CHICK COREA & STANLEY CLARKE MASTERCLASS [Chick and Stanley playing piano and bass] [Audience claps] Stanley Clarke: Yes. Yes. Chick Corea: Okay! Welcome my friend. I would like to thank you all for coming tonight, by the way, and nice to see you in our, Mad Hatter East. SC: That’s right. CC: Mad Hatter East. SC: Nice to see Mad Hatter East. I remember Mad Hatter West, so, well, you know, so now you’re over here and we got Mad Hatter East over here. It’s beautiful. CC: Thank you for helping me christen it. SC: Absolutely. Absolutely. CC: Yea. My buddy. We took a photo back there.... SC: Yea. CC: That’s the original “Romantic Warrior” painting. SC: Yea, yea. CC: And you can’t - you might not be able to see it from here, but that little snapshot on the left, that’s Miles Davis. SC: Yea. Our buddy. CC: Laney and I were talking last night and he was using the term heritage. SC: Heritage. Yea.
CC: It’s our heritage. SC: Yea. CC: Anyway, I, I would like to, I would like to ! you mind if I introduce you? SC: Please! CC: Because we’re ! you know, we have a nice studio audience here, but we also we’re filming this... SC: That’s right. CC: And this is going to go out and I ! there’s a camera there and a camera there. Cameras all around. And so I, I’ve never really, properly, introduced you before. SC: Can I read the script first?
[Chick does funny gesture with script and audience laughs] SC: Let’s see. CC: Well, well you know, here’s, this is, this is all, this introduction is my opinion. It’s my personal opinion. SC: There you go. CC: I’d like to introduce a genius. SC: Hey! Okay ! CC: Cool! be cool. SC: Okay, okay. CC: Watch out now! SC: Alright, watch out! CC: Okay. Be cool. I’d like to introduce a genius. First, of the bass. Now let’s just take the bass as an instrument. We have the acoustic bass, this is the traditional guy, you
know, coming from the violin family, which Stanley has geniusly not only mastered in many different ways, but has innovated all kinds of music and techniques and way of playing the instrument, way of getting the sound out of the instrument as well. Not just acoustically, but in combination with amplification. There’s no one else who makes an acoustic bass sound like Stanley Clarke. Total innovation. [audience begins to clap] CC: No, wait, wait, wait. That’s only the beginning of the ! SC: That’s just a sliver of what I do ! please! [laughs] CC: We’ve only just begun because tonight, tonight you won’t see the electric bass. We didn’t bring the electric bass. But just as much of an innovator on the acoustic bass, Stanley is on the electric bass. When, in fact, in fact, well you were playing electric bass well before we met, but.. SC: Exactly. You know, I didn’t play it that much ! I think prior to us meeting, you know, I was playing with Joe Henderson, I was playing with Art Blakey, but I played electric bass with Horace Silver. CC: Yea. SC: You know, so I was playing a bit ! It was pretty, pretty... CC: A little bit. SC: Yea! CC: But when we put Return to Forever together you basically played the acoustic bass until a certain point we started to use it and then in the second version of Return to Forever you brought out the electric bass. SC: The electric bass. CC: Electric bass. So on the electric bass the genius of Stanley is, again, in the area of total innovation. Is ! what he does musically with the electric bass is unprecedented. I mean he, I’m sure you can talk about your influences and so forth but, but as far as setting a standard for the playing of the electric bass and musically, not just technically, but musically as well, and what he gets out of that instrument ! so that’s genius. Bass genius. That’s number one.
SC: I’m embarrassed. CC: Number two, is, composer genius. Let’s go to composer genius. So, as a composer, totally an innovator again, starting from the songs that he began to write with Return to Forever and then going on to a long lifetime of repertoire that he’s made. Not only in the composition of songs, but the arrangement of them for, for various small groups, jazz and fusion or whatever you want to call the various forms, up until the point where Stanley Clarke became a genius of movie score writing. SC: Wow! CC: So this compositional thing turned into this ! SC: I’m tired! I’m tired. CC: ! other, this other Stanley Clarke universe. I’ve never introduced you before properly. SC: Yea! this is ! CC: Is this all right? SC: This is a heck of an intro. CC: Yea. Yea, I’m going to continue a bit ! SC: Please. CC: Cause a, yea, so, so that’s the composer. So now we go to the genius of Stanley Clarke as a bandleader. Because that’s a very particular kind of a thing that a musician does when he gathers other musicians around him and how he treats that situation and how he makes it into a team and how he communicates his own music as a composer and as a player with these other musicians and the resultant music that comes out of that takes, well, it takes whatever it takes and in my opinion there’s a genius there in Stanley with his various bands throughout the years. In fact, one of your recent bands and recordings, won a Grammy, last year? SC: Yea, yea. The band that we had with ! let’s see with Hiromi, piano, Ruslan Sirota played the keyboards and young Ronald Bruner played drums, Charles Altura, who plays with you and I was in there and a few others and yea we won I think it was 2011 ! Contemporary Jazz Artist or Group Album something of the year.
CC: Yea, much deserved. So, that’s a snippet of the genius the band leader and basically my opinion is that Stanley is a, an innovator in every sense of the word musically, so he’s rightly looked up to by young musicians and by older musicians, like me, and we still have that ten year gap.
[audience laughter] SC: That ten-year gap! [laughs] Yea, I can always tell my birthday by how old he is, you know?
[laughter] CC: Okay. Just a few quick credits and then I’ll finish with my intro. SC: Okay. CC: Which is a, you know, Stanley and I come up in the music that was being innovated and created in the late 50s, actually I was in the late ‘50s you came round in the ‘60s and ‘70s and you had ten years with Pharoah Sanders, with Sun Ra. SC: Well, I played with Pharoah Sanders, I played with Sun Ra... CC: Horace Silver. SC: Horace Silver. CC: This is my intro, man. [audience laughs] SC: It’s cool, man, please. CC: Pharoah Sanders, Sun Ra, Horace Silver, one of my favorite musicians of all time. The great Joe Henderson. Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. We both played in that band. SC: Yea and there’s only a few of us in The Messengers ! that’s a big deal, Chick. The Jazz Messengers. CC: That’s right. Yea. Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers. Now, that, that was in the jazz field but Stanley has also collaborated and played with many, many musicians outside of the jazz field. Two of which I know about, and I’m sure there are many more, is Paul McCartney and The Rolling Stones.
SC: Absolutely. CC: I mean, not ‘Paul McCartney and The Rolling Stones’ I mean, ‘Paul McCartney’ and ‘The Rolling Stones.’ Two separate things. SC: It wasn’t ! yea [laughs]. CC: And, so, there it is. All the greats in and out of jazz, Stanley’s played with. Ladies and gentlemen, Stanley Clarke.
[Audience claps] SC: Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, I’m very happy to be here and I’m really happy this thing that Chick is doing, I thought I’d come and lend a hand here, cause it’s really important. Chick is a, you know, one of the greatest composers, American composers of all time and pianist and he’s influenced so many people and you know it’s nice sometimes when you see a great musician who really could sort of hide and be back in his room and kind of, you know, windows shut, shades down, and that’s kind of cool you know, that’s okay, but it’s nice to see a guy who is comfortable with coming out and spreading the love and spreading the education because you know it’s a really good thing to educate people and pass things down.
It’s funny I always feel kind of funny saying that, ‘passing something down’ I gotta come up with a better wording but it’s just nice, your young musicians need that. I wish when I was younger that Miles Davis came on TV and did a master class or something ! wouldn’t that have been nice? [Audience agreement] [Everyone starts laughing] SC: Come on guys! That was a joke! (mumbled) So serious! ‘Oh yea’ [acts out Miles Davis doing it] CC: I cannot picture Miles Davis doing a master class, but ! I know what you mean. SC: It was a cool picture, it was a cool thing to think up there but you know, he didn’t do that. But anyway, Chick feels comfortable doing this and it’s great he wants to do it and you know I love that thing and we’re doing it and I really hope you enjoy this time that we’re going to have with you today. Yea.
CC: Thanks, Stanley. Thank you very, very much. Well, you know, let’s, this is, what we’re doing here is sometimes I think about it as a, I call it a workshop. This is Chick Corea’s music workshop but, and the basic intention that we’ve always had actually, from way back, is to help each other, help musicians and what’s the best way we can help? How to know some times is the best way we can help.
What I’ve been finding recently is if I just make myself available to hang and be with musicians and see what comes up and see which ways I can help then some cool things result. So, the way, what do you think about, we played a little bit... by the way, that little theme that we were playing before, that was from the first recording that we did together with Return To Forever called ! SC: Some Time Ago. CC: Some Time Ago. Yea. And we should play some more but lets, what do you say we check a question now. SC: Yea! CC: Now, Bill Rooney is our host. Bill’s the kinda like a moderator. He’s our ! Bill Rooney : Ed McMahon. CC: Ed, he’s our Ed McMahon.
[laughter] SC: Yea, he is. He’s got a smile on. CC: So, in the past week or so we’ve been promoting to our mailing list, asking them if they have a question that they’d like to ask Stanley or me or both. BR: Yea, well ! CC: Do you have one for us? BR: I’ve got several that I thought were great, but actually it’s only been the last couple days. This came together quick, you know. We sent out for questions and we got just a huge inflow of tons of questions, amazing admiration for you guys. Of course a lot of comments and questions about Return to Forever because as these are musicians it’s obviously a huge influence on many many people. But we’ll save some of those for later.
I picked one because I found it interesting and I know you guys deal with this. This is from Greg. He’s from the US and he plays guitar. But since the range of the piano goes down into the bass register and the bass goes way up into the pretty high notes, how do these two instruments play intricate improvisation lines and stay out of each others way? And do you two in particular have any strategies or agreements when playing together, about this? SC: Well, you know, there’s actually a couple answers to that question. Start spitting them out there ! you know, for me, when I play with musicians that have tremendous virtuosity on their instrument first of all, you know which means they can pretty much play pretty much whatever they’re thinking and have the technical ability, the dexterity on their instrument to play.
But, that’s fine, but what makes it really special, if that person is a composer and has a mind for orchestration and has the ability to have that come through his instrument, you know, it’s only natural. Like, if you’re a orchestrator in your orchestra or composing something for an orchestra, you’re not gonna have like the cellos playing a low c, the basses, the trombones, you know, everyone down here [simulates low sounding instruments] you know, you’re going to have somebody up here, it’s kind of a, it’s just a natural, it’s almost natural. You know, I would tell this guy to just kind of go with the flow, don’t think about it too much. It’s the worst thing to do in music I think is to think too much about anything cause, you know, what you’re hearing is, you know, is what you wanna do, what you mock up is beautiful. And just do it, get it out the best way you can, it’ll sound fine. BR: Nice. SC: Yea. CC: How about we demonstrate that part? SC: Yea, let’s do it. CC: Let’s, you know, you know, we’ve never really talked about how the sounds arranges the piano and the bass. I mean, have we? I don’t remember us ever talking about that. SC: No, no, we’ve never in all the years.
CC: So, could you hear the both instruments pretty clearly, I thought. It’s kind of dipping up and down, and around. Sometime what I did, you know, in order to clarify the orchestration was to stop playing a couple bars. Sometimes I notice that when an accompanist is accompanying a soloist he just plays all the time and it doesn’t have to be that way. If you’re making an orchestration as a soloist, just let him play alone for a little while. SC: Patience is my word. Have a little patience, you know? Like, you know, one of the things I really like when you’re playing along a chorus and you take the blues and you’re playing a chorus or something and then you know, conventional wisdom might tell you ! right at the last notes of those blues. But some players if you listen to early Miles Davis records and Coltrane they all play right into the next chorus that they’re going to end in. And so, if you’re a soloist standing there, you don’t want to start “baa!’ right at the top, you want to wait. So it really requires listening, and having patience. It’s a wonderful thing. CC: Yea, yea, yea. That was fun man. SC: Yea man, I liked that. CC: That was a song we played on our tour. SC: Yea. CC: Let’s take another one! BR: Okay cool, well this is from Albert and he’s from Vienna, Austria. CC: From Vienna? BR: He plays the piano. CC: Okay. BR: And he’s a beginner, which I love when beginners write in. For a beginner in jazz improvisation, would you recommend to learn improvised solos from records, note by note, if yes, what is the best method for doing this? CC: Oh! That’s a real good question.
SC: Really good question. CC: That’s a very, very astute question. What’s his name? BR: Albert. CC: Albert? Good question, man. And very briefly, my two cents, is that transcribe, I mean playing an improvised solo from a record is a good idea. The best way to do it is to transcribe it yourself.
In other words, you might be able to go out and buy a book of Charlie Parker solos, or Bill Evans solos or someone had already transcribed it to solo and you could do that and I guess that what you’re doing is you’re getting the original solo which is then interpreted by someone who edited it down and now you’re reading the edit so it’s not direct. So the best thing to do is get the recording that you like, the solo that you like, and painstakingly transcribe the notes. Slow it down if you have to, take it a like bar at a time, or something, you know. Learning to transcribe by ear and writing down the result is a great exercise in and of itself and then, you know, you can learn to play it or whatever so, that’s my, gee I don’t know how to demonstrate that, it would take too long. SC: It’s a good thing, just to add to what Chick’s sayin. Sometime if you’re going to transcribe solos, like jazz solos, it’s usually going to be on top of chord changes and at some point, personally I don’t like to think about it too much but it is a good exercise to understand chord to scale relationship, you know, like these jazz players are playing and they’re playing a lot of blues and there’s a scale and there’s an F7 chord well there’s probably two, three, scales you can use on top of an F7.
So say you transcribe this, this solo, this 32 bar solo and then you go somewhere and get the changes and you can like, you know, put the change up on that bar and look at the notes the guy is playing. And you’ll see that if you really get into it you’ll find some semblance of what scale he’s looking at or not looking at. It’s funny, I was playing with Joe Henderson, and I think Chick’s like this too, and Herbie Hancock. I said, ‘man, you know, you play on changes?’ ‘No.’ He’s just not thinking of changes cause once you get beyond changes, most jazz standards have melodies, you know you’re playing off of standard tunes and sometimes a great way of improvising is you have actually, some idea of the scales but follow the melody.
Like the, you know, like Coltrane is so fun when you listen to Coltrane and he played so many notes you might think he was sitting there, and of course he did, he looked at books and he looked at scales but he was a tremendous melodic player. I mean you’d hear him turn the page on this chord and go onto this chord and you know if you listen to the melody and especially when he’s doing standards you hear it in the melody. It’s a very, there’s a lot of levels to get into but when Chick says you start there, but then you’ll find you’ll just keep going to other echelons of understanding in soloing. CC: That’s cool. I was just trying to think of one thing we could do to maybe demonstrate a little bit of what you were saying was if we took a chord progression and kinda broke it apart a little bit, like a, you know play a line on it and then play another line on it. Not a hard chord progression. SC: “All Blues”? CC: “All Blues” is a good idea. So, let’s do that for a minute. Now this is a song that Miles Davis - that actually the melody to this song is very, very, very simple. And the chord changes are very, very simple too. So, let’s just - the basic sound of the song is this [demonstrates on piano] and then the second change stays on the same base note in G but it changes to this sound [demonstrates on piano] from a G with a [demonstrates] I hate to use terms but it’s a G7. And then the second chord is a G minor chord. So the scale for the first one is [demonstrates on piano].
[Stanley on bass] CC: Yea so we just played some phrases just with that scale, so now the second scale is this. [both demonstrate] SC: So as a bass player, one of the things I do, which I learned from Ron Carter, is to master this, say that second change is a G, play the ! but because of the way the melody goes, Ron would put a C [demonstrates] so play the A 2nd. [playing together] So you hear that G feeling? Now I’ll change ! [demonstrates] you hear it? And as a bass player, speaking of chords, if you understand chords, you’ll know what note to change that will alter his chord dramatically. Put in another thing and then he’s hip and I’m hip and we’re just hip. CC: So that’s the second chord. There’s the G chord then the G minor chord. Then it goes to these kind of these they’re kind of funny chord because of the way they’re voiced... voicing is the way you put notes together but it follows the melody [demonstrates] it’s a D7th, but it’s voiced like this [demonstrates]. And then to an E flat
[continues playing] and then back to the G. Right? So ! let’s, let’s trade choruses. [demonstrates] I’m playing the melody. [both playing] CC: Here’s the vamp again. SC: Huh? CC: The vamp.
[Continue playing] CC: Okay now here’s some different notes. It’s a different scale. [demonstrates] So that’s staying inside the chord, right? And this is outside the chord. Basically, you can choose any note you want.
[Audience laughs and claps] SC: There’s a lot of truth in what Chick says here. You can be amazed with what you can do with music, bend it, the conviction and the mock up is there, you really want to do that and you believe in it, you know? The chord will bend. CC: But I think it’s a nice gradient between... [laughter from audience] What? I’m sorry. SC: I’m saying the chord will bend. CC: It will bend. But it’s a nice gradient between what you said, having to do with learning what notes with what scales, that we agree on. You know, like the sound that we agree on this sound here [demonstrates] the notes that “fit” quote unquote are these [demonstrates] right?
But if I played [demonstrates] that doesn’t, it’s not part of the original agreement, but you could make anything work. [demonstrates] Or even stranger [demonstrates]. So, but it’s a good, so you learn the notes in the scale and then you just, you have to play what you hear anyway. Where did we start with that question? I think we took it out into the ozone. SC: Is that Albert?
[Audience laughter]
BR: It was Albert and it was about, you know, learning solos for records. CC: This is young Albert, right? Oh Albert wanted to learn solos ! SC: Albert! CC: Albert! Albert! Albert! BR: Did you guys do that? Did you guys take records and learn solos, note for note? CC: I did. SC: I did a little bit of that, I did a little bit of that ! yea, I did that. I mean I had this record player that I could turn down, you know, turn the [mumbled] you know, you know I actually became a better transcriber later. When I started out it was pretty lame, when i was 15, 16, but when I got up in my teens, it got better. CC: Do you know the, have you come across that little computer thing called the Amazing Slow Downloader? SC: Yea, yea, yea. CC: See, uh, what’s his name? Albert! Albert! Albert! See, if you use a computer, which you probably do, if you get the MP3 of the file, the digital file of the song you want to transcribe and you put it in this little application called the Amazing Slow Downloader you can change the speed of it without changing the pitch and you can slow things down and hear it, that kind of could be a help. But yea, go ahead and transcribe. SC: Yea, transcribe is great. CC: Yea. Alright. So, what should we do? What would you like to do, Stanley? SC: You know, let’s round off with one more question. Do you have like a really good one there, Bill? BR: Well, there’s a lot of really good ones. SC: And then we’ll, you know, play something. BR: You know, there’s one here that, like ! CC: We could play something now and then !
SC: We could play now ! CC: Let’s playing something now ! or do you have a question? BR: Well it might lead to something. Might lead to something. So this is Allen from the US. CC: Allen! Allen! Allen! BR: A-L-L-O-N so it might be our friend from Tampa. CC: It’s a cute little thing, some comedy thing, it’s this chipmunk that says “Allon! Allon! Allon!” I’m sorry man! SC: It’s cool. BR: I missed that one. CC: Is everything all right? SC: Did you see that, Bill? That show? BR: No. SC: I’ll show you that ! BR: Okay, he’s a piano player, also plays trumpet and sings. Is that him? So our guy from Tampa, Allon. This is a fingering question for both of you. When a melody unison line is written on the piano and a bass player has to play it with you, does the bass player come up with the unique fingering to accommodate the line, and vice versa? CC: I would think there would be no other way to do it. There’s some lines that Stanley writes that sound and look real natural when he plays them and when I try to play them I have to really work out something special. SC: Same way with me. I think, yea. One of the things I love about what we did as composers, and relationship to us players, is we wrote a lot of music and we composed music. And we maybe, maybe, I don’t know in Chick’s case, but I didn’t think a lot, so much pianistically, you know what I mean? I wrote and I had an idea and ‘I can hear a
guy playing that,’ but some of the things are a little finger twisters, you know, and like many of Chick’s tunes ! one of the things I loved about playing with Chick’s music is that it was very friendly for the bass. CC: Really? SC: Yea, because it’s hard. We should play ‘No Mystery’ next. That’s a tune that you can’t just walk up on it, you know, you just play the song by the Temptations and then you just go “now I’m gonna play ‘No Mystery.’”
I’m just gonna be honest. Straight out, gonna be real, as Doug. E Fresh would say. You know you just can’t walk up on that song. You have to sit down. You have to look at the fingering, you have to look at the bass and figure out, now, you have to look at the fingering but there’s also sound on the bass. One of the things I like to do on the bass is, many ways you can play things on the bass but to get something to sound good, it has to be on the proper string. And it, you know, I can play an F here, I could go ! [demonstrates] you know? I could even go here. [demonstrates] That doesn’t sound too good, right? But what if I had to play something after that, you know like [demonstrates] I have to keep going, am I gonna have to [demonstrates] I’m going to have to come up with a fingering that makes sense with the physics of the phrase, you know? CC: You know what would be a cool thing to demonstrate? The first couple phrases of “No Mystery” how you worked out the fingering. Let me play it on the piano, slower, and then so you can see the fingering on the piano is pretty simple. [demonstrates] Right? SC: Right, so I’m going to go [demonstrates] you know, so that’s the best way. CC: That looks real simple though. SC: Yea I think that’s the simplest fingering to play the thing. But if I go [demonstrates]. CC: Ahhh!
[Audience laughs] CC: Oh right. Take the first three notes. Play the first three notes like in their original position. Alright, now play those three notes in the position you played them in. There. So you have to work out that kind of thing.
SC: Yea, so, yea you have to just you know, I love doing that. I love like, I take like cello pieces, violin pieces, you know, music written for those instruments and just for the heck of it I’ll sit down and try and play them and some of the stuff I can play and lot of it I physically can’t play.
It might be too high or just the the jump, but what it does is, I like to sit down and look at a piece and just get into the fingering. I could spend a whole day doing that. You know, it’s a beautiful, case there’s a bit of mathematics, there’s a bit of a, there’s a couple abilities in there to pull that off. It’s very nice, it’s very cool, I love that. CC: Wanna play the first part of the song for them? SC: Definitely. Yea, let’s do it. CC: Okay, so ! SC: That’s the way young guys play, yea? Let’s do it. CC: Ready?
[Both start playing “No Mystery”] CC: Let’s try it now.
[Keep playing] [Audience claps] SC: That’s some fingering there, right? Yea! Thank you, thank you. That’s a wonderful piece. That’s actually, could possibly be my favorite piece of yours. I love that piece, perfectly written ! for the bass. It’s a real, it’s a great piece for a bass, for a bass player to play. CC: You have some great renditions with your band. So, what was the question? I think that was Allon’s question. BR: Yea. About fingering.
[Audience laughs] SC: Well, that was it. That’s it, that did it. I mean, that fingering is important I think going from one instrument even going to piano.
CC: I mean you wrote some stuff in “After the Cosmic Rain,” I don’t know if you wrote it on the piano. SC: I did. CC: You wrote it on the piano? SC: Slow though. Very slowly. CC: Because the song is impossible to play on the piano. SC: If you play it very slow though ! CC: We don’t play it very slow though. And then, so, we could show those phrases. SC: Yea, let’s do that. CC: One more little demonstration of that which in the part I’m thinking of is this part. [demonstrates on piano] How does it go? Oh there it is. [demonstrates] Let me hear how you play that on the bass? SC: I only play [demonstrates] CC: Oh! but you wrote these notes. SC: You must be crazy. No man. It’s Chick Corea, man! CC: [demonstrates] first let’s play the phrase. Oh wait what is it? One more time. Sorry. [demonstrates] Oh there’s an E in that part there. One more time for me. [demonstrates] What’s that first note? B flat? SC: Yea it’s a B Flat chord with a G flat and A flat and a D flat. There it is. Then it’s a G A C F sharp. CC: Okay, one more time. [demonstrates] Ah, I’m sorry. Anyway, let me slow that down. [demonstrates] See, now, you wrote [demonstrates] and it has to be played [demonstrates] yea with two hands I got it! [keeps playing] That’s what I had to do. Is that cool with the composer? SC: I’m cool with anything.
CC: Let’s play the theme. I hate to cut it up like that.
[Both play] CC: Want to try the ending? SC: Yeah, that’s nice. Nice piece. That was like- I think you wrote Hymn of the Seventh
Galaxy. I think you played it for me. I wrote that. That was the- your Hymn was the first piece and that was the second piece. CC: That’s right. The second piece on that record. SC: That was really, wow. We were really young back then. We’d just play. Many years. CC: Many years. That’s beautiful. “After the Cosmic Rain,” Stanley Clarke. What do you think? What would you like to do? Should we do another question? SC: Let’s do another question. Is there another one there? CC: Do one more question. BR: I think an appropriate one too. This is simple then I have one I’d like to ask. When you played “No Mystery,” for those that don’t know, you’re the composer on that, you talked about it, but you never mentioned that’s a Chick tune and the last one you played is your tune. “Cosmic Rain.” CC: “ After the Cosmic Rain,” Stanley Clarke. “After the Cosmic Rain” is from our secondSC: That was our first electric album. CC: It was our third record. “Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy.” BR: I have a question from Gony, from Israel. He’s a drummer. CC: From who? BR: From Gony. CC: G-O BR: G-O-N-Y.
CC: N-Y. Thank you. BR: He’s actually asking about this record. This is your second electric record. Where Have I Known You Before? And he wanted to know: How much did RTF rehearse prior to, maybe not this particular recording, before any recording and also before a tour ? SC: We had some healthy rehearsals. One of the things that was nice about that band was that we rehearsed not just for the notes. Each guy in the band could read music to various degrees. Various amounts. But we got the notes pretty quick. It’s just because our music had transitions to it. Especially bigger pieces.
Like the pieces Chick wrote. Then eventually when we got into the Romantic Warrior album, we wrote- all of us wrote pieces that had little suites, that had different sections. It was difficult at first but we smoothed it out to make it sound like all one piece. Then we also had the element, which comes from our jazz heritage, which is our improvisation part. So you have these songs that the lines have to be played pristine but then we also have to have solos and make them feel like what we do. I remember having lots of rehearsals. I’ll tell you a funny story. We actually were- I don’t know if this is a real English word but my mother used to say this a lot. “Stanley you’re so bodacious.” Is that a word? We were so bodacious one time that we actually went and charged people to come watch us rehearse. Yes we did. In Denver Colorado at Ebbets Field. Remember that place that all the rugs? We’d play- we’d take a tune like one of the Hymns. I think by that point we had, this is one of my favorite tunes, it was called Beyond the Seventh Galaxy. Started with this F. F pedal. Had all these things. Maybe it could have been Hymn. CC: It was Beyond. SC: We’d play it and get maybe 15 bars. But those 15 bars were so fresh and new cause no one sounded like us. It was so new and we’d just stop and go, “Hold on!” And the audience would go- you’d hear them go “huh!” Like that, cause it was really something. We were playing extremely loud but extremely precise. I mean the bass cabinets were blasted. Chick had this horn that was just - I could be deaf now.
CC: Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Allen. Allen. SC: Anyway, we were young lions and you really heard that music. The only word that I can describe it is being unleashed within a form. We played the notes but there was this sense of being unleashed as musicians. CC: Everyone liked to rehearse. SC: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We loved it. We loved to rehearse. CC: We enjoyed it. SC: It was pumped. I remember we played a whole gig like that. We rehearsed. They were there like this. It paid money to come see us rehearse. If any of you are out there. Hey! CC: I actually announce to my audiences, even to this day, welcome to my rehearsal. And sometimes I’m playing with the band, and if something should be a little tighter or if we’re doing a new piece, I just stop the band, have a joke and say, “Can we take it from this part?” It’s real. Doug E. Fresh says, “Keep it real. “ SC: Keep it real. So it’s a cool thing. Rehearsals are cool. BR: Did you go out and tour first and then record? Or the other way? SC: We always rehearse before we went out I think. CC: Before recording. BR: Did you tour before recording? CC: Yeah we did. We did it the- it’s that sequence. I kind of like that sequence. We rehearsed a lot. Then we toured a lot. Then we went into the recording studio and then it just went down.
The first Return to Forever record. Do you have it there? This record here, I’ll never forget, the first tune we played was some time ago. We rehearsed. This music wasn’t difficult but we played it a lot on tour. We played a lot of concerts. We had this set really down and we went into the recording studio with Tony May with Airto, Flora, Joe Farrell,
you and me. I had just the Fender Rhodes. You had just the acoustic bass. Joe Farrell had flute, saxophone. Flora singing, Airto on drums. We were all in the same room and we played- we turned on the tape recording we played the set down. We didn’t stop, we just went from one song to another. We played the set down. Then he ran out of tape after- he would signal when there was not enough tape. SC: We couldn’t afford some more tape. CC: He changed the tape and then we played the rest of the set. But basically we played our live set down straight. There was no editing. SC: Yeah it was great. A similar - not quite that extreme, but in “Light as a Feather.” That was pretty quick. We only did a couple takes. Those records were done fast. I love that. One of the things I loved about doing a lot of jazz records back in those days, it was just swish. No fixing solos, no fixing notes.
I still get amazed at “Light as a Feather” - well these two records. I think this one, “Light as a Feather” and that one are my favorite of all the Return to Forever records. The “Light as a Feather” record actually really sticks out in my mind because there’s some remarkable playing on that record. We didn’t go and fix anything. That was it. It’s cool. Sometimes when I record with young guys right now, (and not to diminish this particular process here,) it’s interesting, “Let me fix that note. Let me do this and do that.” And I’m all, “No man! Leave it! Leave it.” I go, “Man do you know, on Light as a Feather man?” The guy goes, “Get out of here, Light as a Feather. Get out of here.” 100 years ago. I go “Okay.” But hey man, that was what was happening. It was great. CC: Another question. BR: This is Mark from the US, and he’s a guitar player. I hope this question gets across, cause I really know what he’s asking and I really want to know. I notice with many improvisers that the phrases go across the bar line at the same time the bass and drums are improvising to the extent that its difficult to hear the changes in the song from. When I improvise I find it difficult to do this unless I hear a distinct downbeat in the form of the song. Is this in the matter of everyone keeping the form in their head and not relying on hearing the form from the rhythm section?
CC: Let me take that. SC: I’m looking at you, babe. CC: Let me take that. SC: I’m looking at you. CC: I understand, what’s his name? BR: He’s Mark. CC: Mark. Okay, Mark! Mark! Mark! Mark! Check it out. The thing is, is that any time, here’s a little suggestion, anytime you feel a little confusion going on, not able to follow something, something is like- you could think of it like too much information coming that you can’t process. In order to understand it you have to cut it back.
So let’s cut it back to form. The musicians are improvising on a form, then you find what the form is. Let’s demonstrate a couple of different forms. The form that we were playing on our “After the Cosmic Rain,” was very simple it was two changes. It was this. [Plays piano.] That’s the beginning of the form. [Continues.] Second part. So that’s it. That’s the form. So let’s fool around with the form a little bit. [Continues.] Then we hit the top of the form together. We went around like that. The idea is if you know the form first, it kind of just goes in. That’s a real simple form ‘cause it’s one chord, then it’s another chord, then it’s a little block. Let’s try the form on “Light as a Feather” in theSC: The solo part? CC: Yeah, in the solo part. It’s a long reform but let me show you what it is. [Plays piano.] Okay here’s the beginning of the form. [Continues.] Now we’re coming to the end of the form. Here’s the top of the form again. [Continues.] Okay the end of this tune again. Play something at the top. [Continues.] SC: This is swing. CC: There’s the top you see. That’s a longer form and it has a bunch of different chord changes in it. But once you get the form in mind, then you can do whatever you want with it. There was the form then going over the form, soon as you get that together then you can...
When it’s too confusing that means you don’t have the form solid enough understood. And when you have the form understood- So you take it on a lower gradient and start some place where you get the form real solid then start to experiment with putting stuff on top of the form then it comes a counter- becomes like a counter thing. Cause if you just play like this it can get boring. [Plays piano.] SC: You’ll hear it better like that. CC: I’m bored as hell right now. SC: Now wait a minute. I have at least three more bars then I get bored. I have another three more bars. He’s a little - there was a tune when I was really young. I forget what album. Miles Davis’ album a tune called “ESP.” I could never understand that thing, when I was a kid, when he got up so far.
What I used to do was basically do - I used to sit down at the piano and I could bang out the chords and I would just break it down. Then I started listening to their version of it. And basically that’s how I learned that tune. I’d just hold notes in my head. [Hums notes.] And then everything made sense. Miles’ solo made sense. Especially Wayne Shorter’s solo made sense. CC: That’s one of the thing that I think confuses someone trying to listen to a jazz solo, when they don’t understand the form of the song. Then the soloist sounds like randomly all these notes. And it’s not. It’s usually not. It’s usually constructed over a form. Mark? BR: Yeah Mark. CC: Mark! Mark! Mark! Learn the form! The form! The form! SC: That’s it. Get with the form. Gayle Moran: Excuse me. Could we just hear the story about “Light as a Feather”? Isn’t there a story? SC: “Light as a Feather.” Oh that’s a beautiful story. CC: Question from my lovely wife. Gail. What’s the question? SC: The story about “Light as a Feather.” It’s a story about generosity. Please don’t start crying. But anyway, I may start. But anyway, I was young, in New York, playing. I
wrote music but I wasn’t- I didn’t have a serious composer-like, “I’m a composer.” I did not have that thing. I remember me and Chick were playing, it was right before “Light as a Feather,” and he says, “You know man,” I don’t know why. That’s interesting, I never figured out why, he said “Man, you need to write something for the record.” I said, “Get out of here, man. You know I don’t compose. That’s you. I don’t do that. I play the bass.” He says, “No man, just do it.” He kept at it, in a nice way. He made a deal with me, he said “If you write a tune for the album, I will name the album after your tune.” I said, “Get out of here, are you crazy?” He said “Nah, serious.” And Chick looked really genuine in what he was saying and so wrote this tune. It was the tune “Light as a Feather.” I wrote the tune, the album was called “Light as a Feather.” The reason I say its a cool thing, a generous thing. I think you were 29 and I was 19. You were late 20’s. This is kind of a word for bandleaders. When you have young people in your band, encourage the guys to do all the things that will eventually turn them into good leaders because, in my opinion, what makes a really good band is not just- there are bands where you’re not aware of the leaders but there’s always some guy there. There’s always a person there that’s like, “Okay, lets get this together.” He may be behind the scenes or not. But it was a very cool thing. Very generous thing. He could’ve said, “Get out of here.” Like some other guys. But he’s a very generous guy. That’s a great story. I love telling the story. Now why did you- did you hear something I composed? CC: No it was because- as we were playing- we had a lot of concerts on that first album. We played that first repertoire quite a bit. We traveled around Europe, we went to Japan, we were all over the United States. We played that music a lot.
You were laying bass solos on a lot of the songs. I just noticed you constructed your bass solos very melodic, especially at the beginning of the bass solos. You had a sense of organization about how you made your solo. To me, that was already composing. So if you weren’t writing it down, it was obvious the next step to write it down. Plus the fact, I wanted to kind of expand the directional viewpoint of the band by having input from the players. You were my major partner in Return to Forever. We were the first- you were the first one I found to play my music. Cause Stanley wanted to play my music. Then we found Airto, then we found Flora. So my intention was to expand the music. But also, I knew you would be able to come up with something.
SC: That’s cool. CC: That was a pretty cool first tune. “Light as a Feather.” Let’s play the theme. SC: Yeah.
[Plays song.] CC: Beautiful. SC: “Light as a Feather.” CC: Stanley Clarke. “Light as a Feather.” Audience: Who wrote the lyrics? SC: Flora. CC: Flora Purim wrote the lyrics. SC: I said, “Light as a Feather.” She was a great musician. Flora. Very creative. What do you say we end off on inviting Gayle up to sing with us? GM: Are you kidding me? How? Is there a mic? BR: Yes there’s a mic. It’s on its way. SC: “500 Miles High.” CC: Yeah it’s kind of like a little bit of a theme song. Want to do “500 Miles High”? GM: “500 Miles Low.” We’ll see. CC: Gayle Moran Corea. GM: We’re going to talk. This one had no warning. Absolutely no warning. CC: I knew you were coming down to theGM: I didn’t bake a cake. No. Stanley that song. Really.
SC: It’s cool. Great story behind that. CC: See if you have sound on that. GM: Hoo! CC: Is it coming out? GM: I just have to say this is a moment, to me of - there’s two trees, two tall, giant, oak trees here. And they’re eternally - these guys are kind of bonded and brothers. It’s such a thrill. I hope you don’t give up duet performances. SC: No we’re just beginning. CC: We’ve been playing duet all night. SC: Watch him Gayle. GM: Leprechaun. [Plays “500 Miles High.”] CC: Thanks for coming down and hanging there with us. Before we end off, real brief, I got this. Alright, I just want to acknowledge Bill Rooney, as our producer, Julie Rooney as our marketing director. She’s around here somewhere. Aaron is our cameraman. There’s Aaron over there. Ingrid is our camera director. She’s back in the room. Nikki is our switcher, she’s back in the room. Joel, there’s Joel, our camera man. Ric is our senior production consultant. There’s Ric! Hey Ric. This is Ric’s set. Thanks for the bricks. The fake bricks. Looks good. Mark is our studio manager. Here’s Mark. Bob Cetti he’s our tech. Bob’s back in the room, I’m sure. Bernie Kirsh. Our old friend Bernie, our audio engineer. Thanks Bernie. Cynthia is our stenographer. Really? Hi! I didn’t even know we had a stenographer. Nick is our assistant. Thanks Nick. And Josh, Josh Greenberg. Josh is my assistant. Hey Josh. So anyway, thanks y’all. Stanley, pleasure. Lets do it again. SC: Yes, lets do it again. Thank you guys for coming out. All you guys in the planet. Thank you. Wonderful music. Create, create, create. CC: Create, create, create, create. Okay that’s it.
