua. ?r ikaram0eet. ?r Rangara0an. ?r Mallick. an# ?r @harso#a to e3press their ie$s% @est $ishes. Subramanian (a'%$%) 'ote0 Dear safians. 1 al$ays come across the problem $hile mo#eling frame structure in STAAD%PR2% Some of the structural engineers releases the secon#ary beam en# moments M3. My. M45 so that only reaction shoul# get transfere# to primary beam% *o$ my problem is. if secon#ary beam supporting other beams an# resting on primary beam is release# for the moments. $arning for instability occurs% 6o$ to rectify this problem7 1s is 28 if beams are partially release#7
Poste# ia ?mail a- to top /$'a)!9eet
Poste#" !e# Aug -9. +(-( <"-/ am
Post sub0ect" Seco n#ary to Primary beam connections
&eneral Sponsor
To'"$o%;$% )a$% ea)< &(e to Se- ea) *)a$% ea) -o%%e-t$o% $% RCC -o%"t'(-t$o% As e3presse# by Dr *S . the structure $ill behae in its natural $ay an# our assumptions must be close enough to its natural behaior
'oine#" +< 'an +((; Posts" ++-+
1n R>>. A secon#ary beam resting o/e' a main beam $ill make the con#ition as simple support $ithout generating any moment in th e connection 6o$eer $hen a secon#ary beam is )o%o$t$- at $t" e%& $ith main beam to some appreciable #epth. the connection is no longer simply supporte# an# en# moment in sec beam $ill boun#
3 f7
22 01 2015 17 51
ww.sefindia.org :: View topic - Secondary to Primary beam connections
http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8120
to occur .thereby resulting in torsion in the main beam% The e3tent of torsion generate# in main beam $ill #epen# upon many factors" BiC Presence of floor slab BiiC Fle3ural stiffness of sec beam . Torsional stiffness of main beam components on either si#e of sec beam BiiiC Detailing of reinforcement at 0u nction 7'e"e%-e o# #oo' "a This is ery important factor an# realistic behaior of frames . mainIsec beam 0unctions Bin uestionCmust be ie$e# in presence of the floor slabs% Due to presence of floor slab. Torsion generate# $ill be greatly re#uce# #epen#ing upon the #epth of main beam $%r%t sec beam Bsince one of the component force of couple is care# by the slab element present in the structural systemC Exte%t o# to'"$o%0 This $ill be calculate# by #istributing the ?n# moment in proportion of respectie stiffness of three members meeting at 0oint Bin planC i4 Fle3ural stiffness of sec beam. torsional stiffness of main beam portions on either si#e of sec beam% Deta$$%g o# 'e$%#o'-e)e%t at te 9o$%t The 0oint is #eelope# for a partial fi3ity to a llo$ some cracking by proi#ing re#uce# anchorage length% Co&a p'o/$"$o%0 1S :/< B+(((C clause :-%- on Torsion states I% "t'(-t('e" e'e to'"$o% $" 'e($'e& to )a$%ta$% e($$'$(), )e)ee'" "a e &e"$g%e& #o' to'"$o% $% a--o'&a%-e $t 41!2,41!3 a%& 41!4! =oee/e' #o' "(- $%&ete')$%ate "t'(-t('e" e'e to'"$o% -a% e e$)$%ate& 6 'eea"$%g 'e&(%&a%t 'e"t'a$%t", %o "pe-$#$- &e"$g% #o' to'"$o% $" %e-e""a'6 , p'o/$&e& to'"$o%a "t$##%e"" $" %ege-te& $% -a-(at$o% o# $%te'%a #o'-e"! A&e(ate -o%t'$o o# a%6 -'a-$%g $" p'o/$&e& 6 te "ea' 'e$%#o'-e)e%t a" pe' 4>! 1n light of aboe . personally 1 feel that" BiC Torsion calculations may be attempte# in cases $here RCC "a $" %ot p'e"e%t in structural system e%g% Architectural P?R&2LA . 1n#ustrial strucutres $ith rcc beams but cheure# plate flooring an# similar situations BiiC Torsion calculations may be ignore# for R>> structures haing floor slabs in the structural systems but the sec beams must be #esigne# as simply supporte# for @M B$NLNLG
%Detailing at 0unction B0oint C shall facilitate .only .
a partial fi3ity% =oe/e' ,"(- Ma$% ea)" )("t a"o e ta-e& $% &eta$$%g by proi#ing a##itinal shear reinf %Bas a thumb rule II Shear reinf i n main beam may be $orke# out by ignoring theK tcN @ N# relief offere# by concrete to account for some t$istingC% !ith best regar#s ikram0eet
Hi All, I somehow do not like releasing the end moments, as in RCC, the joints are monolithic and how do we know whether the structure behaves in the way, we intended them to behave? I am happy to note that the software is giving a warning that there will be instability, if you attempt to release end moments of a secondary beam which is supporting other beams !hat the software says is a valid thing "hough you may circumvent it by following the suggestion given by #r Rahul, I feel that it i s not a good practice !hy do you want to release the end moments? Can we not check the beams for combined $% and "orsion?
f7
22 01 2015 17 51
ww.sefindia.org :: View topic - Secondary to Primary beam connections
http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8120
"his is my personal opinion I re&uest other e'perienced engineers like (rof ARC )as this kind of release may be critical for lateral loads*, #r $arua, #r +ikaramjeet, #r Rangarajan, #r %allick, #r uraj, #r angeeta and #r $harsoda to e'press their views $est wishes, ubramanian II Poste# ia ?mail a- to top "(a%ta!a&$a'$
Poste#" !e# Aug -9. +(-( <"+< am
Post sub0ect" Re" Secon#ary to Primary beam connections
&eneral Sponsor
As per fig% 9%-< of SP;:%%%a #etaling of simply supporte# beam resting on brick$all is sho$n%%%1n this #iagram the bottom reinforcement $hich is the main ben#ing tension reinforcement e3ten#s L#G; from face of brick $all support to the beam resting on brick$all% 6o$eer no #etailing has been sho$n $hen a secon#ary beams connects a main beam%%%@ut in general this metho# of e3ten#ing L#G; has been a#opte# incase of secon#ary beam connecting main beams by many #eisgners in practice%%for $hich M= is release# in the soft$are like STAAD etc%%%% 6o$eer $e cant hae a pure simply supporte# beam in R>> structure%%some moment $ill al$ays get transferre# once a secon#ay beam is connecte# to a primary beam%%%een if L#G; is proi#e#%% 'oine#" +< 'an +((; Posts" <)(
6ence 1
agree $ith the suggestion gien by respecte# *S that it is al$ays better to #esign the
main beam for combine# torsion an# moment%%% Regar#s. S%A#hikari (a'%$%) 'ote0 Dear safians. 1 al$ays come across the problem $hile mo#eling frame structure in STAAD%PR2% Some of the structural engineers releases the secon#ary beam en# moments M3. My. M45 so that only reaction shoul# get transfere# to primary beam% *o$ my problem is. if secon#ary beam supporting other beams an# resting on primary beam is release# for the moments. $arning for instability occurs% 6o$ to rectify this problem7 1s is 28 if beams are partially release#7 a- to top /$'a)!9eet
Poste#" !e# Aug -9. +(-( ,"+/ am
Post sub0ect" Seco n#ary to Primary beam connections
&eneral Sponsor
I% -o%t$%(at$o% to ea'$e' )a$ o% t$" "(9e-t0 IIIIIIIIIIIIIII III IIIIIIIIIIIIIII III
'oine#" +< 'an +((; Posts" ++-+
1n light of aboe . personally 1 feel that" BiC Torsion calculations may be attempte# in cases $here RCC "a $" %ot p'e"e%t in structural system e%g% Architectural P?R&2LA . 1n#ustrial strucutres $ith rcc beams but cheure# plate flooring an# similar situations BiiC Torsion calculations may be ignore# for R>> structures haing floor slabs in the structural systems but the sec beams must be #esigne# as simply supporte# for @M B$NLNLG
%Detailing at 0unction B0oint C shall facilitate .only .
a partial fi3ity% =oe/e' ,"(- Ma$% ea)" )("t a"o e ta-e& $% &eta$$%g by proi#ing a##itinal shear reinf %Bas a thumb rule II Shear reinf i n main beam may be $orke# out by ignoring theK tcN @ N# relief offere# by concrete to account for some t$istingC% 7'o/$&e "$&e #a-e 'e$%#o'-e)e%t to te exte%t o# >!1? #o' a%6 ea) &ept ;$!e $''e"pe-t$/e o# ea) &ept $)$t < !ith best regar#s ikram0eet II
f7
22 01 2015 17 51
www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Secondary to Primary beam connections
http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8120
Poste# ia ?mail a- to top p'o#!a'-
Poste#" !e# Aug -9. +(-( ,";, am
Post sub0ect" Seco n#ary to Primary beam connections
%%%
1 agree $ith Dr% *S ie$s% Mo#elling assumptions on release of en# moments in the case no$ #iscusse# or in the earlier #iscussion of column 0oint $ith footing Khinge# con#ition $oul# not occur in practice unless the 0oint is engineere# $ith a hinge i n case of column 0unction or the secon#ary beam simply rests on a pe#estal of main beam% There shoul# be no #ifficulty in analy4ing as a monolithic integrate# 0oint% 'oine#" +< 'an +((; Posts" <:9
AR>
2n Tue. Aug -). +(-( at -(";, AM. #rnsmani OforumJsefin#ia%org BforumJsefin#ia%orgC $rote" :(ote0 6i All. 1 someho$ #o not like releasing the en# moments. as in R>>. the 0oints are monolithic an# ho$ #o $e kno$ $hether the structure behaes in the $ay. $e inten#e# them to behae7 1 am happy to note that the soft$are is giing a $arning that there $ill be instability. if you attempt to release en# moments of a secon#ary beam $hich is supporting other beams% !hat the soft$are says is a ali# thing% Though you may circument it by follo$ing the suggestion gien by ?r Rahul. 1 feel that it is not a goo# practice% !hy #o you $ant to release the en# moments7 >an $e not check the beams for combine# @M an# Torsion7 This is my personal opinion% 1 reuest other e3perience# engineers like Prof% AR> Bas this kin# of release may be critical for lateral loa#sC. ?R @arua. ?r ikaram0eet. ?r Rangara0an. ?r Mallick. an# ?r @harso#a to e3press their ie$s% @est $ishes. Subramanian
Poste# ia ?mail a- to top Display posts from preious" All Posts
2l#est First
&o
!"e#$%&$a!o'g Fo'() I%&ex *+ SEFI Ge%e'a D$"-(""$o%
All times are &MT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
7age 1 o# 5 'ump to" S?F1 &eneral Discussion Translation" Translate topic
&o
&o Eou -a%%ot post ne$ topics in this forum Eou -a%%ot reply to topics in this forum Eou -a%%ot e#it your posts in this forum Eou -a%%ot #elete your posts in this forum Eou -a%%ot ote in polls in this forum Eou -a%%ot attach files in this forum Eou -a% #o$nloa# files in this forum
+((;. +((9 S?F1*D1A. 1n#ian Domain Registration
6 f7
22 01 2015 17 51
www.sefindia.org :: View topic - Secondary to Primary beam connections
http://www.sefindia.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8120
Structural Engineering Forum of India You like this.
Structural Engineering Forum of India shared Phoenix Webtech Private Limited's album. 6 hrs
You and 66,045 others like Structural Engineering Forum of India.
Facebook social plugin
t"(%a)$ ea't(ae
7 f7
oice of America I US School to Proi#e ertical Tsunami Refuge >*@> I >alifornia not rea#y for uakesIan# theyre coming
po$ere# by po$ere# by
22 01 2015 17 51
