275778447-Retrograde-Planets-AIA.pdf

Retrograde Planets

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Retrograde Planets Sunday, 17 July 2011 - Kannan, Sreenadh OG, Prafulla Gang, Robert Coch, Sunil Nair User Rating: Poor Tweet 0

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[Participants: Kannan, Sreenadh OG, Prafulla Gang, Robert Coch, Sunil Nair]

Kannan: I would like to know something something about Retrograde Planets and their effects in one's life. Today Today,, I have seen a chart in which 3 planets are retrograde. Is there anything special in this. What they signify. Particularly what is the result when Lagna Lord itself is retrograde. I have heard some theories like Retrograde planets in exaltation acts like debilitated and vise versa. Is there some thing more than this. Kindly give your views. Sreenadh: Generally retrograde is considered as good. It is said in Phaladeepika that the planet in retrograde will give the result of exaltation. But there is a cute thing to note. As per texts like Saravali�

The planet in retrograde will give beneficial results all on a sudden ONLY IF it is a beneficial planet.

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If the planet is a malefic, the person will suffer for long, and will have to undertake hard effort even for small benefits and the results would be usually delayed. But of course at the end of Dasa they will materialize.

So in short, benefics in retrograde is good, and malefics in retrograde is bad. Thinking astronomically retrograde is just our assumption and it never happens. i.e the planet is always in direct motion but �

for outer planets since the angle covered by earth (compared to that planet) is more and we will feel that the planet is in retrograde.

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For inner planets when the planet orbits sun (since the earth's orbit is bigger than their orbit) we will have the feeling that they are in retrograde.

[Me not being a proper scholar, the above words may fail to reflect the actual meaning. A pictorial description is better to understand the same] In the ancient texts apart from occasional reference we don't find many slokas that are attributed to the discussi discussion on of retrogr retrograde ade motion motion.. They They some some how seems to be satisf satisfied ied with the general general statement, retrograde is good for good planets and bad for bad. Slokas that describe the retrograde results of individual planets are neither available nor the earlier scholars seems to attribute too much special importance to it. С

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But still 3 planets in retrograde generally indicate the presence of too much opposing conditions in the said mans life, which he would have to over come. But the same also indicate that at the end he will be rewarded with success, even though delayed. Too many planets in retrograde may also indicate that the man is not dependable (this statement lacks textual support)

[Ediror: Form here on the thread branched into two – one lead by Ramdas Rao ji which discussed the retrograde planet karma connection; and other lead by Sreenadh which lead to the discussion of two charts and some random thoughts]

I. Retrograde planets and Past Karma – Possibly an SJC View [Ediotr: Ramdas Rao is the Jyotish Guru of an internet astrology organization called SJC] Ramadas Rao: Rao: Also the Vakra Grahas indicate the area of past life Karmas left out and the person tries to wipe out such debts in this life depending on the lordships and Karakattwas of the houses these planets belong to. Acyutananda Das (To Ramdas Rao): I've also heard this explanation for retrograde planets in western astrology as well. How do we rationalize it? Sreenadh (To Ramdas Rao): Can you provide the authentic quote about the same? Ramdas Rao: Regarding this Vakara Grahas, one of my Jyotish Gurus was explaining in the way I wrote and I found it is working fantastically.Now unfortunately that evolved soul is no more to clarify more about this theory of past Karmas. Sunil Nair: This view of ramadasji ramadasji ,i read from late sri. santhanams santhanams articles articles and i think it holds true,very true,very strong strong desires and unfulfilled unfulfilled areas from past lives lives that carrry forwarded forwarded to this birth. I dont hav any textual references other than this . Kannan (To Sreenadh): Thanks for replying to my query. I am happy that my query initiated a good discussion on the subject. This type of discussions are very helpful for everyone. I request all learned members to continue this discussion. I have one request. Please put some light on "Lagna Lord Retrograde", irrespective of malefic or benefic (Lagna lord is always a benefic, I think). Manoj Sharma: Uttar kalamrit written by Kalidasa also shed some light on retrograde planet. it said when the

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planet is retrograde its effect is reverse i.e. good in debliation & bad in uccha. one of my client has a meena lagna with debliated jupitar in 11th house. he is a spritual head of some sect (sorry i can't give more detail of his sect) after start of ju md he faced a lots of problems like enemy, loss in business, court case & so on. i suggest him to wear a yellow saphire & worship of devi baglamukhi. after that he get some relife. one of my client has 3 retro planets but he is quite rich & happy (so far).

Acyutananda Das: If he is a 'spiritual head' of a sect, why is he consulting you? Genuinely spiritual personalities never consult jyotishis, for they have no need for it, they simply transcend such things.

On Karma Siddhanta

Panditji: Isn't the entire horoscope a mirror onto unfinished karma? If there was no unfinished karma, the native would have achieved moksha. Are you suggesting that retro grahas show a very strong/adridha karma. Sreenadh: Yes, I too feel like repeating your question. 1)

Looking from Karma sidhanta point of view: we are here in this planet in this condition only because of "some unfinished krama or desires from past lives". As you rightly suggests (and I support) "If there was no unfinished karma, the native would have achieved moksha". Thus it becomes necessary to clarify what kind of Karma such as Dridha-Dridhadridha-Adridha; but I don't think that would be enough, because the Dridhadi division has nothing to do with such a thought line. May be Ramdas ji, and Sunil ji can shed more light on the same. [By the way, I will put my comments on the Mercury MD of the mentioned chart in another mail]

2)

There is another real question to be answered - Is Karma sidhanta an orginal component of astrology? We don't have much reference to Karma sidhanta in astrology texts prior to some tests like Leghu Jataka that is ascribed to Mihira (but whose authership is not certain). In Brihat Samhita Mihira wonders; some say that "Time" is the root cause, some say that it is "Karma"; some "Swabhava (Nature of the item)", some "Prakriti (Nature/Earth and environment)", some "God" etc. The wonder `Who is right?' or `Which of these is adopted by (or adobpted for) astrology?' is clearly visible. Normally at the initial stages astrology was satisfied with the philosophy of "Kala Purusha - Prakriti (Siva-Sakti)" combination itself I think. The Karma Sidhanta seems to be an extra interpolation into this age- old philosophy of astrology, possibly after the period of Mihira.

Retrograde Planets and Past Karma

Radmads Rao (To Panditji): Yes, You are correct.The Vakra Grahas indicate strong left over Karmas from past life which the

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native during his/her death might have thought of. For example, in my chart, Makara Lagna whose lord Shani is Vakra and is placed in 9th house ie., in Kanya Rashi while its lord Budha is in 3rd house in Meena Rashi with Guru and Surya.Eventhough I am quite qualified person,from last 30 years, I am working in the same designation.My friends got promotions and are in very good status.But my monetary position is comparitively better than my friends.Almost most of my earnings are being spent for the family and other close relatives.See that Shani is also 2nd lord indicating family.Shani is also Karma Karaka. Also I have worked on this matter.Just check the longitude of the Vakra Graha and see when it becomes direct.Now calculate the number of days from the day of birth till the Graha becomes direct.Now consider one day as one year,so the number of days becomes number of years.For example in my chart, Vakra Shani becomes direct after 81 days,so there will be some long awaiting Karma from the previous life till I complete 81 years of age.This means there are some obstacles in my progress in the life till I complete 81 years of age, if I live up to that age.But I also found out that after about 25% of this total years,some slight increase in my progress in life as some of the debts have been repaid.I also observed that after about 50% of the total years ie., around 1992, a steep increase in my life's progress in all spheres of the life. Now suppose if the person dies before the stipulated years shown by Vakra Graha,then again that Karma will be postponed to the next life. Ofcourse,I have taken a lot of pain in this work and I found some success in this matter of Vakra Grahas.I also request other scholars in this list to check the reality in my work and continue their efforts to get some more deeper connections related to Vakra Grahas. Acyutananda Das: Pretty interesting, any other case studies. I think this would make a great research topic. Ramdas Rao: Thanks for your encouraging mail.So I request other members in this list to do further research in this field.If an Astrologer daily does his Ishta Devatha Mantra Japas,naturally he will get some intuitional powers and he can use such powers to do some research works in such rare fields.Whatever I have written in my previous mails will not be available in any ancient classics and it is my deep devotion to Jyotish has prompted me to take this difficult subject for exploration.Even whatever I did my research is not mine and everything came from my Ishta Devatha only and I just wrote those research studies in these kind of mails.

Backward Aspect of Retro Plants

Prafulla Gang (To Ramdas Rao): So if planet is retro - for example venus is retro in someone's chart and it becomes direct at 25th year of progressed chart. Should we then - consider it direct for the purpose of natal chart analysis. and if so - should we stop considering its backward aspect (for its retrogression) from 25th year? Like wise - if a planet has become retrograde (for example guru) in 15 th progressed year. So after 15th year, should we consider retro for natal chart purpose and aspects (as backward to 12th house).

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Ramdas Ro: Regarding Vakra Shukra what you write will hold good.If Shukra is Vakra during birth time and it becomes direct after 25 days, that means the debts of past life connected with the lordship and Karakatta of Shukra will be almost complete and progress in such areas will improve after 25 years of age.Regarding Guru, what you wrote is not correct. Please try to apply these principles and see the results. Prafulla Gang: Many thanks for clarifications. Quote Regarding Vakra Shukra what you write will hold good.If Shukra is Vakra during birth time and it becomes direct after 25 days, that means the debts of past life connected with the lordship and Karakatta of Shukra will be almost complete and progress in such areas will improve after 25 years of age. Unquote OK. So after 25 years, we need not take backward aspect, while analysing natal chart? OR natal chart must be analysed with venus (R) - I mean for strength/aspect etc except for karmic debt. Quote Regarding Guru, what you wrote is not correct. Please try to apply these principles and see the results. Unquote OK. No - I was enquiring from you. So should I understand that – if guru has become retro in progression at specific age, then its aspects must still be considered normal one - not the backward (due to its retrogression in progression). I look forward to apply these in the charts. Ramdas Rao: As you wrote after 25 years, Shukra will act like direct ie., the obstructions for the house lordship and its Karakattwas will get nullified.If Guru is direct in the natal chart, it is direct only and no changes will be made. Prafulla Gang: Many thanks for clarifictions. Quote As you wrote after 25 years, Shukra will act like direct ie., the obstructions for the house lordship and its Karakattwas will get nullified. Unquote OK. What about aspects? In natal chart it is retro Shukra. So should we cease to look at its backward aspect from 25th year?

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Quote If Guru is direct in the natal chart, it is direct only and no changes will be made. Unquote OK. So irrespective of the fact that guru is retrograding at 15 th year, should we ignore that fact? if so - is it not inconsistent approach to retrograde planets? I am sure sages must have reason to deal with it (like you said), but I am unable to comprehend it as yet. Neelam Gupta (To Ramdas Rao): Thanks for giving us a time parameter for studying the retrogrades. A native has Gemini lagna with 7th and 10lord exalted and retrograde in 2nd house and 8th and ninth lord saturn retrogrades in 6th house. Jupiter becomes direct after 46 days of birth and saturn after 129 days. Does it mean that karmic debts regarding Jupiter will be over after 46 years whereas for saturn they might spill over to next life. The native has a debilitated lagna lord in 10th house with 3rd lord sun. Mars and moon in 7th house and venus is swagrahi in 12th house. Ra is with saturn in 6th house and ke with ven in 12th. I would really appreciate if you could throw some light on the affects of these positions. Also I seek comments from all other scholars on the combination. The native is highly qualified professional but is not satisfied with his progress in life. Though he is very well placed. His birth details are: DOB 3.4.56/TOB 11.30/POB Meerut I will be grateful for all your expert comments. Ramdas Rao: In the horoscope you provided,Guru is Vakra in Karka Rashi.Karka Rashi is the Uccha Rashi for Guru,so as per Uttara Kalamrita,when a planet is in its Uccha Rashi but Vakra it gives the result as if it is debilitated.As this Guru (V) indicates deep rooted Karmic indication,till the age of 46 years his family life and profession will not be prospered or in other words, eventhough he works hard and shows his love and affection towards his wife,and children,he is not getting the same from them in the way he expects.Also eventhough he is a hard working native,he is not happy in his work as he is being neglected in his job.So mentally he is not happy.Just look at Patni Karaka Shukra is with Ketu,the Vairagya Karaka.This is another affliction to his family life.Now from 2002 onwards,there is some relief in his life but there is one more thing is that this Vakra Guru is with Mandi and this indicates that this gentleman is a rebirth to the same family to perform some remedies for the Brahman Shaap which his family might have got 2-3 generations before.A Brahmin boy in the family 2-3 generations before after the performing of Brahmopadesham,died of unnatural death ( might be drowned into water pond or river ? ) and no Kriya Karmas were performed at that time.So this gentleman is born again in the same family to perform the Kriya Karmas for the died person to give Mukti to that soul.Very soon Guru dasa is commencing and he will be forced to perform this remedy. Now regarding Shani (V),he is 8th and 9th lord placed in 6th.Here the long standing Karmic connection is with father which is not completed in this life and will be postponed to the next life ? You can see debilitated Rahu is coming nearer to Shani to swallow him and Shani going away with fear ( Vakra ).Here Rahu can be considered as some enemies trying to trouble his father and is trying to escape from trouble but this gentleman could not help him.Even in his career also,there are some problems from somebody and he has to pass such difficulties. The above interpre tation is of mine and may be different from other scholars. Neelam Gupta:

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Many thanks for your valuable commentry on the chart. I guess you are right about the karmic debts. This native is being thrown into situations for visiting places for tarpan. During the last year only he was made to visit Pushkar and Nasik both. Isn't that quite strange! He was chased by many pundits at pushkar for pitr pooja, but being a non believer, he never did it. After a few months he had to go to Nasik and visited Trimbakeshwar, where he did an exclusive Rudrabhishek, but didn't do pitr pooja. Do you think these visits were indicative of those karmic connections and he lost the chance to perform the pooja. Is there any other remedy for this problem. What will be his Guru MD like. Instead of improving, in 2002, he had to wind up a business of 16 years. although the business was not doing too well, but now its over. His wife is highly educated and into a business which is running extremely well. He is now involved in the same business. That way this person is quite well off. As expected Rahu-Mars dasha chhidr is not good and has given him health problems. Mars as 6L in 7H with marak 2L and aspecing marak 7L Jupiter in 2H is quite indicative of health problems. Please share your views on results of Jup MD, especially JU-Ju. Regarding Saturn, he does not get along with his father and there is a clash of idealogies which is a life-long problem. If you see saturn has given 0 ashtakvarga points in cancer. therefore, last 2 and a half years of saturns stay in cancer were very troublesome for him. I t was ashtak shani also for him. Do you think with shani's transit in Leo things could become better. I shall be grateful if you please give me some more indepth into these areas. Thank you very much Ramdas Rao: The gentleman's Guru dasa will be starting very soon and it should help him.Here the problem is Guru ( Vakra ) became direct at his 46th year and is ready to give beneficial results after performing some remedial measures.But now look at Shani,the Karma Karaka.Guru is the giver of results of one's Karma.So here Shani is Vakra for about 129 years and its half is 64 and half years.His present age is about 40 % of Vakra Shani's progressed years.So starting from this present age, there will be slow developments in his life because he has not started to experience the Past life Karmas and as the age advances towards 60 +,he will listen to the Gurus and will try to perform the remedies and happiness will slowly start in his life.Without performing the remedies,he will not improve in his life as his long awaiting past karmas debts are not worn out. I am still working on this theory. Neelam Gupta: Many thanks once again for throwing light on this tricky combination. Will Guru's aspect on the Vakri Shani give some solace and bring him some peace of mind in Guru's dasha. Shani is also 9th lord sitting in 6H. He has a good life, children, money, wife, etc. but only his professional life has not bore fruits if seen independently. Will wife get to play a role in bringing him professional solace as guru is 7L and 10L. Already since 2004 he is totally involved in the business started by his wife. The native wants to set up his own successful enterprise as his previous one was not successful. Do you think he will get an opportunity to start something in Ju-Ju. Should he try or not try for an independent venture. Also if you could suggest any remedy/remedies to reduce the effects of previous karmas. Your analysis of situation in relation with past karmas has given a new perspective to the results of these planets. I shall be grateful if you kindly elaborate further on this. What is the contribution of debilitated mercury in this combination. Jupiter also aspects the LL mer in 10H. Ramdas Rao: In my 1st mail itself,I provided the remedies he has to perform to nullify some of his past life Karmas.Anyhow after going through his chart and the informations, you gave,unless the Karma Karaka Shani (V) has to allow him to do the remedies,he can not do it.Eventhough Guru's

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Vakrattwa has almost nullified,ie., he is ready to give the fruits of the Past Karmas,the gentleman's Shani is Vakra and atleast 40 % of the total number of years ie., 129 years of Vakra Gati has to complete.At this junction,he has almost completed 40 % of Vakra Shani's period,now slowly he has to boost the native to start the remdies.So to get that readiness to perform the remedies, let him chant the Dwadashakshara Vishnu Mantra : OM NAMO BHAGAVATE VASUDEVAYA daily 108 times morning and evening time.Morning during Sun rise and in the evening during Sun set time.If he is not able to chant the Mantra in the evening,let him chant the Mantra 2 Malas in the morning time.Tulasi Mala is best used for this chanting.In addition to this,let him chant/listen to Shri Vishnu Sahsra Naama Stotra daily. Now regarding the business matters,let us look at his 7th and 10th lord Guru.7th house is his Moola Trikona house and 10th house is his Swakshetra and so 7th house becomes more stronger than 10th house and hence the business connected with his wife will bring him success.Guru's sign lord is Chandra and is placed in Dhanu Rashi.Budha debilitated is placed in a Kendra from this Chandra,so his debilitation gets cancelled due to Guru's sign position.You can see a Parivarthana Yoga between Guru and Chandra.So Guru being 7th lord is more stronger and is placed in Ashlesha Nakshatra ruled by Budha.Also Budha in Meena Rashi is in Revathi Nakshatra ruled by Budha.This indicates he will be successful in Guru Dasa in business connected with his wife.

Textual Reference for Aspect in reverse direction

Pa nditji (To Ramdas Rao): Where is it mentioned that vakri grahas aspect in reverse direction? Is there any support for this? I have also seen some people take the aspect or retro planets from one house behind. I think it is just for after the fact justifications. Unfortunately many do not use these parameters consistently. So they take aspe from one house back when it suits the data, backwards when that suits the data and regular aspects when that seems to fit the known data. Thats why it is imporatnt to have "Pramana", a classical reference for such parameters. Ramdas Rao: Brihat Nadi Astrology by Shri R.G.Rao mentions about the Vakra Grahas aspect from the previous house also. Prafulla Gang: So when retrograde - planet look at previous sign (12th house) or they look from previous sign (so guru retrograde in taurus - so from aries - it will aspect 5/7/9)? Now what happens to guru's aspect from taurus? - should it be considered or not at all. If to be considered ..then will guru influence 8 signs? Ramdas Rao: Yes, 8 signs and you apply and see how it works. Prafulla Gang:

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Many thanks for the clarification. Siam Pacific (Kumar): Well I dont know the which text but my guru used to tell me vakra planets are like you are walking forward but you are glancing behind thus the the drishti will be in reverse order 5/7/9. Prafulla Gang: Many thanks for your note. This backward aspect from its place itself, or from its 12th sign? Siam Pacific (Kumar): The aspect is taken from the bhava itself ,as their is no retro motion ,you are walking ahead with your glance behind you. Prafulla Gang: Many thanks for your clarifications. Sunil Nair: I was waiting for more educated and experienced souls to answer . Your arguement partly coreect for those who mix sistems , yes generaly most schools in vedic astolology dont take a planets rear aspect ,because it is vakri,including kerlala paramparas . But those who use progression and naadi s i find it using regularly .Regrding progression i dont know much .But naadis i find sri K N Rao says its is used in brigu naadi methods --consistently but he has not shared all the secrets and i also find south naadis generaly keep this view .Not as aspect they also presume planet in 12th and its aspects,if its vakri. Regrding textual referenc e i dont know .What i use is my gurupadesa and anubhava.i find its working ,but we shud not mix one sistem with another. Progression technics --some one else will discuss and if some one can initiate its good .

Dopplar Effect and other things

Krishnamurthy Seetarama (To Ramdas Rao): This is interesting. It is for the first time that I am hearing someone confidently talk about the aspects of retrograde planets being different. I will pay attention to what you have said and check it out. As a student of Science, I can understand that there will be definitive difference in electromagnetic force frequency experienced at a point caused by a planet relative in motion from the point of measurement. This effect is called "Doppler Effect" in Physics. To understand what is Doppler Effect, one could look at the following web site: http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/Cyberia/Bima/doppler.html It is clear that there will be difference in the influence of a planet in direct motion as against a planet which is moving away relative to earth. But, the question is how to map "Doppler Effect" of

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retrograde planets in Astrology. What you have suggest could be the answer. More research needs to be done in this area to understand the effect systematically. Panditji: Retro planets are not moving away from earth. They infact are closest to earth when they get retrograde, and the retro speed is fastest when closest to earth. Also Guru affects 8 houses as backward and forward aspects are same houses. If we take aspect from a house behind and take backward aspect as well as forward, then it may affect as many as 10 houses. Do people who propose this take backward as well as forward aspetcs as well as aspect from one house behind? This will make retro planets affecting entire zodiac in a chart. I don't think we are capturing what is really said in classics. Krishnamurthy Seetharama: We are talking about relative motion here. I was talking about the relative motion of the planets causing Doppler Effect on earth. Hence, it is clear that the retro planets behave differently. With regard to how this alters the way we look at retro planets in Astrology, I still don't have a definite view. I am still exploring. Ramdas Rao (To Panditji): I request you one thing.Please check your chart if you have Vakra planet and try to apply this principle.No ancient classics gave a complete interpretation of Vakra Grahas.Just look at when a Graha becomes Vakra, you can see there are many unforeseen events happening in this world.Ofcourse,this comes under Mundane Astrology and experts in these areas can explain about those events.This means when a planet becomes Vakra,there will be a lot of Mundane events in this universe,so will it not affect a human being may be good or bad ??

The boasting and biography of Ramdas Rao

Ramdas Rao (To Krishnamurthy Seetharama): Thanks for your encouraging mail.I am also a science student who completed my B.Sc.in Physics and Chemistry in 1971.But from my young age I was thinking why I am born in this world and what is my job here etc.etc.During my job in 1973, I met a person who was good in Palmistry and he told me so many secrets of my life after looking at my palms.Then I got interest in Palmistry and bought a lot of Palmistry books and learnt a lot from those books.Even then I was not satisfied.Then my Guru at that time told me that if I learn Jyotish, I can explore many things of our life and he said my chart is good to beome a good Astrologer.So in 1984, I started learning Jyotish in Kuwait where I am working now with the help of my Guru Mantralaya Shri Raghavendra Swami Ji.I brought the books of Dr.B.V.Raman and started learning Jyotish and within a year one of my colleage asked a emergency reading and eventhough I am new to this field,he forced me to tell something.I gave a reading which became 100 % correct and turned his life completely.Then I took further interest and studied many classics like Brihat Jataka, BPHS ,Prashna Margam etc.Then I was facinated by Shri R.G.Rao's Nadi books and so I went to him and accepted him as my Nadi Guru.So in that bok, he explained about the Vakra planets have to be

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considered from its previous house also.When I applied, it started giving accurate results.Then I started a comphrehensive study of Varka Grahas and I thought there must be a deep connection with these Vakra Grahas and our long awaiting past life Karmas.I made a deep study on these Grahas and the result I gave to all of you in these mails.I have explained this in SJC's VA list some years before and everybody got interested at that time but after some no further studies in this line.

II. Reto planets – the Classical view Panditji (To Sreenadh): Retrogression is part of chesta bala (One component of shadbala). Planets get retrograde when they are closest to earth. Outer planets that means away from the sun, so they are bright. So it makes astronomical sense as well. I have not seen any meaningful discussion on effects of them in a chart. When you say good planets, you mean naturally benefic (guru, shukra) and bad planets meaning naturally malefic ( shani, mangal) ? Also what about theories floating around of exalted retro is like dbilited and debilited retro is like exalted? Any textual support of this ? Personally it makes not much sense.

Sreenadh: Quote Retrogression is part of chesta bala (One component of shadbala). Planets get retrograde when they are closest to earth. Outer planets that means away from the sun, so they are bright. So it makes astronomical sense as well. Unquote Thanks for a good point. When i said good planets I was just referring to the natural benefics that is - Jupiter, Venus and Non combusted Mercury. When I said bad planets I was just referring to the natural malifics Saturn, Mars and combusted Mercury. Of couse Sun, Moon, and Lagna can never be in retrograde. Rahu and Ketu are always retrograde and any discussion on retrograde does not include them. Quote What about theories floating around of exalted retro is like dbilited and debilited retro is like exalted? Any textual support of this ? Unquote I am yet to see any such textual reference. The usual method (As I have seen followed by elder, traditional and well read astrologers especially of Kerala) is to consider them separately �

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Apply the general retro grade result predicted by text to the planet if it is in retrograde.

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�

If the planet is in debilitation or exaltation tell the result specific to that.

Mixing and matching of both is not usually appreciated (just based on the statement - retrograde plant gives results 'similar' to exaltation). Retrograde is retrograde and exaltation is exaltation. Even though they might be 'similar' in some respects they shouldn't be considered as interchangeable. Yes, personally I too feel that considering "debilitated retrograde as exalted" etc does not makes sense.

Example Chart -1

Robert Koch (To Sreenadh): You wrote:

Quote Mixing and matching of both is not usually appreciated (just based on the statement retrograde plant gives results 'similar' to exaltation). Retrograde is retrograde and exaltation is exaltation. Even though they might be 'similar' in some respects they shouldn't be considered as interchangeable. Yes, personally I too feel that considering "debilitated retrograde as exalted" etc does not makes sense.

Unquote Although these statements garner good logic, experience bears out the opposite to what you've written. Take, for instance, the case of the great Basketball super-star Michael Jordan, who is unequivocally the greatest player in that sport to ever have lived. Note the data for the horoscope for Michael Jordan as follows: Michael Jordan Date:

February 17, 1963

Time:

10:20:00

Time Zone: Place:

5:00:00 (West of GMT) 77 W 56' 42", 34 N 13' 32"

Wilmington, North Carolina, USA Lagna = 18 Aries 55 Aries rises in this chart, with lagna lord Mars debilitated, retrograde, and also afflicted by Rahu. How could a great sports hero have debilitated and retrograde Mars, if what you've written above is correct? In fact, not only is Mars acting as if exalted in this horoscope, but also confers the full effects of Raja-yoga. I will find other examples to reinforce this point as well. Ram Jaswal:

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Regarding Michael Jordan’s chart may I suggest Mars debilitation being cancelled is perhaps more due to its position in Navamsha? Being in 3rd and Own House (Scorpio) if Birth time is as given. Regarding Birth time – do you know how accurate it is? Please share other Charts – I am intrigued? Hasmukhraj Mehta: The Moon, the dispositor of Mars is also debilitated; but both the planets gain great strength because they exchange houses (parivartana yoga). Robert Koch: Yes, you are right, but the over-arching point that I was making was: (1) retrograde, deblitated malefics gain strength, something similar to Vipareet yoga. If they are in angles, then so much more so and they act as if exalted; and if they have sambandha with lords of angles and trines, then they confer Neechabhanga Raja-yoga. This was clearly the case with Michael Jordan, a classic example of these principles. Conversely it is also found that retrograde benefics when exalted give very disappointing results. If they are in kendras, their effects will be neutral. But if in other houses, especially Apoklimas, their results will be as if they were debilitated. Prafulla Gang: Many sports star have debilitated mars (not necessarily retro) Saurav Ganguly (karka lagna - mars deb in lagna) Mohd Azharudin (kanya lagna - deb mars in 11th) Well - I do not have chart data - so other mamebers may share. Sreenadh: I don't think that Mars is the planet alone that makes a sportman; I don't remember reading anywhere the same. Of course Mars is karaka for Wrestling or palm-wrestling, especially when combined with Me or Ve. It is said that Su-Ve combination can give positive results as far as sward fighting is concerned. For batsman I think the strength of 3rd and 11th house (arms) are important. I think the significator planets and houses varies for various sport items. Looking for references to all such possible combinations (for perticular sports) and making an elaborate list could be a big task. Depending totally on Mars for the same would be taking wrong path, not advised by the saints. Prafulla Gang: No - I did not mean to say that mars is karaka or had major role for their success. I just provided two natives, who have debilitated mars and they have excelled in sports. Of course - there must be many more areas of chart to be looked into. If members have the chart data of Ganguly and Azharuddin, then we may look at other contributing factors as well. [Editor: Here the thread branched into two. One continuing the discussion of the sample chart and the

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other discussing the connection between astrology and Karma siddhanta.. To read astrology karmasiddhanta discussion jump to the sub heading “Astrology and Karma siddhanta”]

Exanple chart-2

Krishnamurthy Seetharama (To Sreenadh): You said: "Too many planets in retrograde may also indicate that the man is not dependable (this statement lacks textual support)" Well, my daughter has three planets retrograde. She is about 17 years now. And, I don't see any problems with dependability so far. I am just giving you a data point. In any case, as three planets are retrograde in her chart, I always see it as a roadblock to analyse her chart myself as I don't understand the correct effect of a planet being retrograde. Dr. Charak, in his book, says that retrograde planets cause health problems. Here are the birth details: DOB: 11-Jan-1990 TOB: 20:35 POB: Bangalore I would be interested to know how would be her Mercury MD, Mercury being one of the retrograde planets. I look forward to your comments, hoping that you won't consider my request as a chart reading request. Sunil Nair: As far as retro planets are concerned i also support the view of sri ramadasji ,some unfinished krama or desires from past lives ,depending on karakatwas and placements and lordships.Along with other textual references mercury in her case is in exchange with jupiter and it becomes an exchange of 5th and 11th lords,so i dont think bad for her . Rest u know as a scholar urself .This exchange other wise might giv her good oral skills and may be quest for knowledge and may be various educational pursuits. . Pls clarify, also i invite scholarly comments from sri .sreenath and others. Krishnamurthy Seetharama: Thanks for your kind note. I agree with your observations on my daughter's chart. All three benefic planets are retrograde. Based on what Sreendh quoted, I assume it is beneficial to the native. They becore direct as follows: Mercury - after 9 days

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Venus - After 28 days Jupiter - After 45 days Based on Ramadas Rao ji's calculation: I guess as she is more than 9 years old now, Mercury's retrogression is not an issue and I can assess her Mercury MD considering Mercury as direct. And as Venus becomes direct after 28 days, her delays related to mariage (note 7th lord Sani is combust) would be resolved after 28 years. Please comment. Sunil Nair: According to some naadis venus controlles only quality of married life and mars is real mangal kartha and the bringer of males in a female life ,in her chart it is strongly placed.Also venus vakri showing ,the venus is trying to escape such situation and jupiter being vakri aspecting this combination of venus and also mars.So it shows also devine grace and any remedies in that direction will work . As per vedic astrology 7th lord in 5th may show a choice marriage ,but care shud be taken while selecting.But the 4th lord of family happiness well palced and giving a mahapurusha yoga and in navamsa also as lord is well placed in 11th house and giving its amsa to 7th house in rasi ,so in the long run it will be beneficial --yes may be after natural year of maturity ,if some problems exists will be solved .also venus is 10th lord of profession in her chart. I think 25 to 28 is period of marriage as dasa and various marriage points r triggerred that time in transit also . By the time the great mischief and schemer rahu also will pass transit over her mars ,a special combo applicable to her chart.(during this time care shud be taken while fixing marriage).it will be over may be within 5 to 6 years. All figures i take roughly only ,just to get a rough idea , Krishnamurthy Seerharama: Thanks for your analysis. I really appreciate your inputs. Sreenadh: Your Daughter's chart: 11-Jan-1990; 20:35; Banglore. Query: How the Mercury MD would be? (considering Me is retrograde) 1) Leo

: Asc; Navamsa: Ra

2) Virgo

: -----

3) Libra

: Gk; Navamsa: (Me), Sa

4) Scorpio

: Ma; Navamsa: Su

5) Sagattarious: Sa, (Me), Sa ; Navamsa: (Ju)

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6) Capricon

: Ra, (Ve); Navamsa: Ma

7) Aquaris

: --- ; Navamsa: Ke

8) Picses

: --- ; Navamsa: (Ve)

9) Aries

: --- ; Navamsa: (Asc), (Gk)

10) Tarus

: -----

11) Gemini

: (Ju); Navamsa:---

12) Cancer

: Mo, Ke; Navamsa:Mo

Ayanamsa: True Ayanamsa (Chandra Hari) [Asc is Leo and retrograde Me is in the 5th house with Saturn and Sun. (Me)-Su-Sa is aspected by Ju from Gemini. The 5th house is conjunct between two malefics Ma in Scorpio and Ra in Capricorn. In navamsa even though the 5th house is saved by Ju navamsa, it is hemmed between Su in Scorpio and Ma in Capricorn. Three malefics in 5th house (including Me) but the good point is that the 5th lord aspects the 5th house and the navamsa of the 5th lord Ju falls in 5th house itself. What is the use for the querent with all these? The question is what are the results?]

“Your daughter will have good education, intelligence, good memory, good nature, belief in god, belief in astrology, and an inquisitive mind. No problem in studies but difficulty in getting a proper job. There would be delay in marriage. At the age of 26-27 she will have an affair, and the same could result in a love marriage, possibly against the will of the parents. Marriage will happen at the age of 26-27 and she will have a good house and settled life by 27-28. There would be problems in having children and possibly one or two abortions. Much money would be spend on treatments, and worships for the sake of getting a child. The first child could be a girl. For sure she will have two children, possibly at the age of 32-34. The life is good and every sought after results gained but notice that Me gave those results only after giving all kinds of initial troubles.” Astrologer's point of view: Why these predictions? The 5th is the house of a benefic Ju and the house itself is aspected by Ju, and the navamsa of Ju falls in 5th from natal lagna, in its own house Sagittarius. Su-Me forms the Nipuna Yoga in 5th house. These combinations indicate that the native would be intelligent, having good memory, good education (4th lord in 4th; 9th lord in Ma in swakshetra), inquisitiveness, belief in astrology, belief in god. 10th house from Lagna, Moon and Sun are vacant - indicating that the native will not have a proper job. But of course she may have small jobs for short periods. 7th is the house of Saturn; the Dasa lord Me is with Saturn; 7th house is aspected by 7th lord Saturn (Delay in marriage but the marriage will happen); Age difference with the husband (Sa being 7th lord); 7th aspected by Ma; Aspect of Ma-Sa aspect combination in 7th; Ke Navamsa in

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7th; In short all indicating delay in marriage. The 7th lord in 5th; the 5th house aspected by 5th lord; the Lagna lord placed along with Sa (7th lord) and aspected Ju (5th lord). The native will have a love marriage. Possibly at Me-Su period, i.e. around 2016-17, at the age of 26-27. Mo in own house; Mo Navamsa in Vargottama; 4th lord Ma in own house; All indicating good house by 2017-2019, at the age of 27-29. Good life and wealth. Sa in 5th; Me in 5th; All indicating delay in having children. Me in 5th; 2 Malefics in 5th; Gk in 5th from Ju; Su navamsa in 5th from Mo; All indicating loss of children (Abortion). Ju in 12th; 5th lord in 12th; 12th lord in 5th; All indicating expenses in worship, temples, rituals for having children. Thus a good amount of care, effort and expense for having children. Ju the 5th lord aspects 5th (2 children); Ju Navamsa in swakshetra in 5th (2 children); Ju has covered more than 2 Navama (From Libra to Sagittarius: Indicating 2 children); All the above combinations indicate that the native will have 2 children for sure. Since Ju being the child giving planet here, the native will have 2 children by 2022-2024, at the age of 32-34. Classic quotes Brigu sutra states (If Me is in 5th house)MatulaGandaH MatradiSoukhyam PutraVikhnam Medhavi Madhurabhashi Budhiman Bavadipe Balayute. Balaheene PutranasaH Aputra DattuputraPraptiH Papakarmi MantravadiH [If Me is in 5th health problems to Maternal uncle in Me Dasa should be told. The native would be intelligent, speaking good words, will have a sweet sound, and good memory. There would be trouble in having children. If the 5th lord is weak abortions could happen or the native wont have children. She will adopt children. He will do bad deeds, and will believe in Mantravada, and will know secret hymns] Chamalkara Chintramani states (If Me is in 5th house)Vayasyadime Putragarbho na tishtad Bhavettasya medhartha sampadayitri Budhairbhanyate panchame rouhineya Kiyadvidyate Kaitavasyabhicharam [In the early years she won't have children. She will have good intelligence and wealth. .... ] BPHS states (If the 2nd lord is in 5th)-

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Dhanadipe tu Soonusthe sadartha jana tatparaiH Soonubhi swairyuto jato jayate dhanavanapi [Refer BPHS for meaning] BPHS states (If the 12th lord is in 5th)Vyayese Putrage Jato putrahetor bhoori vyayee naraH Vidya putra viheenascha sada teerthadane rataH [Refer BPHS for meaning] Garga Hora states (If Me is in 5th) Panchamaste chandraputraH santanam Prakarotihi AstamgataH satrudrishtaschotpannasya vinasadaH

[If Me is in 5th, for sure the native will have children. But if debilitated or aspected by malefics then loss of children will happen] The above slokas clarifies that the native will be intelligent, will have a good life, will have delay in marriage, will have delay in having children, spend a lot for the same, but for sure will have children, and will have a good life. What is the role of retrograde planet in all these?! If not these initial delays and beneficiary results at the end, what else the retrograde planets indicate!! As per SaravaliVakropagasya hi dasa bhramayati kulala chakraval purusham Vyasanani ripu virodham karoti papasya na subhasya [The retrograde planet will trouble the native as if in a wheel. It will give sadness and enmity. But this kind of effect should be predicted only for malefics and not for benefics] Dasdhayi clarifiesVakrinastu Mahaveerya Subha Bhagyaprada nrinam Papa vyesanada pumsam kurvanti cha vridhadanam [The retrograde planets are very strong, and give all kinds of good luck. But the malefics if retrograde, gives sadness, efforts without result, and travel (But at the end they too will give the sought for beneficial results)] I hope this long discussion clarifies the results that should be attributed to Retrograde Mercury present in your daughter's horoscope. Krishnamurthy Seetharama:

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At the outset, I thank you very much for spending time to look into my daughter's chart and for giving your valuable analysis. I have some questions/comments on what you have said: Quote The 5th is the house of a benefic Ju and the house itself is aspected by Ju, and the navamsa of Ju falls in 5th from natal lagna, in its own house Sagittarius. Su-Me forms the Nipuna Yoga in 5th house. These combinations indicate that the native would be intelligent, having good memory, good education (4th lord in 4th; 9th lord in Ma in swakshetra), inquisitiveness, belief in astrology, belief in god. Unquote Though there is Nipuna Yoga, note that Mercury is combust. Agree on the rest. Quote 7th is the house of Saturn; the Dasa lord Me is with Saturn; 7th house is aspected by 7th lord Saturn (Delay in marriage but the marriage will happen); Age difference with the husband (Sa being 7th lord); 7 th aspected by Ma; Aspect of Ma-Sa aspect combination in 7th; Ke Navamsa in 7th; In short all indicating delay in marriage. The 7th lord in 5th; the 5th house aspected by 5th lord; the Lagna lord placed along with Sa (7th lord) and aspected Ju (5th lord). The native will have a love marriage. Possibly at Me-Su period, i.e. around 2016-17, at the age of 26-27. Unquote There are two points to be noted here. 7th lord Saturn is combust and Venus occupies 12th from Navamsha lagna. In addition, Venus is retrograde. I guess these will pose additional challenges to the timing of the marriage. Exaltation of Venus in Navamsha provides some respite. Quote Ju in 12th; 5th lord in 12th; 12th lord in 5th; All indicating expenses in worship, temples, rituals for having children. Thus a good amount of care, effort and expense for having children. Unquote Ju is in the 11th and not in the 12th. Quote Ju the 5th lord aspects 5th (2 children); Ju Navamsa in swakshetra in 5th (2 children); Ju has covered more than 2 Navama (From Libra to Sagittarius: Indicating 2 children); All the above combinations indicate that the native will have 2 children for sure. Since Ju being the child giving planet here, the native will have 2 children by 2022-2024, at the age of 32-34. Unquote All this is fine. But, Ju is in Sandhi in Navamsha, very sensitive to ayanamsa. I get Ju in debilitated sign (in Navamsha) using Lahiri. Again Ju is retrograde. Doesn't look good. Isn't it?

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Sreenadh: Please look at the chart using True Ayanamsa of Chandrahari.(46 min more than Lahari). If you are using JHora you can do it easily by setting the Ayanamsa value to be '46 min more than Lahari'. Quote Ju is in the 11th and not in the 12 th.

Unquote Yes, I made a mistke in in looking at the position of Ju. sorry. But still Ju is in 12th from Moon; 6th lord in 5th; Me in 5th; all indicate the same result - and thus that derivation holds. Reagarding other comments – Quote * Even if Mercury is combest Nipuna Yoga holds. * Marriage is timed to happen in Me=>Su. (as per True Ayanamsa) 7th lord Saturn is combust and Venus occupies 12 th from Navamsha lagna. Unquote * Yes, of course 7th lord Sa is combust. But Sa aspects 7th and 7 th is aspected by Ju and Ma (9th lord) as well. "Yapya bhavanti subhekshita" [Even the bad results become hidden and good when benifics aspect the sign]. Further Ve is in 7th from Moon sign, and is exalted in Navamsa. * Considering 12th from Navamsa Legna is not supported by classics. All the aspects and houses should be read from the natal chart itself. Quote All this is fine. But, Ju is in Sandhi in Navamsha, very sensitive to ayanamsa. I get Ju in debilitated sign (in Navamsha) using Lahiri. Again Ju is retrograde. Doesn't look good. Isn't it? Unquote Ju navamsa is in Swamsa (in Sagittarius). Otherwise with 3 Malefics in 5th and with a Ju debilitated in Navama your daughter would not had such good intelligence and interest in education. Further Me aspecting 11th its own house, and Ju significator of elders in 11th, Ju in swamsa: Indicates that she has an elder brother/sister; possibly brother itself. If this is confirmed you can be sure that Ju is in Sagittarius navamsa itself; if not Ju could be treated as having Capricorn Navamsa.

Krishnamurthy Seetharama: Thanks once again for your clarifications. This is my second daughter. She has an elder sister. So, Ju in Sg is the correct position in Navamsha? Sreenadh:

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Yes, it is. Panditji: Two questions. What would the ayanamsha be if we take topocentric position of the moon ? Would the moon parallax bring Lahiri in line with Chandra Hari ? Secondly with this chart, why guru has to be in swamsha to give older sister. Guru in 11 th can give older sibling and guru debilited may give sister than brother. Sreenadh: Quote What would the ayanamsha be if we take topocentric position of the moon? Would the moon parallax bring Lahiri in line with Chandra Hari ? Unquote I don't have the knowledge to answer both these questions. I value the Ayanamsa provided by Chandra Hari only because it is not his own, but the Ayanamsa reflected Ancient Sury Sidhanta. Actually it the Ancient Surya Sidhanta Ayanamsa, based on which the whole 108 Navamsa divisions, signs and stellar divisions as divisions of ecliptic systematically theorized to perfection. Actually I am favor of geocentric than topocentric view (both relative to earth), but my knowledge in such matters is so feeble that I can not comment much on the same. In such situation how can I even understand the question "What would the Ayanamsa be if we take topocentric position of the moon?". May be chandrahari would be able to answer that question -or may be not. I don't know. Quote Secondly with this chart, why guru has to be in swamsha to give older sister. Unqute I think your indication is in the direction that - Capricorn being an even (Yugma) sign should give sister, and Sagittarius being odd (Oja) should give brother. But you should not that my prediction itself was based on a doubt in my own mind, which become clarified with that prediction itself. I will clarify. In the said chart 1) The 11th house is owned by Me; A Sthri Napumsaka planet. [female] 2) Me aspects the 11th house as well; [female] 3) From Moon 11th house is owned by Ve; A female planet; [female] 4) Ve is placed in an even sign; [female] 5) 11th lord from Moon, Ve is exalted in Navamsa in an even sign[female] 6) The 11th lord from Lagna (Me) is placed in an odd sign [male] 7) Ju is only the significator of elder, and not the planet showing the sex of the elder itself.

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As you could see clearly "female" gets majority here - as per "dwi tri samvada bhaval". After seeing all these indications I should have told that she will have an elder sister. But I have committed the usual mistake! i.e. Taking the significator to indicate the sex of the elder sister itself! Because1) Ju is placed in 11th from Lagna. [male] 2) Ju Navamsa falling in odd sign [male] This is a mistake I should have avoided. The doubt was there in my mind, (brother/sister) because I new that I am considering the significator as the person itself, but then with the doubt itself thought put forward the idea (possibly elder brother itself), so that It would get clarified and my doubt would be cleared. And the actual result, as you know, "elder sister". That is why my statement- " my prediction itself was based on a doubt in my own mind, which become clarified with that prediction itself". I hope the point is clear. Ju is in Sagittarius navamsa, just emphasizing the presence of an elder one; and the elder is a female as indicated by Me and Ve. If Ju was in Cp navamsa it should have indicated the absence or loss of an elder one with the navamsa falling in 8th house from the house from Gemini (the house in which Ju is posited). This would have been emphasized by the presence of Ma (6th lord from Gemini) there in Navamsa, and the presence of Ra (incomplete) in Capricorn. Gopu (To Sreenadh): Yourr analysis of the chart is very good with ref from slokas. But the discussion on retrograde planets ur concluding that benefics will not harm. suppose the theory of number of days it was retrograde is applied, in this chart on Jan 20th mercury's retrogression goes of and from 11th it is 10days or 10years of retrogression and the first 10years of Mercury maha dasa may not give the desired results. can we apply this interpretation for retrogrades irrespective of whether it is benefic or malefic? Kindly clarify. Sreenadh: Quote suppose the theory of number of days it was retrograde is applied, in this chart on Jan 20th mercury's retrogression goes of and from 11th it is 10days or 10years of retrogression and the first 10years of Mercury maha dasa may not give the desired results. can we apply this interpretation for retrogrades irrespective of whether it is benefic or malefic? Unquote There is no authentic support from classics for such new born theories. It is better for us keep quite and not to compete with the sages in such matters. I always, as far as possible, go by the reference, and when they are missing - who am I to mislead others? I am a feeble brain, and even after having enough references I may commit mistakes. In this situation how can I state things with out even a proper reference? Sorry I don't know, and i repeat, it is better to keep quite in such matters. If you have some theory or belief regarding the same use it yourself, and if some one else have some let them use it. Who are we to conclude? They might be right, or may be wrong. Where the sages kept the calm, some

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may speak a lot, some one may listen, some one may not - who is right and wrong(!) who knows! But sorry, it is not my domain - because I don't know. I will try to study more about retrograde planets, but you see, I don't even know much about planets itself, least to say about signs and house, and the results of their placement in them. I don't know much even about direct planets, least to say about the amsas they have. What I am trying to do is to be sincere and collect, present, and study what ever I can with my weak brain, which too may go right or wrong. I am not a sage and I don't think I can be. So please don't expect answers from me for every one of your doubts because I don't have answers to many of them. Let us search and seek, and share a pearl when we find one, and let not mistake something else for a pearl. But you see we are all feeble brains - and the mistakes may happen at any time. K.Gopu: I fully concur with ur replies, I raised this query because this was the subject which was discussed in this forum for the last few days. all of us are still in the learning and sharing process. Ur reply reflects ur modesty but for people like me ur knowledge is in depth and looks like acquistion of the same is consistent. Ramdas Rao (To Gopu): If Budha is Vakra and is malefic for the chart,such Budha Dasa till that period will be of evil but after that he may give reverse results and suppose if such Budha Vakra is benefic in nature,the results of such benefic Budha will be very slow and after that period,its benefic results will suddenly doubled. K. Gopu: Thanks for the clarification. Prafulla Gang (To Ramdas Rao) Another confusion. Should not we take natural benefic / malefic to consider vakri planet's result (as most bhrigu nadi sutra does not talk of ascendant driven functional role) for past life karmic debts etc? Ramdas Rao: Now for example,for Karka Lagna, Budha becomes 3rd and 12th lord and hence he becomes a malefic for Karka Lagna.In such case, if Budha is Vakra and as we know Vakra means some kind of obstruction,we have to see in which area Budha is giving obstruction.Here, Budha is the lord of 3rd house indicating communication will be affected till he becomes direct after a certain period of time and also the native may have some health problems connected to central nervous system,ear/nose/throat etc.Also 3rd house indicates younger co-born.So in such cases,either there may be no younger co-born or if born will have some birth defects.These observations can be checked personally.Ofcourse all these informations are my research based,so I request to check the reality of this fact and can improve this theory.I also agree that our Maharshis have not given any such informations in any of the classics and as it is very secret to know about these things and was hidden.So it is our duty to give attention to such hidden matters and study them and try to do some research on such matters. But some Scholars are against me as the Aham is not allowing them to try to check such kind of theories.You see, till now I dont have any website of my own and I thought I can use the

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Astrology groups like the present one which is meant to disperse our age old Divine science of Jyotish.But they are not interested to listen to me and in such case,I feel that I dont have to continue in this list.So I will not be available to this list. I wish everybody best of luck with happy learning of Jyotish. Prafulla Gang: Quote Now for example,for Karka Lagna, Budha becomes 3rd and 12th lord and hence he becomes a malefic for Karka Lagna.In such case, if Budha is Vakra and as we know Vakra means some kind of obstruction,we have to see in which area Budha is giving obstruction.Here, Budha is the lord of 3 rd house indicating communication will be affected till he becomes direct after a certain period of time and also the native may have some health problems connected to central nervous system,ear/nose/throat etc.Also 3 rd house indicates younger co-born.So in such cases,either there may be no younger co-born or if born will have some birth defects.These observations can be checked personally.Ofcourse all these informations are my research based,so I request to check the reality of this fact and can improve this theory. Unquote Yes - I do understand the role of budha for the karka lagna, and thanks for elaborated explanation. and I also do appreciate your personal research. I will certainly explore these pointers. Quote I also agree that our Maharshis have not given any such informations in any of the classics and as it is very secret to know about these things and was hidden.So it is our duty to give attention to such hidden matters and study them and try to do some research on such matters.

Unquote

Appreciate your perspective and agree as well. Quote But some Scholars are against me as the Aham is not allowing them to try to check such kind of theories. Unquote Well, any jyotish scholar obstructing research publishing is not doing a good karma. As far as I look at jyotish, as ever evolving science; and we must look at them with open mind. Best test of any theory (new or old) is in its application in predictive jyotish. if it is working, we must pursue it further and need not be dogged down by contradictions in shastras itself. Quote You see, till now I dont have any website of my own and I thought I can use the Astrology groups like the present one which is meant to disperse our age old Divine science of

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Jyotish.But they are not interested to listen to me and in such case,I feel that I dont have to continue in this list.So I will not be available to this list. Unquote Well, i have been thoroughly enjoying your notes and from my perspective - questioning never meant to obstruct, but a way to clear my own contradictions. In my humble view - you must continue on forums and share your jyotish interpretations / research. and you need not worry about others' objective of forum participation.

Random Thoughts on Karma and other things

Sunil Nair: I think all the basis of astrology is karma and its clearly mentioned in bhagavath gheetha. Yes,all birth is outcome of some karmas and offcourse unfinished karmas,but i know some persons who has all the abilities in purticular field ,but because of fate or some pressures never make it in this life otherwise may be they can out smart all personalities in such field.May be in next birth this deep desire may show in the chart.,all the texts say that vakra graha has cheshtabala and equal to exaltation ,so in which areas of life it may show .Should be according to karakatwas and ownerships and placements. for example- S P Balasubramaniam ,who never learned classical music eventhough belongs to a parampara of musicians and now symbol of south indian classical music in movies atleast -because of him and his voice classical music re established its power,so from where may be he got the sidhi ,should be from past lives ,may be unfinished or un used karma phala Even in physiognomy (face reading ) the vakra planets shows as some deficincy in purticular areas.These days of cosmetic surgery may hide many deficincies. Otherwise which ever theorey we follow in vakratwa of planets ,whether fruitification of years or in nadi --they aspect from behind or chesta bala or any other they are all points to importance to some purticular areas in life,which may fruitify with some efforts . I dont hav any major texts --all i hav is gurupadesa and some reading of general articles from various savants in astrology.With personal experience and anubhava ,i may use or reject it ,thats all. Many of the major text were either corrupted or badly translated or parampara is holding the secrets. We need to take a complete replicable theoreys,which may work atleast in 80% of charts. Even sanskrit is a laungage sansritised(purified) from old indian mohenjadaro harappan (or saraswathy? ) laungage-which resembles to dravidian laungauges ,it was demostrated by one raman and discareded by burocracy of india as it may undermine many theoreys we keep now .(like the scrolls of dead seas-which is old bible-may be original) . Many of the texts and shastras are translated to sanskrit and now like every thing is translating to english as it becomes a official laungage of the world . All shastra india contributed --64 shastras from kamasutra to yoga sutra may be its origin in old

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indian laungage and then sanskritised as india has a undisturbed known history of atleast 10000 years ,even our neighboring china cannt boast of such a vast knowledge with continuous history .Let people say we imported all knowledge .Even kamasutra uses planets to while dealing with some situations-esp the movement of moon .I find all this shastras r inter related and contributing to each other --like a perfectly woven cloth .Whether ayurveda or manthra sastra or tantra Otherwise the d-charts upto nadiamsas 7 planets and 2 chayagrahas and its upagrahas and more than 100 dasa sistems and with dasa phala and timing from trudi to manuantaras --4 yugas ,no where in world .(how can a duplicate outsmart originals ) -One man who has good connection with jesuit monasteries told me he has seen many texts in latin and hebrew of indian astrology --yes he can understand as he was brought up by monks and he himself is a scholar of vedic astology and sisya of sri K N Rao and a european by origin has a differrent profession . This people may say katha sarith sagara or panchatantra stories-we duplicate arabs alf laila wa laila (1001 nights) jaimini uses rasi dasas ,still people says we imported rasis from greece . I am making it short .sorry for my scatterred thoughts I will appreciate your inputs on the same. P.S.: Dear Punditji, why don't you upload some of your good old articles in the files section of the forum. We would all be pleased to have such a recourse available to us. Sreenadh: Thanks for the good mail. Sunil Nair: I was busy after the tour though activ in this forum .Thanks for encouragement. I downloaded all artiles of u in files sections ,I some where read in sidha literatures ,indian sidhas got connection with mayans and some area in america resemebles some names in south shows that connections ,for ex ---appache mountains and appache medu in sabari mala hills and i heard even there is a place called mount sasta in mayan empire( i am not sure) . Even docor karansingh prince of kashmir and politician --says their rituals resembles to hindu s and he also mentioned abt astrology of mayans is it this mayans has some thing to do with maya the mlecha ---or our maya samhita which is a treatise in architecture. sidha litaratue says sidha lands were all part of south including sri lanka which was part and all australia ,the aborigin of australia speaks some similar words in south they claims ,later some natuaral calamities and sea taken over all areas now reduced. again some stray thoughts. Sreenadh: Quote Is it this mayans has some thing to do with maya the mlecha ---or our maya samhita which is a treatise in architecture Unquote There could be. But the India fame Maya (the Asura) was the student of Sage Surya. May be he

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05 02 2013 10 56

Retrograde Planets


could have been a foreigner, who knows! (Mlecha means foreigner, as per ancient terminology) But for sure Sage Surya was a well known indian sage as evident from the many texts attributed to him. Sage Surya is counted among the 18 great acharyas of Astrology. But yes, the similarity between architectural and astronomic contributions of Maya culture and the Architecture and Astronomic contribution of scholar Maya (of India), create such as awesome doubt in our mind. Yes, Maya Mata (Maya samhita) that deals with architecture and Maya Hora that deals with astrology, and Surya Sidhanta that deals with Astronomy are recalled and surge to the top of memory. Also notice that Maya is considered as the architect of Asuras in puranic literature. Who knows what were the games played by time and place, in the history of civilizations! P.S: But for sure know that `Maya' is NOT `Greek' fore sure. ;) [Editor: Cerainly this long multi-layered discussion on Retrograde planets with baranched into many and I found difficult to edit and organize was certainly much informative. Special thanks should go to Ramdas rao ji for leading such an informative discussion] - 0 -

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Retrograde Planets


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sharmila

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18 days ago

my dob is 21/10/1986 at 8.10 am in tirunelveli.female.getting delayed in marriage.can any one exlplain why.having three retrogade planets in my chart.very confusing.can anyone explain. 0

Dinesh

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2 months ago

Really grateful for the learned discussion. I have a retro Jupiter in my 2nd house and a deblitated Saturn with Mars in my 8th. The Lagna lord is combust and debilitated with Sun and Exalted Venus in 7th. Could you please analyse the impact ? The birth details are: 19th March, 1970, 7:50 PM, Chennai. -Dinesh 0

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Umesh BN

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9 months ago

I have retro saturn in my horoscope (DOB: 24-March-1977, TOB: 08.55AM, POB: Bangalore). Saturn was retro for 18 days from my birth date. So for 18 years my life was excellent and after that it is ordinary, even i am jobless when i am writing this post. So what Mr. Ramdas Rao has observed holds good in my case. Regards 0

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05 02 2013 10 56

275778447-Retrograde-Planets-AIA.pdf

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